PAF Air Refueling Capability

[MJaa]

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Air Refueling?

[American Eagle]

Excellent photos and comments.

Here in Birmingham, Alabama, where I am retired, the 117th Alabama Air National Guard flies USAF refueling tankers. Our tankers can carry up to 100 troops if pressed into dual service.

My wife and I have vacationed via free flights with the117th in recent years from here to Europe and return. We appreciate this courtesy extended to all area retirees of all services, not just to us.

The PAF Mirages with side mounted refueling point, if I saw the picture correctly, require good accurate boom operators. Does the PAF have their tanker boom operators trained by the Russian Air Force, too?

Our US Congress is in a knot politically over which contractors to go with to build the next generator of USAF tankers. Since I am here in Alabama I of course favor the constorium of Grumman and European Air Buse while some on the West Coast of the US favor Boeing. Mobile, Alabama will be the assembly plant site if the Grumman team wins out...they won the first competition, then were thrown curve balls by Boeings successful contesting of that award, and now the whole award process is dragging time wise as scuffling politically over the two sources seems to never end!

As for refueling in air making it easier on the aircraft on take off and providng more loitering time this is absolutely true.

Our tanker Wing from here in Alabama periodically rotates to support air ops over Afghanistan. The same considerations apply: Less wear and tear on our ground and sea based aircraft to take off lighter and then pick up fuel in air over Afghanistan.

To be clear, I am not a pilot, but was involved in aerial port management during my career, includindg my 1963-65 tour of duty in then West Pakistan. Young First Lieutenants in my day had jobs made up of a patchwork of additional duties. I was part of the Air Attache Office in some respects; related to but not a part of the USMAAG in other respects; and after the Gulf of Tonkin I received, RONed and passed onward flights of the then new Vietnam War walking wounded. We flew half our transportable by air walking wounded from South Vietnam through Karachi to Charleston AFB, South Carolina. The other half walking wounded flew from South Vietnam via Clark AFB in the Philippines, to Travis AFB in California.

Under the old Air Logistics System during 1963 and into 1964 as a nobody First Lieutenant I controlled all air traffic passing through Karachi and/or going up country to my higher HQ at Peshawar. Control of all air traffic was passed to USAF Military Airlift Command in later part of 1964 thanks to then Sec. Defense Robert McNamara, who died earlier this year, 2010. My primary mission inside Pakistan was support of our Badabur, nearby Peshawar 6937th Communications Group base and all it's tenants, as well as supporting logistically the US Embassy in Kabul via Peshawar/enroute to Kabul. I was as noted elsewhere on this website likewise related to aspects of the RB-57F program with the PAF, but that was not my main mission.

I have to admit I liked having control of all US flights for a while when the system was USAF Air Logistics System (ALS), as I was able to put myself on hops to "check out the routes" to various connecting points to and from Karachi such as Wheelus AFB, Tripoli, Libyia; Bombay, India; then old Burma; and various US Air Bases then in France at Evereaux and Chatereaux (my French spelling stinks!).

Not being a pilot, our USAF flight crews were nevertheless dependent on me over all. I picked them up and took them back out to fly their missions. One senior pilot one wee hours before dawn pretake off briefing with me at Maripur Fighter Bomber Base, PAF, asked me about land markers to help him land at Peshawar PAF Base. I laughed and said "Be sure to swing around K-2, aim "down" into the field, and try not to hit the mountain goats that roam too freely on the runway...and remember, Peshawar PAF shuts down at night, no field lights! Dawn take offs from Karachi provided plenty of daytime flying into Peshawar as all experienced PAF personnel on this site well know!!!

[must7]

Sir,

Respectfully----before putting a plethora of silly and unprofessional posts---if you could spend sometime and read up on some books telling you about flight missions / warfare---you would have not put on paper what you did---. Maybe read up on some fiction on air warfare---.

It is absolutely a poor attempt to show how clueless the poster is about flight missions.

Mastan sahab, while we can understand your reluctance on the issue, however, you do realise that when people started using computers the same reluctance was initially shown by many.

Having said that regarding the issue of refuellers being out of dated, etc. I would like to point out that the super power is against us adding this force multiplier in our systems of operation and tried to stop this acquisition too, now surely there must be areason for which they were trying to stop us from this addition !

