Should Pakistan Reverse Engineer Some of it's Older Fighter Jets?

[MastanKhan]

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copy a fighter is not easier than develop a new fighter, the only advantage is less risk since the sample is already work well. for example,in1980's china imported some "black eagle" helicopters from amercian and was very satisfactied with the performance of them. we tried to copy these beatyful babies of course. However, after carefully examined the helicopter, our experts declare: "the manufacture tech and advanced material used in the helicopter is way beyond our ability. even in 20 years we do not have the capability to re-engineer it."
thus, even after almost 30years you still can not see the copy of black eagle in PLAAF, although PLAAF is really like it, even in 2008 year sichuan earthquake,PLAAF still want to buy more from american for the reason of disaster relief

Hi,

Thankyou very much for your post---.

As a matter of fact reverse engineering is more difficult than designing something from scratch.

You have to be of the same calibre or of better calibre to understand the intricacies of design.

You have to get into the brain of the scientist / engineer who designed that object---you have to think like the designer---how he did it and why he did it---why ias the most difficult part.

Now reverse engineering a helicopter is the most difficult part of the problem----.

The first question is----does the rotor turn clock wise or does the rotor turn anti clock wise---that will present the biggest problem---that will basically make or break your research.

[Zakii]

Hi,

Thankyou very much for your post---you got me writing again---

As a matter of fact reverse engineering is more difficult than designing something from scratch.

You have to be of the same calibre or of better calibre to understand the intricacies of design.

You have to get into the brain of the scientist / engineer who designed that object---you have to think like the designer---how he did it and why he did it---why ias the most difficult part.

Now reverse engineering a helicopter is the most difficult part of the problem----.

The first question is----does the rotor turn clock wise or does the rotor turn anti clock wise---that will present the biggest problem---that will basically make or break your research.

But why not just open these aircrafts to study a little? i am not saying they make a replica of these old aircrafts. All i am trying to say is....... open the aircrafts and try to examine some technology and who knows if our local engineers learn something beneficial from it that is helpful in the future programs of PAF. Take an example of the engine for an instance, i know it is not easy to make an engine and as per the think tank members the chinese too having problems making an engine. But why can't Pakistan just open it up and see what exactly is inside? just have a thorough inspection of it, after all that would be retired junk for us so instead of scrapping it for good - give an opportunity to the local engineers to further examine these aircrafts. Who knows if not the bigger parts they may learn to make smaller parts of the aircraft which might be helpful for the indeginious aircrafts in future?...........

Just a thought

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well Ideally the retiring planes should be given donation to aerunatical university programs to restore and integrate new systems into R&D and learning from the systems already on the planes

Also the planes could also be used a targets for testing surface to air systems.

Mirage is a plane that perhaps can be used reversed engineered and upgraded with chinese engines and avionics

The plane's shape is awesome , wicked plane just need a
Mirage Pakistan upgrade

But really I would just invest the old planes into research and training of new graduating students in engineering to learn from the technology and try to enhance the systems on the planes over time

[A.Muqeet khan]

zaki u have taken words from my mouth (or in this case fingers )u see if we do examine it and then learn something even if it is smalll would make a big difference in future i am not saying that u should create a copy no just learn from it and then use the know how by improving the tech u posses

[F86 Saber]

With Re engineering, I think the topic starter meant something like we as kids used to do with our toys i.e using the screw driver and taking them appart to see whats inside.

Re engineering is not so simple, the designers always take measures to ensure that the users are not able to understand the design.

[S-A-B-E-R->]

i suggested somthing similar when i said to compleatly re build mirage cith composit materila and stealthy angles and use it to pop enemy radar and sam installiations in another thread

[peacemaker10]

We can reverse engineer some of our older jets that we are planning to retire, and study them and invest in producing completely indigenous fighters...

Indigenous is the way to go as it empowers a nation and does not make it in reliance to any other nation.

I think Pakistan should reverse engineer it's old fighters so that we can use the learned knowledge from these jets to produce indigenous jet-engines, wings, radars, etc.

And we can hopefully come up with indigenous planes and fighters for the future.

No harm in that. Its a learning process.
But it will be good to reverse engineer say F-16, Mirage or may be JF-17.

[WAQAS119]

No harm in that. Its a learning process.
But it will be good to reverse engineer say F-16, Mirage or may be JF-17.

what do you mean by reverse engineering JF17...

I can only say that "jealousy is mother of Sarcastic Posts"

[F86 Saber]

No harm in that. Its a learning process.
But it will be good to reverse engineer say F-16, Mirage or may be JF-17.

Lolz why do we need to "Reverse" Engineer JF-17 when we already have "Engineered" it from scratch.


First of all can someone explain to me that by re engineering, do we mean re engineering the,

1. The Engine
2. The Avionics
3. The Weapon System
4. The Design
5. The Radar

In which of the above areas do the PAF engineering wing expertise? And Re engineering which of the above components can be beneficial for us for our future projects like JF-17 future blocks?



Lets have a look at which jets do we have and we can Reverse Engineer.


F-6, A5, F-7P and F7 PG:

These jets were provided to us by China and with the extent of our relationship with them, if we ask them they'll give us the technology anyway so no need to Reverse Engineer.

Mirage 3-5:

We already have Re engineered them to an extent in the Mirage Rebuilding Factory Kamra and have significantly up graded them. I don't think they have anything advanced enough to re engineer and use in future.

F-16 A/B

Yes we can Re engineer them but what is the difference of cost between getting them re engineered and getting the MLU?


The only discussable thing would be if we can somehow re engineer the F-16 Blk 52 and may be add some of its components to the future versions of JF-17.

[hataf]

No harm in that. Its a learning process.
But it will be good to reverse engineer say F-16, Mirage or may be JF-17.

joke of the 21 century

[truefriend]

Reverse engineer old cafts for wat?when we are already building a 4th gen fighter?Maybe reverse some tech knowhow(to improve or learn) from F-16 block 52.....for improvement on JF-17 Thunder?

dont strt joking man u making jf17
ohh man u make my day

[Kamakazi 69]

dont strt joking man u making jf17
ohh man u make my day

Congratulations for turning this into a bloody flame war.
Really, well done. -_-

[hataf]

and i personally think that India should reverse engineer the arjun tank and lca tajes:-

[Gene]

If Pakistan can buy reversed engineered fighter jets from china...then what's the wrong in making reversed engineered fighter jets of their own !!!!
But the question is, can they????

This is not limited to only technological issues. It is a clear violation of ones right,which can lead to confront with nations & even might lead to international pressures.
china can sustain these pressures, can pakistan sustain it ???

[zavis2003]

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We can reverse engineer some of our older jets that we are planning to retire, and study them and invest in producing completely indigenous fighters...

Indigenous is the way to go as it empowers a nation and does not make it in reliance to any other nation.

I think Pakistan should reverse engineer it's old fighters so that we can use the learned knowledge from these jets to produce indigenous jet-engines, wings, radars, etc.

And we can hopefully come up with indigenous planes and fighters for the future.

reverse engg means to extractts what is in it

and revese enggnrg of a older thing is making no sense
russia would even give u mig 21 TOT coz it is oobsolete now

as an engineer i think reverse engg needs alot of things which country shoulld be sufficient of