Chengdu: J-10/FC-20 Multirole Fighter Air Craft

[kvLin]

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The price I am quoting is the total unit cost including all possible upgrades (western radars etc etc) I am sure the basic unit cost is still going to be around the original prices quoted.

I understand that,Keys,but still mean it coz the airframe had been priced kinda low (you just guess it). along with Chinese aviation it's 20-25 million, hereby cost performance has been the biggest advantage of JF-17. so I bet that PAF didn't throw bucks as much as you estimate.

[Keysersoze]

I understand that,Keys,but still mean it coz the airframe had been priced kinda low (you just guess it). along with Chinese aviation it's 20-25 million, hereby cost performance has been the biggest advantage of JF-17. so I bet that PAF didn't throw bucks as much as you estimate.

Well the reason why the price has been raised is that the J-10 has "stolen" some of the JF-17's thunder (no pun intended!) Hence the improved Avionics will make the aircraft more sale-able to potential buyers who are looking for a mid-tech fighter. I am sure it would be sold side by side with the basic model for those looking for a replacement for J-7's or Mig-21's. The big bucks are for western Avionics which are going to be fairly costly. Bear in mind a blk52 upgrade for a F-16 costs 26 million dollars (approx)
P

[Interceptor]

can any one tell me what kind of avionics & radar are used in F-10?

Pakistan wont consider chinnese avionics insteads its planning its own desired avionics into the J-10.

[kvLin]

"J-10 will be equipped with indigenous engine in serial productions within 2007", said Luoronghuai,CEO of Chengdu Avaition Corp (CAC) and Li Wenzheng the director of Aircraft Design Institute of CAC that China is speeding up development in the engine area, and in fact the engine (WS-10A) had been successfully developed during R&D of J-10. To be more cautious, CAC was still using mature engine (AL-31Fn) in the past few years. "but what we can be certain of is that the J-10 would have a "Chinese heart in this year."

Source:Yangzi Evening
http://news.xinhuanet.com/mil/2007-0...nt_5974578.htm



China News Agency,Hong Kong
Experts have pointed out that many countries are interested in the introduction of the J-10, made all by China, exports will be free from external constraints.

It has been learned that after acquiring power systems at the core of the third-generation fighter, China's design on further generation fighters will be going more expertly. and starting from the 4th gen fighter (J-14) project, hindered progress by the foot-dragging engine issue will be gone forever,which is the real sense of success.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/mil/2007-0...nt_5981386.htm

[Keysersoze]

While China Ramps Up
China is accelerating the development of its military power on almost every front, particularly in intercontinental ballistic missiles, the Pentagon said in May.

In its annual assessment of China’s military power, required by Congress, the Defense Department confessed to being “surprised� at “the pace and scope of [China’s] strategic forces modernization,� which features several new classes of missiles with ranges that can reach the United States.

Overall, “China’s military expansion is already such as to alter regional military balances. Long-term trends in China’s strategic nuclear forces modernization, land- and sea-based access denial capabilities, and emerging precision-strike weapons have the potential to pose credible threats to modern militaries operating in the region,� according to the report, prepared by the Office of the Secretary of Defense.

The Pentagon said China is the one country that could reasonably “compete militarily with the United States.�

As the Pentagon has noted before, China continues to be secretive about its plans and ambitions and has “yet to adequately explain the purposes or desired end-states of [its] military expansion.� The Pentagon pegs China’s defense spending at between $70 billion and $105 billion in 2006, or up to three times China’s own stated figures. (See “Aerospace World: China Boosts Arms Budget,� May, p. 25.) China’s defense budget has continued to increase by double-digit percentage points annually since the early 1990s, and the Defense Intelligence Agency estimates China’s military budget will triple by 2025.

While its annual defense budget is substantially less than that spent by the US, China’s personnel pay and support costs are sharply lower than those of the US or other Western militaries, allowing most of the expenditure to go toward procurement of hardware.