[razgriz19]

[Oscar]

Wonder if the PAF gave thought to acquiring PIA's A-310's, giving them a LOTEX and having them converted to A-310 MRTT's. Will it be cost effective though?

[Mani2020]

Wonder if the PAF gave thought to acquiring PIA's A-310's, giving them a LOTEX and having them converted to A-310 MRTT's. Will it be cost effective though?

PIA transfered A-310 to PAF in 2009

PAF had negotiations with EADS to have A-310MRTT but EADS/Airbus insisted PAF to go for A-330 because A-310 was no more in production.

[Oscar]

I was referring to the one's PIA already has but a little search revealed that they have received recent upgrades and so are not an option. Apparently PIA wants to keep its A-310's. I suppose they could look for used A-310's one the market.

The A-310 given to the PAF is the one given for VIP transport and returned to PIA after the Qatari gift.

[Nishan_101]

Do u think that PAF should go for 5 Il-76 and for Transportation role about:
10 CN-235
15 Y-9/KC-390/C-130J (my preference is with Y-9 due to cheaper operating and buying cost as well as its reliability)
15 Il-76 (for heavier role)

---------- Post added at 09:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:31 AM ----------

Do u think that PAF should go for 5 Il-76 and for Transportation role about:
10 CN-235
15 Y-9/KC-390/C-130J (my preference is with Y-9 due to cheaper operating and buying cost as well as its reliability)
15 Il-76 (for heavier role)

[MJaa]

IL-78MP Multi-Role Tanker Transport (MRTT) Will Allow PAF to Strike Deep Inside India


In past, Pakistan air force has lacked the capability to attack Indian air force airfields in Kolkata and Assam which were deep inside India, but with the introduction of tIL-78MP Multi-Role Tanker Transport (MRTT) Indian air force will no long be able to hide its fighter jets and other assets in the Northeast of country as it was able to do in the past.


Pakistani air force has procured four Ilyushin Il-78P Midas Air-to-Air Refueler aircraft from Ukraine.Multi-Role Tanker Transport (MRTT) are fitted with a three-point drogue refueling system and the internal fuel tanks that were stocked up in Ukraine since the days of the USSR.

Main purpose of purchase of the IL-78 tanker/transport aircraft is to support the PAF's future fleet of JF-17s of which PAF is looking to acquire more than 250.

JF-17 Thunder is also being flight tested with both fixed and retractable in-flight refueling probes. PAF will be able to refuel its JF-17 Thunder fighter aircrafts before the end of this year.JF-17 Thunder will carry C-802A Anti-Ship missile with range of 180 Km for maritime strike role to support Pakistan Navy..........................Read More @ Source

[fatman17]

Wonder if the PAF gave thought to acquiring PIA's A-310's, giving them a LOTEX and having them converted to A-310 MRTT's. Will it be cost effective though?

PAF has 1 ex-PIA 310 in its inventory!

Airbus

A310-304
- In service from March 2007

- Note: A secondhand, VIP-configured aircraft was donated by Qatar in March 2007.

[fatman17]

another option!!!

Boeing
707-300
- 3 In service from 1986

[Echelon]

Pakistani air force has procured four Ilyushin Il-78P Midas Air-to-Air Refueler aircraft from Ukraine.Multi-Role Tanker Transport (MRTT) are fitted with a three-point drogue refueling system and the internal fuel tanks that were stocked up in Ukraine since the days of the USSR.Main purpose of purchase of the IL-78 tanker/transport aircraft is to support the PAF's future fleet of JF-17s of which PAF is looking to acquire more than 250.

JF-17 Thunder is also being flight tested with both fixed and retractable in-flight refueling probes. PAF will be able to refuel its JF-17 Thunder fighter aircrafts before the end of this year.JF-17 Thunder will carry C-802A Anti-Ship missile with range of 180 Km for maritime strike role to support Pakistan Navy.

[air marshal]

IL-78MP MRTT will Allow PAF to Refuel it Fighter Jets in Air

In past, Pakistan air force has lacked the capability to attack Indian air force airfields in Kolkata and Assam which were deep inside India, but with the introduction of tIL-78MP Multi-Role Tanker Transport (MRTT) Indian air force will no long be able to hide its fighter jets and other assets in the Northeast of country as it was able to do in the past.

