Pakistan Air Force Transport

[imiakhtar]

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Cost alone isn't the single determining factor in the choice of modern Airlifter. A-400M is proposed to replace C-130 type transporter because of its increased Payload, Range and Endurance.

The point is Pakistan doesn't need the range or the endurance the A400M offers (needed for force projection). The C-130 is more than capable of carrying a good payload along the North-South axis which is no more than 1000nm at most.

Further, C-130 operating costs are lower as the training and maintenance infrastructure is already in place and there will be plenty of spares in the market for decades to come.

[Nishan_101]

The PAF should have have a fllet like this or not :
10 CN-235
15 Y-9/KC-390/C-130J (as A-400M would be too much expensive to maintain)
15 IL-76
05 IL-78 (as refeullers)

[Luftwaffe]

PAF is very satisfied with what she has in the transport inventory.

China is working on Y-9 Series and than Y-20 is also in pipeline.
So expect the future to better.

C-130s (in future we could be offered C-130J)
CN-235
IL-78
Y-9 if program succeeds
Y-20 if program succeeds

[Super Falcon]

well i think unguided bombs can be thrown off from C 130 just two man's in cargo compartnment throwing bombs from it it can be done

[razgriz19]

guyz we will need to replace our c-130s in future so im pretty sure PAF will probably gonna go for similar size...
i personally think PAF should go for shaanxi Y-9. people say its comparable to c-130J..




Shaanxi's Y9 still waiting on Chinese military to commit

[Mark Sien]

From: Shaanxi's Y9 still waiting on Chinese military to commit

China's state-owned Shaanxi Aircraft has frozen the design of its Y9 transport, but has yet to start building the aircraft due to a lack of orders...

...The first flight of a Y9 transport could be carried out at the end of this year or in 2011, says the source, who adds that the event's timing could depend on when a buyer is secured. Shaanxi had originally hoped to fly the type as long ago as 2006....

Seems like Shaanxi is really banking on securing an order for Y-9 from someone, and PLAAF hasn't yet responded. Of note, XAC is also developing a turbofan-powered medium-lift transport (similar to C-390). I guess PAF has about 3 good options that can replace C-130, the Shaanxi Y-9, the XAC turbofan (25t) transport and the Embraer C-390. We can add the Antonov An-70 as well once available export.

[muse]

The PAF is earning design and manufacturing and management experience witht he JF17, perhaps PAF planners will want to consider a joint venture with the CHinese, Brazilian or and/or Ukrainian, and/or any other design/manufacturing concern, to create a worthy, efficient, economical competitor to the C130 - it's not just the PAF that needs to modernize it's transport/cargo fleet and just as the JF17 and follow on aircraft offer operators a reliable supplier, so the same may be possible for the transport market.

The C130 is a marvelous aircraft and many operators will want to continue using it, however; international geopolitics will effect the confidence operators once had in it's suppliers.

[fatman17]

all PAF C-130 A/B/C/D/Es are being upgraded to the C-130H config. new avionics, radar, glass cockpit, uprated engines which will keep these types flying in PAF livery for another 10-15 years.

meanwhile, the IL-78MRTT is another transport aircraft which the PAF has inducted primarily for air refuelling, with a secondary transport role, however for the sake of interoperatibility, the IL-76 can be purchased for the transport role from Ukraine or even Russia. it is a dependable platform.

[Mark Sien]

Safe bet might be to invest in the Shaanxi Y-9. It is based off the Y-8F600 that PAF will be getting with its ZDK03 AEW&C, so induction should be relatively smooth. In addition, as fatman mentioned, PAF can acquire additional IL-76/78...and I'd also add possibly more C-130s through EDA. Regarding Y-9, I can't say if Pakistan will be capable or even willing to swallow this plane's manufacturing, but it could settle for some co-production deal (i.e. manufacture specific sections & spare-parts).