In the document, DOD noted that China continues to pile up combat aircraft and tactical missiles directly across the Taiwan Strait from Taiwan, which it continues to claim as part of its territory. China frequently practices a wide range of amphibious attack techniques in large-scale exercises, the Pentagon said.

“China’s military buildup appears focused on preparing for Taiwan Strait contingencies, including the possibility of US intervention,� according to the white paper. DOD noted that many of China’s military advances are aimed at being able to “interdict, at long ranges, aircraft carrier and expeditionary strike groups that might deploy to the western Pacific.�

However, the buildup also will give China wider options in “conflicts over resources or territory.� The Pentagon noted that China’s appetite for energy resources—oil and coal—is already voracious, and the military buildup may be aimed in part at “securing� either vital sea-lanes of supply or communication, “or key geostrategic terrain.�

In the Cold War-style showdown with Taiwan, the balance of forces is “shifting in the mainland’s favor,� the Pentagon said. China has deployed nearly 800 short-range tactical ballistic missiles opposite Taiwan and adds about another 100 every year. China has deployed about 400,000 troops opposite Taiwan, or about 25,000 more than last year.

Its new strategic missiles, the DF-31 and DF-31A, are solid-fueled and road-mobile, making them more survivable against a first strike, and the latter missile can cover most of the US. A similar new submarine-based missile, called the JL-2, is in advanced development.

China has deployed more than 700 advanced combat aircraft in the region of Taiwan and is continuing to acquire advanced Su-27 Flanker derivative types from Russia, build its own versions under license, and develop its own indigenous combat aircraft.

DOD seemed to offer a re-assessment of the capabilities of China’s F-10 fighter, which it previously had compared to the F-16 Block 30. (See “Washington Watch: Chinese Military Is Catching Up—Fast,� September 2005, p. 12.) In this latest version of the annual China report, the Pentagon said the F-10 is probably more comparable to the Eurofighter Typhoon and French Rafale, considered among the top three fighters in the world today, after the US F-22A. The Pentagon expects more than 1,200 F-10s will be built, and improved versions—the F-10A and “Super-10�—are in advanced development.

China also is improving its night and all-weather maritime strike capability, although the Defense Department still is not sure if a Kuznetsov-class aircraft carrier purchased from Russia in the 1990s will be fitted for naval use, used as a floating museum, or, as the Chinese claim, turned into a floating casino.

Besides the combat aircraft, China is proceeding with reconfiguring Russian airlifters into airborne warning and control platforms and intelligence collection sensor aircraft. Some 40 Il-76 transports are being bought from Russia, along with eight Il-78 Midas air refueling aircraft.

http://www.afa.org/magazine/July2006/0706watch.asp

[Keysersoze]

China builds a superpower fighter
By David Lague
Published: February 8, 2007


BEIJING: For more than two decades, China has labored to build its first state-of-the-art jet fighter as part of the country's drive to become a leading military power.

In December, it appeared to have closed in on that ambition when it revealed, in an unusual blaze of publicity, that its new fighter, the J-10, had entered service in the air force.

Footage of the new aircraft firing missiles and refueling in flight was shown on state-controlled television, and Chinese defense magazines have published lengthy reports with photographs of the single-engine fighter.

Although specific details about the J-10's performance and specifications remain highly classified, some Western and Chinese military experts say the successful development of this advanced, multirole aircraft could be the catalyst for China to become a leading force in military aviation.

They say that Chinese engineers, with help from Israel and Russia, had refined a design aimed at matching advanced aircraft such as the Lockheed Martin F-16, the frontline U.S. Air Force fighter that has also been sold to more than 20 countries.


"A generation of engineers was put through their major production experience on that aircraft," said Rick Fisher, an expert on the Chinese military and vice president of the International Strategy and Assessment Center, a research institute based in Alexandria, Virginia.