Pakistani air force has procured four Ilyushin Il-78P Midas Air-to-Air Refueler aircraft from Ukraine.Multi-Role Tanker Transport (MRTT) are fitted with a three-point drogue refueling system and the internal fuel tanks that were stocked up in Ukraine since the days of the USSR.

Ex-CAS of Pakistan air force, Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed had said that the purchase of these four Il-78 air tankers represent a pilot project that was intended to introduce this new capability to PAF for the first time. He also said that "We will need to expand in due course when we have greater fiscal availability."

In an interview with the Jane’s Defense Weekly, PAF chief Air Chief Marshal Qamar Suleman said “This is an absolutely new capability we are getting, which we are inducting. We never had this capability in the Pakistan Air Force.”

Pakistan air force’s IL-78 Midas R09-001 aerial tanker took part in High Mark 2010.Remaining Il-78P Midas Air-to-Air Refueling aircrafts are likely to be delivered by 2010.

Pakistan aeronautical complex have upgraded PAF’s Mirage-III Rose-I with refueling kits is of South African origin. Pakistani air force is looking to upgrade 30 Mirage-III Rose-I with refueling probes. For now IL-78MP are being used to refuel the Mirage-III Rose-I but later on these aircrafts will also be used to refuel JF-17 Thunder and Fc-20 fighter jets.

Main purpose of purchase of the IL-78 tanker/transport aircraft is to support the PAF's future fleet of JF-17s of which PAF is looking to acquire more than 250.

JF-17 Thunder is also being flight tested with both fixed and retractable in-flight refueling probes. PAF will be able to refuel its JF-17 Thunder fighter aircrafts before the end of this year.JF-17 Thunder will carry C-802A Anti-Ship missile with range of 180 Km for maritime strike role to support Pakistan Navy.

IL-78 Midas mid-air refuellers will help Pakistan air force increase the range and endurance of its fighter aircrafts. This capability will also allow Pakistan to hit targets deep inside enemy territory by refueling the fighter aircrafts during flight.

PAF operates around 45 F-16A/B that are being upgraded to F-16AM/BM along with 18 new F-16C/D block 52+ that will be delivered by the end of this year. So far PAF is not shown any interest in new conformal air refuel tank system for F-16s to make them capable of talking fuel from IL-78 as its old F-16A/B can’t carry conformal fuel tanks. There are rumors that PAF might buy few old tankers capable of refueling F-16s.

For this purpose PAF is looking at different options which include possibility of purchasing surplus KC-135 Stratotankers from the united States or modifying some old Airbus A310s into A310 MRTTs with help of EADS.

Pakistani air force can use air-to-air refueling

* To support an attack deep inside india on high value targets
* It will allow short range aircraft to be able to strike at long distance
* For the Long range maritime strike capability in Support of PN
* For the high endurance for the airdefence missions especially with introduction of AEW&Cs
* For allowing aircrafts to takeoff with extra payload and refule once in air
* For helping the strike package on their way back if they are running low on fuel
* For suport of overseas exercises

Spokesperson of PAF has confirmed that IL-78MP is a tanker/transport version and not a pure tanker version of the Midas. This means that Il-78MP has two removable fuel tanks installed in the freight hold with each holding 18,230 l of fuel with total transferable fuel load of 85,720 kg.

IL-78MP MRTT can be converted back to the transport role by the removal of the two fuel tanks from freight hold.

These Multirole Tanker-Transporters aircrafts can be used by the PAF as required. This brings another extra capability for the PAF as their Payload capacity is much more than that of PAF’s C-130s.Payload capability of IL-78MP is second only to PAF’s Boeing 707s.

Pakistan Military Review: IL-78MP MRTT will Allow PAF to Refuel it Fighter Jets in Air

[hataf]

and its on pakdefinfo that during conversation with pilot at farnborough air show. he told that jf-17 will have retractable refueling prob

[air marshal]

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Óêðàèíñêèé Ñïîòòåðñêèé Ñàéò - Ôîòî ñàìîëåòà (ID:32404) Untitled Ilyushin IL-76

Óêðàèíñêèé Ñïîòòåðñêèé Ñàéò - Ôîòî ñàìîëåòà (ID:32405) Untitled Ilyushin IL-76