New PAF Base under construction

[Munir]

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The US moved towards JSF/F35 and F22... They do not care that much about earning lots of cash by selling lower levels...

[fatman17]

munir- whats your point?

[blain2]

munir- whats your point?

His point is Pakistani F-16 blk 52s are not that sensitive for the US to keep people and monitor them in Pakistan indefinitely....there is more money to be made selling JSF etc.

[x_man]

Hi

I really don’t see any point here as why US need deploy people to monitor our F-16s.As far as maintenance data (sorities/hours/minor,major occurences etc etc ) is concerned, everything is compiled and a worldover database of all F-16 operators is maintained by Lockheed. They exactly know how much we are flying daily/monthly/yearly. Returns are compiled and sent to manufacturer, so there is no point that you can hide anything.

As far as the operational data is concerned, trust me: they know each and everything. They made the aircraft: we just bought the machine: they exactly know that what it is capable of. PAF or any other Airforce cannot perform a mission for which the aircraft is not equipped or capable of.

[blain2]

That is only one aspect of the F-16 usage. Americans may be concerned, no matter how unnecessary the concern, that some of the munitions or related equipment make it out to some other entity (China as an example). To cater to this concern, they need to maintain some sort of inventory.

Since Pakistan has never done this sort of wheeling and dealing with China (contrary to idiotic reports that a Pakistani F-16 was sent over to China), this should not be a problem even if they want to keep inventory...war time, any or all Americans will be skirted off.....

The restrictions to an extent are not too different than the ones put on IAF's use of the BARS radar on the MKI when dealing with countries other than Russia. Every country wants to protect its intellectual property and as buyers of this IP, you have to play by their rules.

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

PAF also knows what the F 16 can do. That is why they bought it. They took an extensive test drive on this platform. Checked out the support system, accessories and found out what the plane can do for them and what is to be expected of it. Parts are readily available from multiple sources.

In a laymans term what TOYOTA CORONA was to the 60's and 70's in the automotive field, the same analogy holds good for the F 16's in the fighter aircraft field of the western alliance.

As for the presence of american staff on pakistani bases, it is nothing new. Americans presence has always been a part of the package, wherever its aircraft are sold. All countries accept some kind of millitary presence. Pakistan's situation is a little different---we are under the light. So if it takes the american presence here, let it be. Let us take one step at a time. We can't put the cart before the horse.

[IceCold]

So whats with the block 52 that the US is trying to hide why is there all the sudden hype as sir munir suggested US has moved to JSF and F-22, Why are they pretending as if they care much about the tech of the 70's era? whereas we have been using the F-16s for quite a while now. One more question since the current F-16s used by pakistan will also go MLU which means that they after upgradtion will be on par with the block 52 so are they gonna be monitored the same way block 52 will be by the US and also are those planes lacking the digital monitoring frequency too?

[IceCold]

So whats with the block 52 that the US is trying to hide why is there all the sudden hype as sir munir suggested US has moved to JSF and F-22, Why are they pretending as if they care much about the tech of the 70's era? whereas we have been using the F-16s for quite a while now. One more question since the current F-16s used by pakistan will also go MLU which means that they after upgradtion will be on par with the block 52 so are they gonna be monitored the same way block 52 will be by the US and also are those planes lacking the digital monitoring frequency too?

Is there anyone who cares to explain "blain, Xman"?

[fatman17]

i am not a expert on monitoring but this much i know that everytime a new weapon system is inducted, the supplier country sends its military and civilian technicians to ensure that the transition/training is smooth. u will always find these people around our bases, whether they r monitoring or training is up for discussion. also all weapons systems supplied by USA have serial nos based on the US system for the sake of ensuring that they dont get "lost" suddenly.
the USA may have moved on to the JSF/Raptor etc but F-16 blk 52 and beyond is still a technologically superior than anything the chinese have. so they dont want the chinese technicians at our bases to get a sniff of the F-16s.

[IceCold]

i am not a expert on monitoring but this much i know that everytime a new weapon system is inducted, the supplier country sends its military and civilian technicians to ensure that the transition/training is smooth. u will always find these people around our bases, whether they r monitoring or training is up for discussion. also all weapons systems supplied by USA have serial nos based on the US system for the sake of ensuring that they dont get "lost" suddenly.
the USA may have moved on to the JSF/Raptor etc but F-16 blk 52 and beyond is still a technologically superior than anything the chinese have. so they dont want the chinese technicians at our bases to get a sniff of the F-16s.

Thank you fatman sir but my point for asking this question was to actually highlight another issue. In my opinion i think that the F-16s already in the PAF fleet are not under the strict monitoring clause of the US and after they get the MLU upgrade, they will be on par with the block 52. My point is that what is the use of putting the strict monitoring security only on block 52 because pakistan if it wants can let the chinese lay their hands on the current block 15 f-16s in the PAF fleet after the MLU upgradition.

[fatman17]

icecold-PAF will not allow it. it just dosnt work that way. it can create serious repurcussions with the supplier countries.

[blain2]

I concur with Fatman. PAF has not allowed China access to F-16s in the past and neither will it in the future. This is all essentially part of the propaganda to shed doubts on Pakistan's ability to protect the technology transfers in such military transactions in order to make future sales more difficult. So lets not fall for it. PAF definitely participates with the Chinese on mutual defence projects, however the Pakistani side offers its own input, advice to the Chinese on these projects. This is amply evident in the case of buying the F-6, F-7P/PGs, JF-17s and eventually with the J-10s (in the future) from China and the Mirage ROSE upgrade.

[IceCold]

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Well both of you sir have misunderstood my point here. I was saying that what is the use of all this propaganda and strict policy issues on the F-16 block 52, because if we really wanted to give it to the chinese we can still do it not that we are since the current F-16s will go the MLU upgrade, i dont understand one thing that is that they are bringing it under strict security control while leaving the others out. What were they thinking pakistan is a responsible nation and if we were not we could still manage to leak the technology from the existing F-16s after they get the mlu since they are not under any kind of montoring pact.
I always believed americans are stupid and this just proves the point.