"It has enabled China to create a cadre of experts that will be building ever more advanced aircraft over the next 50 years."

Along with China's successful test of an anti-satellite missile on Jan. 11, the new fighter is further evidence that double-digit increases in defense spending over much of the last 15 years are being converted into sharply increased firepower for the People's Liberation Army.

The introduction of modern aircraft, missiles, submarines and warships over the past decade, along with the increased professionalism of its service personnel, means that China is rapidly gaining the military muscle to match its growing economic clout.

And, according to Chinese and foreign military analysts, its domestic defense industries are steadily mastering key technologies needed to reduce the military's heavy dependence on Russian weapons.

The fanfare for the J-10 was overshadowed outside China by the international outcry over the missile strike that destroyed a defunct weather satellite.

In the aftermath of the missile test, Beijing attempted to allay fears that its military buildup poses a threat to its neighbors or other major powers.

"We do not conceal our intention to build a strong and modern national defense," the deputy chief of general staff of the People's Liberation Army, Lieutenant General Zhang Qinsheng, said in an interview last Friday that was published on the front page of the official China Daily newspaper.

"But," he continued, "we also tell the world candidly that the Chinese defense policy is always defensive in nature."

Despite these assurances, new weapons such as the J-10 are likely to contribute to growing unease, particularly in Asia, about China's long-term ambitions.

The threat from China's mounting air power is most keenly felt in Taiwan. Beijing regards the self-governing island as a renegade province and refuses to rule out the use of force if Taiwan makes any move toward formal independence.

Military experts say the deployment of the J-10 in big numbers will further erode the advantage in military technology that Taiwan's air force has enjoyed over its mainland rival.

On Jan. 23, Major General Wang Cheng-hsiao of Taiwan said that China had so far put about 60 J-10s into service and that these, in combination with China's advanced Russian-designed fighters, would give the mainland "supremacy over Taiwan in the air."

Lin Chong-pin, president of a research institute based in Taipei, the Foundation on International and Cross- Strait Studies, said Taiwan's advantage "is getting narrower and narrower."

"At the moment it is just in balance," added Lin, a former deputy defense minister in the governing Democratic Progressive Party. "If Taiwan doesn't do anything, it will tip in favor of the PLA air force."

To counter the threat, Taiwan wants to buy more F-16 fighters from the United States, but most analysts believe it is unlikely that the Bush administration will agree to this request while the island's legislature continues to block funding for an earlier arms order.

China plans to overhaul its air force as part of a larger effort to modernize its military, according to the defense White Paper that the Chinese government published in December. The document said China would concentrate on developing new fighters while reducing the overall number of combat aircraft.

"The air force aims at speeding up its transition from territorial air defense to both offensive and defensive operations and increasing its capabilities in the areas of strike, air and missile defense, early warning and reconnaissance and strategic projects," it said.

Although the official Chinese media described the J-10 as a "breakthrough" for Chinese military aviation, these reports also suggested that the plane was inferior to U.S. fighters like the F-16.

The Pentagon noted in May in its annual study on Chinese military power reports that the J-10 would be similar in weight and performance to two advanced European fighters, the Eurofighter Typhoon and the Dassault Rafale.

Fisher, of the International Strategy and Assessment Center, says that of the fighters in service around the world, only the American F-22 Raptor, jointly produced by Boeing, Lockheed Martin and Pratt & Whitney for the U.S. Air Force, would clearly outmatch the J-10.

"The J-10 is a significant military capability," he said. "It's a highly maneuverable fighter."

It is unclear how many J-10's its maker, China Aviation Industry Corporation I, the country's most important aircraft manufacturer, plans to deliver to the air force.

Small numbers of single-seat and two-seat versions of the new fighter are already operational and some experts believe up to 300 could soon be produced to supplement the high-performance, Russian-designed Sukhoi Su-27 and Su-30MK aircraft already in service with the Chinese Air Force.