[muse]

Il76/78 cockpit, for PAF pilots, I would think, rather disappointing and for the airmen working on it's engines I would suspect a similar sentiment - more efficient engines will also see the redesign of the fuel system - it's a machine designed in the early 60's -- now I will testify that it's a hardy ship and that it can be patched up quick and cheap.

I do take your point on upgraded C130, perhaps, given the lag between design specification approval and manufacturing even of components, perhaps 10 years will be sufficient time to evaluate the possibility.

Mark makes an excellent point about co-production of component systems, that will allow other entities under the Kamra rubric, to develop expetise in particular sub-sections.

Anyway, I am a fan of doing the utmost that we can to reduce dependence on Western systems, I just don't see a happy ending to this renewed realtionship with the West.

[khurasaan1]

Yes Pak should go for the co-production of this aircraft with Shaanxi Y-9 ...it must be started now....there is another option with Indonesia too.In Indonesia they manufacture the transport aircraft with the spain and is very good standard...CN 235. They r with PAF too 4in number.

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Ukrainians want a partner in JV for a cargo plane as well as PAF can order more Il 78 or 76 from ukrainian.
Chinese jet aint even developed yet nor its combat proven.
Best bet is IL series !!
OR
Id say 40 million$ for a brand new C-130 aint much.

[fatman17]

Il76/78 cockpit, for PAF pilots, I would think, rather disappointing and for the airmen working on it's engines I would suspect a similar sentiment - more efficient engines will also see the redesign of the fuel system - it's a machine designed in the early 60's -- now I will testify that it's a hardy ship and that it can be patched up quick and cheap.

I do take your point on upgraded C130, perhaps, given the lag between design specification approval and manufacturing even of components, perhaps 10 years will be sufficient time to evaluate the possibility.

Mark makes an excellent point about co-production of component systems, that will allow other entities under the Kamra rubric, to develop expetise in particular sub-sections.

Anyway, I am a fan of doing the utmost that we can to reduce dependence on Western systems, I just don't see a happy ending to this renewed realtionship with the West.

i am not a aeronautical expert, but manufacturing transports and jets is a totally different ball game. i am not sure if PAF is just quite ready for that. even the chinese have issues/shortcomings with their transport design/ manufacturing. most of it is based on russian design / reverse engg.

for the next 20 years, we have to depend on western or east european / chinese sources.

[muse]

Well, I'm no expert in that dept either and I suppose they are different things - The point I was hoping to impart was that we need to look past the West - relations may or not improve my bet of course is that they won't - either way Harakat and Barakat, inshallah.

C130 is a great plane and PAF and commercial fleets need such an aircraft and yet Pakistan can afford so few of them.

On a side note - Fresh Arabian seafood and fruits and manufcatured goods delivered daily in the southern provinces of China and in Central Asia, and returning with consumable and manufactrured goods - bijnis - I likes. It needs an economical, hardy, easy to maintain aircraft

[TaimiKhan]

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Safe bet might be to invest in the Shaanxi Y-9. It is based off the Y-8F600 that PAF will be getting with its ZDK03 AEW&C, so induction should be relatively smooth. In addition, as fatman mentioned, PAF can acquire additional IL-76/78...and I'd also add possibly more C-130s through EDA. Regarding Y-9, I can't say if Pakistan will be capable or even willing to swallow this plane's manufacturing, but it could settle for some co-production deal (i.e. manufacture specific sections & spare-parts).

Y-8F600 or Y-9s seem to be good options.

China has greatly improved its aviation quality and are now looking for exports.

With Y-9 we won't have much of a problem with spare parts and their cost would also be low hopefully, and we can manufacture spare parts in house also if China allows for that.

In coming years lots of air forces are gonna be needing to replace their older transport fleet, and with C-130Js & A-400 costs, not all can buy these expensive toys, they would be looking for something cheap and reliable, which the Chinese can fulfill, and we can become a part of the sales through making some parts in Pakistan or even spare parts in long run.

C-130s, Y8F600, IL-78s can be a good combination for our transport fleet.