Russian Engine Could Boost Chinese Competitiveness

[Black Stone]

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Read the JF17 thread in military aviation, you will get all of the details there.

Thanks, still new here.

[fatman17]

How many Thunders are the PAF getting and with what avionics?

150-200 units.
1st 50 with chinese avionics
others with western avionics (choice of italian, french etc)

[kvLin]

I've been away from PFF for sometime, is there any thread discussing the induction of 30 J-10s for PAF?

[WebMaster]

36 J-10s - http://www.defence.pk/forums/militar...0-fighter.html

[fatman17]

36 J-10s - http://www.defence.pk/forums/militar...0-fighter.html

webby- not much news on this issue. could this be victim to the engine issue too. (russian or chinese). it seems the PAF is concentrating on the JF-17 project for now.

[Proud to be Pakistani]

webby- not much news on this issue. could this be victim to the engine issue too. (russian or chinese). it seems the PAF is concentrating on the JF-17 project for now.

J10 has nothing to do with engine issues the ones used and intended for near future are using AL-31F from Russia........ The chinese engine Industry needs atleast 5 years to completely Mature....... Creating copy of AL-31F might be easy but understanding the technology to its limit is not ...

[Proud to be Pakistani]

J-10 will be coming in next years or so to PAF i suppose with all compatibility options required by PAF...... JF-17 is Pak+China......its not about concentration on JF-17 its ours and we are making/upgrading/formulating it as per our requirements...

J10 is a to be bought plane ....... after required modifications by PAF .......

[fatman17]

J-10 will be coming in next years or so to PAF i suppose with all compatibility options required by PAF...... JF-17 is Pak+China......its not about concentration on JF-17 its ours and we are making/upgrading/formulating it as per our requirements...

J10 is a to be bought plane ....... after required modifications by PAF .......

I am not clear on the meaning or rationale of your 2 posts. however it would be crazy to induct both weapons systems into the PAF simultaneously. this dosnt mean that the PAF dosnt have the capacity for inducting both, it just would be crazy!

[Proud to be Pakistani]

I am not clear on the meaning or rationale of your 2 posts. however it would be crazy to induct both weapons systems into the PAF simultaneously. this dosnt mean that the PAF dosnt have the capacity for inducting both, it just would be crazy!

Why?...

JF-17 Forming the Back bone of Defence and J10 forming the Offensive Punch with F-16......... Is it Crazy?.

[Black Stone]

J10 has nothing to do with engine issues the ones used and intended for near future are using AL-31F from Russia........ The chinese engine Industry needs atleast 5 years to completely Mature....... Creating copy of AL-31F might be easy but understanding the technology to its limit is not ...

In the future the Thunder would be equiped with the Chinese engine, I can't remember the name, but it was mentioned in another thread on this forum, indicating it has been certified.

This would then make this bird a true Sino-Pak bird without reliance on the Russians.

[Proud to be Pakistani]

In the future the Thunder would be equiped with the Chinese engine, I can't remember the name, but it was mentioned in another thread on this forum, indicating it has been certified.

This would then make this bird a true Sino-Pak bird without reliance on the Russians.

I agree to some extent to you that their is a trumpet going on for WS13 but i would say that if it is so then why China has contracted for 500 Pieces of RD 93s...

So i would suggest that JF-17 will be equipped with RD 93s nealy 150 ones will be i think..

[Black Stone]

I agree to some extent to you that their is a trumpet going on for WS13 but i would say that if it is so then why China has contracted for 500 Pieces of RD 93s...

So i would suggest that JF-17 will be equipped with RD 93s nealy 150 ones will be i think..

Probably the 500 contracted was before the certification of the WS13 and the Chinese wasn't sure their domestic engine would be up to the performance.

The Russians could not be trusted in relations to military hardware, an Indian would best understand this.

I think the Indians should rely less on the Russians and purchase from us instead.

Even with that said, we aren't that much better than the Russians either lol.

[blain2]

Come on man

It is a Point Defence Fighter and the F-16 is a multirole Fighter....

JF-17 in PAF will be used mainly as an Intercepter and Air Superiority fighter

No Comparison ..........

Although its not better than the F-16, the JF-17 at least (in contrast to FC-1) is not a point defence fighter in any way. Its as multi-role as they come. The IFR capability as well as BVR and Air to Surface capability give it it consider flexibility beyond what a typical point defence fighter like an F-7 or Mig-21 offers.

[blain2]

As per the requirement of Intercepters....... F-7P and F-7PG are used for Interception for now ......... Mirage III roseI and roseIII are Interceptor Configs and Now with the Entry of JF-17 it will replaces these platforms.......

JF-17 in PAF will be an INTERCEPTOR ..............

Bro,

I think you have these ideas and definitions that are quite mixed up. How do you define interceptor vs any of the other roles that are assigned to the all of the PAF fighters on Air Defence roles?? Even during the Afghan war, PAF was conducting Air Defence CAPs (interceptions) primarily with F-16s, then with Mirages and then with F-6s (in the initial year of the war). F-16 turned out to be the most optimal and suitable *interceptor*..

Also what is an interceptor? Why can't any aircraft with a long range radar and medium or Beyond Visual Range AAMs be interceptors?

F-7 and PGs are used for interception just as the Mirage or F-16 is used in this role by the PAF. All of the PAF fighter sqns undergo training for interception...this is because we do not have dedicated platforms for such roles nor do we have immense resources. Depending on the theater, any PAF sqn (including F-16s, Mirages, F-7s and even A-5s) could be tasked with interception.

ROSE II and III are anything but interceptors. They are equipped with FLIRs instead of an Air Intercept Radar (like the Grifo M3 on the ROSE I aircraft). This means that these Mirages are optimized for Air to Surface roles (Night attack, interdiction etc.)

JF-17 is getting IFR so it can be used in strike roles. The weapons suite to be made available on the JF=17 is quite similar to the F-16s (except that it would not have the ability to carry munitions like JDAMS and JSOW). Otherwise it will have the capability for WVR, BVR, A2G engagements. This means that the JF-17 is a lot more capable than a F-7 equipped with 2 AIM-9Ls and 2 AIM-9Ps for point defence.

[araz]

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I am not clear on the meaning or rationale of your 2 posts. however it would be crazy to induct both weapons systems into the PAF simultaneously. this dosnt mean that the PAF dosnt have the capacity for inducting both, it just would be crazy!

Fatman 17,
I have often wondered about this issue myself and asked this question to many bigwigs in the sister forum. With regards to the timeline, we are not only inducting Thunder ,we are also getting F16 Cand Ds in the same period.even though we have F16s, the Cs and Ds are a different beast altogether. If we start talking of J10s in the same breath, we will have induction of 3 Platforms with its own nightmares.
Iam no expert on AF strategy and plan, but to me, the J10 still reamins a buy for the future. There is another strategic element to this saga. My feeling is that PAF has errected the ghost of J10 to keep the Americans on the straight and narrow, ie "give us what we want or we will get it elsewhere".
J10 in my view remains a bright future prospect, but post 2010-12, when PAF has absorbed F16s and Thunders. Isuspect it will take thaty much time for J10 to mature in any case. Now if the Americans do not play ball, then we might ditch the F16s altogether and concentrate on J10s in its present shape and then develop it.
Interestingly ,courtesy of the highly respected Pshamim on Pakdef.info LM has started looking into integrating AESA on F16 block 50/52. This would be called Block 50++. This was on PAFs demand for AESa on its future F16s. so they have seen the light!!
Comments on my hunch would be appreciated.
Araz