There has been some speculation that the production run could be expanded if the J-10, which is expected to be much cheaper than an F-16, can win export orders from countries unable to pay for expensive Western aircraft.

Prices of fighters vary sharply depending on capability but Chile is paying $60 million each for 10 F-16's it has on order from the United States. Fisher estimates a J-10 could sell for $25 million to $40 million.

The U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency forecasts that up to 1,200 of these aircraft could eventually be built, according to the Pentagon report on the Chinese military.

The publicity surrounding the new aircraft — including interviews with the leading designers — appeared to be aimed at fostering a sense of national pride in the achievements of the domestic defense industry.

For most of the period when the J-10 was under development, the Western arms embargo imposed after the 1989 Tiananmen crackdown meant that China was denied access to American and European aviation technology.

However, while acknowledging the technical advances China has made over that period, most experts believe the J-10 has relied heavily on technology transferred from Israel's aborted Lavi fighter project.

Prototypes of the Lavi, which was similar in capability to the F-16, had performed well in tests but Israel canceled the project in the late 1980s after the United States withdrew financial support.

Elements of its design are evident in the size and shape of the new Chinese fighter.

Fisher and other experts suggest that Israel also supplied the so-called fly- by-wire computer software that controls the aircraft in flight.

And technical difficulties that have long dogged Chinese efforts to build high-performance military jet engines forced the manufacturer to import Russian turbofan engines to power the J-10.

Locally produced engines could soon be available for the J-10 and other Chinese military aircraft, according to some analysts.

Lin, of the Foundation on International and Cross-Strait Studies in Taiwan, and some other military experts believe this combination of borrowed and adapted technology could detract from the J-10's operational performance, at least in the short term.

"This is a potpourri of parts from different countries," Lin said. "Naturally, there will be some limits to its capability. I suspect there is still room for improvement."

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/...ter.php?page=2

[ahussains]

What are the Basic technical diffrence between J-10 /Su 27 / and JF-17 can any one let me know simply

[kvLin]

check this: http://cnair.top81.cn/index.html

[Keysersoze]

What are the Basic technical diffrence between J-10 /Su 27 / and JF-17 can any one let me know simply

Dude just enter the names of the planes into google and do some research......We can't hold your hand through everything....

[khanbhai]

iam confused are we going to buy J-10 or not

[WebMaster]

iam confused are we going to buy J-10 or not

What is confusing you? So far the air cheif has said that the negotiations are being done. So hold it my friend.

[Interceptor]

What is the Unit price for the J-10? Pakistan should consider more than 40 J-10's these planes are very good step forward for Pakistan to make its new Interceptor squad up from they are considerd quite deadly as the report said. Wh doesn't Pakistan trash the F-16's and buy the J-10's instead I say this because if Pakistan needs spares for the F-16 or upgrades its all ways a pain trying to get them. It is better to go for a reliable source like China who will help Pakistan in bad times.

[Keysersoze]

What is the Unit price for the J-10? Pakistan should consider more than 40 J-10's these planes are very good step forward for Pakistan to make its new Interceptor squad up from they are considerd quite deadly as the report said. Wh doesn't Pakistan trash the F-16's and buy the J-10's instead I say this because if Pakistan needs spares for the F-16 or upgrades its all ways a pain trying to get them. It is better to go for a reliable source like China who will help Pakistan in bad times.

Because...

1)PAF has operated the f-16 for years. It will not require as much induction.
2)It is still technologically more advanced than the J-10 currently,which will probably be fitted out with western tech anyway.
3)The cost of 100+ new jets and western tech for it, would very expensive as well.
4) It is better to rely upon more than one source as history has proven.

[mirage_lover]

How many weapon stations and internal payload does the J10 have?

[WebMaster]

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Dude read the whole thread.

And stop looking at your post count.

Weapon station: 11

Internal payload: I dont know. What the heck is that? Does it matter?

http://www.aeronautics.ru/news/news002/news095.htm