Russia blocks sale of engines for Sino-Pak fighter jets

[Arsalan]

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There is no doubt JF-17 is a good Aircraft but how good it is, time will tell when this will be used against any AC or when this AC take part in some friendly exercise. Comparing this AC with what its adversaries are having is not correct. First of all this is light weight AC so why to compare this AC with Medium weight or Heavy weight ACs?

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i hope we never have to use it against any aircraft...

we are a peace lovning nation and will try our best to avoid war situation with anyone. however if it is imposed on us, really, time will tell how good the JF17 is....

regards!

[Hasnain2009]

PAF should use its JF 17 in an air exercise with some friendly country like Egypt
who are planning to buy it. Then its capability will be known . If egypt buys it then
it is surely good

Do you think egypt has shown interest in JF-17 without knowing its capabilities?

[Arsalan]

Do you think egypt has shown interest in JF-17 without knowing its capabilities?

saying all this, Egypt may well opt for some other US/EU option uder political influence.

for me it is all about the first drop, once we get the first planes sold, JF17 can be a big money earner for us. this is mainly because of lower price and open structure that will be accepting a large number of changes as required by customer. currnetly only the F-16 offer this.

regadrs!

[BATMAN]

Hi, time will tell how good the JF-17 will be. I am more of the optimist. If the PAF can get a decent AESA radar, good BVRs and integrate the WS-13 engine it will be a decent bird. Hopefully, we will find more information once the Farnborough Airshow happens. I am hoping more details about its capabilities are released. I personally prefer this plane over the sanction prone F-16s. Take care.

Once JF-17 have AESA and BVR than it will be competing with F-16 blk-52+
Enough information had been on this thread and there are enough indicators to believe that JF-17 is all set to break records.

As long mig-29 is concerned, it is history now not even indians will buy it any more. I can now safely bet on indian MMRCA, it can be any thing but mig.

Timing of this Russian move indicates PANIC in Russian a/c industry. We have to see this in context with American statements of declaring pressler sanctions a grave mistake and than offered Pakistan F-16 while it was all set to buy FC-20!
panic can also be felt in European a/c industry... they are also mourning.
Inevitable, is on horizon.... it will get even more interested when Chinese AEAS and Engine will be available.

It is also safe to assume that Egyptians have thoroughly tested 'thunder' before deciding in its favor.
it was naive on Russian part to assume, that they could sell migs against F-16 any time any moment!
I think Russian a/c marketing team should be mature enough to ask them self question; why would some body buy mig while F-16 is on offer at more or less same price!? Answer is to get better offer from suppliers, as indians have done by indians!

Therefore, blocking engines of JF-17 have no impact on any thing other than making news, which is an attempt to share credits of an a/c which is beating F-16 all out.

My friends; when any a/c beat F-16 it is news of two centuries and Jf-17 has done it.

[ptldM3]

As long mig-29 is concerned, it is history now not even indians will buy it any more. I can now safely bet on indian MMRCA, it can be any thing but mig.

In this in bizzaro world? India ordered 45 Mig-29K's, while Russia ordered 24, there are also a number of other countries that have ordered or received Mig-29's with in the last several years.

[fatman17]

extract from Jane's for the Chinese Air Force

While it is assumed that the PLAAF will continue its commitment to lightweight fighters for some time to come, it is not yet clear that it will select the CAC FC-1 Xiaolong to provide a multi-role replacement for the J-7. While cost considerations could prompt renewed PLA interest in continued procurement of the J-7, the purchase of 100 Klimov RD-93 engines in mid-2005 to meet Pakistan's requirement of the FC-1 (designated JF-17 in Pakistan) and coupled with reports indicating this could grow to 500, it appears that the newer FC-1 may in fact be the PLA's choice. The PLA is also developing an indigenous turbofan, sometimes referred to as the WS-13, which is believed to be based on RD-93 technology for the FC-1. By late 2005, in response to problems detected after flight testing commenced in August 2003, the FC-1 design was modified to include diverter-less supersonic intakes, new wing leading-edge extensions and a new vertical stabiliser housing for combat electronics. These improvements increased maximum speed to M 1.8 and increased range to 1,800 km. Also, a recently redesigned cockpit makes use of larger multi-function displays and a new HUD. At the 2009 Dubai Airshow a Pakistani source told Jane's that Chengdu will soon be building a prototype twin-seat FC-1 to meet Pakistan's requirement for a trainer and dedicated attack version of this type. Whether it is purchased by the PLA or not, the FC-1's combination of near F-16-like performance with modern multi-role electronics and precision weapons, with an estimated USD24 million price tag, means it is likely to achieve increasing success in the combat aircraft market. Pakistan will co-produce 250 while Egypt is reportedly also seeking to secure agreement for co-production. China is promoting FC-1 sales to Bangladesh, Iran, Lebanon, Malaysia, Morocco and Nigeria.

