SSG- Special Services Group

[tahirkhely]

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You're obligated to provide such information when you make haughty claims. To 'digest' it or not; is a matter of free will on the part of those who read that information as well as depending on the credibility of the source.

:read:
Oh these are not haughty claims. Actually the sacrifices which were given overshadow the importance of any haughtiness. These are simple events which started to unfold as USSR went on and on with its campaign. Since the military might of USSR at that time was immense, USA preferred covert aid of weapons and munitions. General Akhtar AbdurReman HI(M) NI(M) Shaheed was given a go ahead by General Zia. Both Shaheed.
All these people Ahmad shah masood, Gulbadin Hikmatyaar, Sayyaf etc etc are a living proof of what pakistani commandoes did. As instructors and in pitched battles they proved their mettle.:army:

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

My uncle, he is dead now, was one of the designing members of the pakistani nuclear prgramme. His younger brother was serving in SSG during the afghan war----he would not talk directly but would hint at some successful encounters against the russian opponents with a smile. He was posted in poland in the early or mid 80's. His dead body came in a sealed container which was no allowed to be opened by the family. Rumour has it that the russians got their revenge in poland.

[Officer of Engineers]

While I do not doubt Pakistan had troops in Afghanistan (so did every enemy of the USSR), I doubt that they were at the battalion level. That's too identifiable (and too easily targetted). More likely, in keeping with SOF ops, in brick (4 man teams) to a maximun of platoon (30-40 men)

[Muradk]

While I do not doubt Pakistan had troops in Afghanistan (so did every enemy of the USSR), I doubt that they were at the battalion level. That's too identifiable (and too easily targetted). More likely, in keeping with SOF ops, in brick (4 man teams) to a maximun of platoon (30-40 men)

pakistan did have troops SSG but like you said they were in small groups of 3 , 6 and 8 not more than that at a time and they were joined with the locals so they could not be recognised.

[Officer of Engineers]

General,

Sir, I've got caught off guard with 3 and 6. Then it occurred to me. No radio man. They were indeed one capable bunch.

[Jay_]

Colonel,
so you mean to say that these are need based plattons with reduced objectives? They were mostly used for training and not for direct combat against Soviets?

[Officer of Engineers]

The lack of proper fire assets such as artillery would have restricted them to intel gathering and targets of oppertunity roles.

[MastanKhan]

Hi,
'Engineers' is correct in his assessment.

You know that was a very fearful time. It was not like going into india, where the other guy looks like you and you can blend into the crowd nicely.

Afghanistan was a different place. It was the first chance to combat the "white russian soldier" by the pakistani forces and they didn't step back from the job.
Just the name of the spetsnaz jelled many a knees----but in true combat they were just like any other soldiers. When they got beat up bad, their atrocity level on the local population increased.

Pakistanis have no clue as to how much the old regime russians hated pakistan for its role.

[sparten]

mastan, pakistanis can blend in easily in Afghanistan. Send a sqaud of Pashtuns.

OOE,
Sir, for SSG deployment in the Afghan War (and the Afghan operation in General), you should read "Bear Trap", by Brig Yousaf. He ran the ISI's Afghan desk during the war. Audacious man. Anyways he preferred that for important operartion, military advisors be present. Indeed they operated inside the USSR on a few occasions.
Brig ray has that book, you can ask him for it.

[Officer of Engineers]

OOE,
Sir, for SSG deployment in the Afghan War (and the Afghan operation in General), you should read "Bear Trap", by Brig Yousaf. He ran the ISI's Afghan desk during the war.

I did read it. I think I have it in electronic form somewhere. However, I do recall that the Soviet Army called his book hogwash and detailed some of the ops as being impossible from a physical standpoint, ie, no way a man can walk that far without water.

[sparten]

Yes I remember that from the Soviet Army. Still its the best we have from the Afghan war. Also quite a bit of stuff was classified at that time.

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

It is indeed imposible to walk that far without water, unless someone does it for the first time. Just like the 4 minute mile, just like belly slide down the snow covered slopes of the Tora Bora mountains. Once the pakistani forces got the U S backing during the afghan war, they carried out some deep strike missions into the big bears territory.

[Officer of Engineers]

I don't doubt that there was some missions within the USSR but like everything else in military circle, the achievements are often exergerated, even within the SAS. I know I'm guilty of overplaying things after a wee bit much to drink.

Yes, you may be able to walk that far without water ... but you're in no condition to fight afterwards ... unless you didn't walk that far.

[sparten]

Sir, two points
1) The war was not exactly popular inside the areas of the old USSR that bordered Afghanistan i.e modern day Tajikistan. Is its not possible that the Mujahideen had support there.

2) From what I can gather from Bear Trap itself, the reason the good Brig was sent to ISI is since GHQ wanted a military man incharge of the OPS there. Would he have not seen to whatever was needed.

3) The Sovs are not exactly know to flaunt or even accept their failures are they?


Though I doubt SSG were used unless it was extremely important, the strategic fallout of having a captured Pakistani army man inside the USSR were too great to contemplate.

[Officer of Engineers]

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Sir, two points
1) The war was not exactly popular inside the areas of the old USSR that bordered Afghanistan i.e modern day Tajikistan. Is its not possible that the Mujahideen had support there.

Not very. I don't doubt that there was some sympathy but by and large, the Tajikistani Regiments did most of the fighting in Afghanistan and most of the winning. Also, they had a Civil War there not too long ago. The Tajiks called it an Incursion from Afghanistan and they repulsed the Islamic Factions.

2) From what I can gather from Bear Trap itself, the reason the good Brig was sent to ISI is since GHQ wanted a military man incharge of the OPS there. Would he have not seen to whatever was needed.

He was not the one on the ground. He accepts reports from the people on the ground.

3) The Sovs are not exactly know to flaunt or even accept their failures are they?

I do agree but after reading BRAVO TWO ZERO and things I found hard to accept, I find it quite amusing that a former SAS did retrace that mission and talked to Iraqis involved. Let's just say that the author embelished alot.

Here's the situation. Men on the ground under constant pressure will mistake distance travel and time spent. That is just human nature. You can't exactly be measuring distance travelled exactly when your eyes are looking for bad guys. Especially back then with none of the modern GPS stuff.

In the case of BRAVO TWO ZERO, Andy mistaken a farmer with an old shotgun for an Iraqi patrol. The SAS man who interviewed the farmer (who happens to be an Iran-Iraq War veteran) said that there was no firefight. Andy just fired two shots and ran away. The farmer figured since he was running away, there's no point in pursueing this.

Though I doubt SSG were used unless it was extremely important, the strategic fallout of having a captured Pakistani army man inside the USSR were too great to contemplate.

I'm sure they would have cover stories. However, the primary point would be not to get caught.