Key targets for both sides

[UmairP]

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God forbid and good sense prevails.. however in case Nuclear war happens.. obviously Pakistan will strike first, but just want to know ..how much destruction can one strike bring? Will it be equal to one at Hiroshima? ..meaning one city destroyed..or would it be more?

"Fat Man" that was thrown on Nagasaki had a yield of about 21 kilotons of TNT.

"Little Boy" that was thrown on Hiroshima had a yield of 13 and 18 kilotons of TNT.

Pakistani Weapons have 36-40 Kilo tons of yield ......


You do that math!

[holysaturn]

most imp for us to destroy their economy ports IT infrastructure along with above mention military installation

i think the order is more like.
*runways.
*command and control,radars,early warning systems.
*communication.power lines.
*ammo,feul dumps.
*military emergency production complexes.
*dams(can create multiple long duration problems.

cities can work well without IT infrastructure but without the above neither the military nor the civilian pop can func..sorry but ur frustration abt indian IT cant push PAF into it.but if u r the commander and u like to strike the IT infrastructure then u shud be having gripens(provides the highest sortie generation rates)

[jarnee]

"Fat Man" that was thrown on Nagasaki had a yield of about 21 kilotons of TNT.

"Little Boy" that was thrown on Hiroshima had a yield of 13 and 18 kilotons of TNT.

Pakistani Weapons have 36-40 Kilo tons of yield ......

You do that math!

Hypothetical!!
Okay knowing Delhi which is spread in 50 SqKM radius, would be now 10 times bigger in area compared to Nagasaki.. Population of Nagasaki would be 10 times lesser then Delhi today. ...
Roughly if 36 K ton of yield is generated..i will assume of 2.5 crore of Delhi population at least 50 lac. will be killed on the same day.
How many people died at Hiroshima in August 1945?

So refering to google link.. (87,000) died due to result of the nuke.

36 K tons can make an impact of total Delhi area..i'd say some some bit surroundings also..

Imagine India's response.. which has 120+ Nukes..

[WarProfessor]

Anyhow, Uncle SAM will do his best to stop an all out war between India & Pakistan.

That's probably one of few reason why we sit there and allow you to horsing around like a lunatic. We can use our influence on Pak to persuade Pak not to attack; we can send in our troops to the border and line up our missiles to intimidate Indians. For a permanent peace deal, you have some value. But you better make Pak happy. Or we will be very

[Oscar]

I always suggested a strike on the Bachan's house. that would leave a majority of India demoralized. Then maybe the deol's ..I hate em.
Honestly though. Prime targets are airfields and C3 facilities.

[Hari]

Off-Topic but a nice article

The Consequences of Nuclear Conflict between India and Pakistan

NRDC: The Consequences of Nuclear Conflict between India and Pakistan

[gambit]

i think the order is more like.
*runways.
*command and control,radars,early warning systems.
*communication.power lines.
*ammo,feul dumps.
*military emergency production complexes.
*dams(can create multiple long duration problems.

Runway denial is actually among the more complex to plan and risk filled in execution of war operations.


In order to have effective runway denial to the enemy, very specific points on the runway must be severely damaged to remove the runway operations for at least several hours.

For Kunsan, and I have been there, the F-16 need only half of the runway to take-off.

Runway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Runway dimensions vary from as small as 245 m (804 ft) long and 8 m (26 ft) wide in smaller general aviation airports, to 5,500 m (18,045 ft) long and 80 m (262 ft) wide at large international airports built to accommodate the largest jets, to the huge 11,917 m (39,098 ft) x 274 m (899 ft) lake bed runway 17/35 at Edwards Air Force Base in California - a landing site for the Space Shuttle.[2]

Military runways will be longer than fighters need to accommodate much larger aircrafts. Under combat condition, an F-16 can be launched from the center point of the runway should the other end is damaged.

Further...



Two fighters can fit under the wings of that B-52 and it is wheelbase width of the fighters, not their wingspans, that matters. So if the targeted air base has runways that can accommodate large aircrafts like an airliner, any runway damage must span the entire width of the runway in order to render that part inoperable. Side-by-side take-offs for fighter pilots are standard training and the attacker cannot take for granted that enemy pilots will not be so capable. So if the damage leave sufficient runway width for the wheelbase, keep in mind that in war time, most safety regs will be suspended and, war time necessities will have the pilots take their chances with such a damaged runway. The damages must be considerable.