Long in development, the Chengdu J-10 was the subject of a major Chinese government 'coming out' party at the end of December 2006. With more than 150 J-10s estimated to have been produced by early 2010, Russian sources have estimated that lifetime production of this type could reach at least 1,200, representing a real reversal in fortune for a programme thought to be almost defunct in the mid-1990s. Derived from the 1960s origin J-9 programme, which bore a resemblance to the Swedish Viggen fighter, the final J-10 design combines aspects of the Lavi, F-16, Mirage 2000 and Eurofighter Typhoon. In 2009, Jane's reported that Israel had transferred one of the Lavi prototypes to China as part of its development work on the J-10. In early 2010, it was revealed that early design concepts for the J-10 used copies of the Lavi's engine intake and vertical stabiliser shape. While there was early belief that the J-10 would depend heavily on foreign radar systems and the Russian Saturn AL-31FN turbofan engine, it is now apparent that it features a largely domestic radar, albeit one that is influenced by foreign technology, and will soon use the domestic WS-10A turbofan engine. However, as a hedge against delays in WS-10A development, in mid-2005 the PLA ordered 100 more AL-31FN engines, with Russian sources telling Jane's this number could reach 300. Chinese officials note that the J-10's radar meets a requirement for a detection range of 125 km and it is perceived to have begun its service life with a capability comparable to that of the F-16 Block 30, meaning it will be able to fire active-guided PL-12 AAMs and deliver PGMs. Photos of the J-10 show it to be equipped with five fuselage hardpoints for the carriage of targeting pods and ordnance. In December 2006, AVIC-1 revealed a model of the J-10 equipped with chin-mounted targeting pods and also confirmed that at least one aircraft had been modified with an in-flight refuelling probe.

[Dark Angel]

A really nice read ....gives some clues about the future

[Dazzler]

Hi,

Nabil how are you doing? You know it is mango season in pakistan and it has been close to 20 plus years that I had a real pakistani mango here in the U S---we get those manila mangos---not the same---but better than nothing. You know what----eat a mango for me please and let me know how it tastes. Thanks. MK

Playing with words and making useless assumptions is not my habit. I will send you some mangoes or you can come here by yourself to have a taste. I see things changing for good and do not loose hope unlike some who love to conspire for no apparent reason.

[BATMAN]

In this in bizzaro world? India ordered 45 Mig-29K's, while Russia ordered 24, there are also a number of other countries that have ordered or received Mig-29's with in the last several years.

You have all the right to celebrate a glorified past but mig corp. just stumbled after visualising hopeless future. sorry.

[ptldM3]

You have all the right to celebrate a glorified past but mig corp. just stumbled after visualising hopeless future. sorry.

And you have all the right to use google before embarrassing yourself, i would also like an explanation of how Mig is a "glorified past" when they are locking in new contracts as we speak.

[BATMAN]

So PAF should only replace A-5s with then, why replacing whole fleet of mirages, F-7s and A-5 ? Is PAF not aware of its zero air to air capability and its in adequacy in air to air as per Mastan Khan?

Hon. Mastan Khan is very demanding person and i can safely say it is result of orientation of being living in close perfect world.
Where as in Pakistan things move with different pace and cost.

Dear MK..
I agree on one point; which is if PAF would have initiated western avionics deal back in 2005, today we would be in possession of fourth type of BVR.
Still we didn't knew what holds in future even if we would have done it.

On the contrary i like to highlight one instance i.e. period between 2007-2009 was wasted due to incumbent govt. froze all funds but have you noticed how quickly PAF moved into action and negotiated financial arrangement with China banks! which put JF-17 programme on back on track.
I can also quote another example of PAF leadership when ACM Mushaf Ali mir decided to delink airframe and avionics at quite early stage.
So point is PAF did what they could and where ever they blinked was not technical matter.
F-16 saga of 90's is a product of criminal pingpong of both BB and Sharif corrupt politics.

[Luftwaffe]

mig has financial troubles, it is great to see mig has got orders for 89 new airframes for indian navy, russian navy and mayanmar. ptdM3 I'm asking you malaysian air force is going to retire all mig-29 in next 10-18 months even thought financially stronger why are they getting rid of migs looking else where for a multirole figher jets of which ef-2000 typhoon is a potential candidate as well, thought my bet is on sukhoi su-30 as malaysian are already operating them.
From your previous post, i would say india/russia/mayanmar are the last ones to order mig-29 variants, though not completely dead russian air force will sell some of the older airframes refurbished to third world nations potential customers that could be more for mayanmar, bangladesh or remotely iran in future.

[BATMAN]

And you have all the right to use google before embarrassing yourself, i would also like an explanation of how Mig is a "glorified past" when they are locking in new contracts as we speak.

'glorified past' when market demand was more than supply. otherwise you know how badly Algerians dumped mig in favor of F-16. They returned it with quality remarks.
Many airforces were buying were simply had no access to F-16 or inavalibility of other quality light weight fighter.
I can belive you that mig may be locking into new contracts but appearence of thunder in farnborough have loud message and its display will give a fair chance to the world to compare it.
Why should we surprised if competitors paniced.... but mig made a fatal error .... you need to accept it that mig could have waited until the show is over.... and now, all visitors at show will compare it only with mig-29! not a good sign!
I'm sure french and sweeds would be taking sigh of relief.

[ptldM3]

'glorified past' when market demand was more than supply. otherwise you know how badly Algerians dumped mig in favor of F-16.

When did Algeria operate F-16's? They chose the SU-30.

I can belive you that mig may be locking into new contracts but appearence of thunder in farnborough have loud message and its display will give a fair chance to the world to compare it.

So now you want to make this a vs thread?

[Luftwaffe]

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Not algerians but moroccans chose F-16 with confidence over russian made fighters.