So the runway denial mission would have the attacking force do severe damages to a runway at multiple points. Air base defense will be in effect, this is their 'home turf' and as they are also aviators, they will know which directions and how many aircrafts can attack a point at any time lest there be mid-air collisions, air base defense will be quite prepared for the attackers. Another important item is the taxiway. Depending on the flightline's layout, some taxiways can be long enough to launch and recover aircrafts. They also must be targeted.

Carry on...

[ice_man]

I always suggested a strike on the Bachan's house. that would leave a majority of India demoralized. Then maybe the deol's ..I hate em.
Honestly though. Prime targets are airfields and C3 facilities.

bachan's might die but i am scared of the deols they might just punch the missile back! infact even with NUKES we should not feel secure because they have SUNNY DEOL & miracle child BOOBY & then whatever is left they got ESHA doing her tadap tadap song!

[ice_man]

@gambit

you are right runway denial is not an easy Operation to carry out....BUT i guess you are discounting cruise missile systems! with smart bombs in an Ariel bombing the pilot is concerned with AAA guns & SAMs he is unable to bomb the runway with as much precision!

but in a cruise missile attack 3 waves is all a runway would need i guess....because the first salvo will try to take out the HARDENED aircraft shelters second one would try to get rid of the control towers as well as depots third would go for plain all out cratering the runways & making them inoperable.


but then again i could be wrong please correct me if i am wrong! waiting to here your reply gambit....if what i say can be or cannot be achieved!

[PlanetWarrior]

bachan's might die but i am scared of the deols they might just punch the missile back! infact even with NUKES we should not feel secure because they have SUNNY DEOL & miracle child BOOBY & then whatever is left they got ESHA doing her tadap tadap song!

Striking at Bachan's house will be useless. He will be deep in Pakistan with Salman wiping out the PDF

On a more serious note I always believe that if you want to destroy a nation then all you have to do is cripple its water source.

[Kamakazi 69]

Very interesting question.

Firstly, as some members have stated in previous posts about blocking ports, I think that is now illegal to do so under international law. Although it could be ignored on the part of the Indians, it could lead to international backlash later on.

Secondly, we must assume that the war, if ever would occur, would most likely happen after a considerable build-up of armed forces on both sides as recent events like Kargil, the 2001 stand-off and the recently after Mumbai. So, it could be assumed that the side to attack first would try to soften the front-line armor cores in order to assure a easier entry into enemy territory.

Other targets would obviously include SAM sites and radar sites although considering they are increasingly mobile it would be easier said than done.

As Gambit has pointed out that it is pretty hard to completely knock out a runway and if we consider that the PAF uses the motorway as a backup runway (not sure if similar measures exist for the IAF) and if we are to assume that especially in the early days of the war, each sides air forces would be stretched pretty thin.

A strategy I thought of (and this is just a very vague one) would be to bait enemy aircraft out for a fight (like in Desert Storm). The loss of aircraft on the part of the defenders could be a real morale loss. The same is applyable
to the attackers.

Just my two cents...

[All-Green]

Striking at Bachan's house will be useless. He will be deep in Pakistan with Salman wiping out the PDF

On a more serious note I always believe that if you want to destroy a nation then all you have to do is cripple its water source.

Do not worry, your country has been working on that most passionately.

[gambit]

@gambit

you are right runway denial is not an easy Operation to carry out....BUT i guess you are discounting cruise missile systems! with smart bombs in an Ariel bombing the pilot is concerned with AAA guns & SAMs he is unable to bomb the runway with as much precision!

but in a cruise missile attack 3 waves is all a runway would need i guess....because the first salvo will try to take out the HARDENED aircraft shelters second one would try to get rid of the control towers as well as depots third would go for plain all out cratering the runways & making them inoperable.


but then again i could be wrong please correct me if i am wrong! waiting to here your reply gambit....if what i say can be or cannot be achieved!

What make runway denial a unique training regiment, oddly enough, is that you are basically attacking the ground...

Explosive force, like pressurized water and electric current, always seeks the path of least resistance and this is why it is far easier to damage and destroy target that are above ground to the point where they could no longer perform their functions, be it a simple house or a complex piece of machinery like a truck or a radar station.



That is the cross section of a typical runway designed and built to withstand an airliner class weight. It is not enough to simply create a few cracks on the overlay. Runway repair crews with the equivalent of concrete patch will have the damages repaired to support fighter-bombers in a couple of hours.

Here is one of those patch...

Asphalt Repair, Concrete Repair, Joint Sealants, Percol Load Bearing Repair Polymers, *** Approved Sealants

Percol Is A Rapid Repair and Restoration Polymer & Slurry for Roads, Highways, Bridges, Airport Runways And Much More. Percol Machine Dispensed Versions are Traffic Ready In 10 Minutes. Percol Hand-Mixed Versions are Traffic Ready in 1 Hour and are great for the homeowner or private concern for the repair and restoration of asphalt and concrete without the expense of hiring a contractor!

Here are some examples of those specialists...

820th RED HORSE
Expeditionary Engineering Division (CEXX)

The Expeditionary Engineering Division (CEXX) is responsiblie for providing Prime BEEF (Base Engineer Emergency Force) and RED HORSE (Rapid Engineer Deployable Heavy Operational Repair Squadron Engineer) total force management. This division validates AF Civil Engineer (CE) military wartime requirements, manages CE Unit Type Code(s) (UTC) equipment requirements. In addition, CEXX administers AF Contract Augmentation Program (AFCAP); conducts 24-hour readiness response operations and provides contingency training guidance and products; develops Silver Flag Exercise Training Curriculum and plans and hosts Readiness Challenge. RD&A (Research, Development, and Acquisitions) consultation and user technical representation, as well as supporting Readiness Modernization activities and CE capabilities enhancement efforts.

Emergency repair of war damage (includes rapid runway repair (RRR), facility repair, and utility repair).

Yes...The USAF do have colorful names -- Prime RIBS and Prime BEEF -- for these units. I get hungry already. The importance of runway war readiness cannot be underestimated given the importance of air power itself. So it is better off to assume that one's opponent will have something the equivalent of the American's Prime BEEF and Prime RIBS units. So in order to render a runway as difficult for specialized repair crews to perform their duties as possible, the foundation of the runway itself must be compromised and that mean the munition should be at a vertical descent with as much kinetic energy as possible to penetrate the asphalt overlay and finally detonate.

BLU-107 Durandal - Dumb Bombs

The Durandal anti-runway bomb was developed by the French company MATRA, designed solely for the purpose of destroying runways. Once the parachute-retarded low-level drop bomb attains a nose-down attitude, it fires a rocket booster that penetrates the runway surface, and a delayed explosion buckles a portion of the runway. It can penetrate up to 40 centimeters of concrete, creating a 200 square meter crater causing damage more difficult to repair than the crater of a general-purpose bomb.

Further proof that runway denial is a very specialized mission requiring unique training if there is a weapon specifically designed for the task. The weapon is meant to be deployed at low altitude, leaving the attacker vulnerable to air base defense, if there are any, of course. The weapon's descent attitude is changed by a parachute to orient it best for penetration and finally a rocket is employed to propel the weapon deeper into the runway's foundation. Unless a cruise missile is able to either perform the exact same task or deliver munitions to do what the Durandal does, a cruise missile salvo is useless as a runway denial attack. At best, only surface cracks will appear on the runway.

http://www.fauntrackway.co.uk/assets...cal%20Data.pdf

Following an enemy attack on an Airfield, the first task is to locate all the damage and plot the information onto an Airfield plan. A minimum operating strip (MOS) possibly 1500m x 15m wide (but dependant on the type of aircraft, payload and ambient conditions) is selected that requires the least amount of initial repair work to restart flying operations.

Note the highlighted. That is not much for a fighter-bomber to use. So if after a runway denial attack, the enemy performed a damage assessment and found he could still launch and recover his aircrafts despite the damages, the mission is a failure. Notice that in section 4 of that source, a 'medium' size crater is estimated to be repaired in about 120 min. Look at the illustration labeled' Airstrike MOS selection'. All those brown spots are bomb craters. See how little runway (yellow strip) is required for retaliatory flight operations.

Runway denial is very risky an operation that unless the attacker is equipped with specialized weapons, that operation may result in loss of valuable air resources with no guarantees of success.

Carry on...

[PakShaheen79]

Dont you think all these important place are protected with Russia imported lethal aniti missile defense system S300. and Israel imported lethal spider multilayer defense system. I heard long back Delhi , mumbai business hub are backed up with S300 defense system and nuclear sites as well.

Did i said who will attack on who's facilities. I just mentioned list of potential targets for both sides. Hope this cleared it up.

[Storm Force]

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Key Targets for boths sides.

IAF has 50-60 air bases versis PAF which has 15-17

Naval bases India has 8 versis pakistan 2

Nuclear power stations india has 17 Pakistan has 2

Excluding army bases command centres missle sites those statistics mean on average PAF has 4 times has many targets to hit with only half the air power.

Also india.s military infrastructure is spread over 4 times the geography. They call this strategic depth.

Does this mean IAF only needs a fraction of the resouces be it fighters or missles that PAF does to achieve the same goal. ?????