Pakistan Military Officer Pay Scale/Recruitment

[x_man]

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Sir X_man:
Request initiate ignore mode, please. Let's not feed the troll.

You already have given him enough masala, if he has an iota of shame he would refrain from stupid remarks. Let's chill.

How's this for a change:
Sir get a seat for me in the next C-130

Thanks Xeric. It was my last post to him , exams coming up next week so will get busy with them anyway.

Yaar C-130 walay kissi ki baat nahin suntay...But do PM me whenever you need to travel and I hope I should be able to help you with seats while I am still in Pakistan for another month or so ...

[dk33]

You bastard, Idiot tera **** who brought you in this world and that's what PMA taught you, shame on you, that's how you treat your soldiers too, no wonder why your ***** were kicked by indian army, chullu bher pani mein doob maru

To the other members - the agenda and virulent anti-military mindset of this individual is pretty clear.

Please don't engage with trolls like these, just report them.

With alleged countrymen like these, who needs enemies.

[dk33]

@All members

There is one thing I fail to understand. Whenever somebody in this forum, tries to point out something wrong about some Military setup, a "Military Professional" comes in storming, loaded with bombs and missiles, full of anger, and starts making rude and abusive remarks.

The problem here is not the fact that you wish to have a discourse over perceived problems in the structure of the armed forces, but in the manner with which such discussion take place.

I pointed out to you in the other thread that derogatory generalizations about all pilots, such as 'having stiff necks, arrogant etc.' are not conducive to having a discussion.

It would be like me saying all lawyers are POS, liars and scumbags - what exactly would you feel like discussing with me after I said something like that?

Sonicboom's comments have been similarly offensive and derogatory generalizations about Army & AF officers, and he was just not prepared to listen to the other side of the story. Xeric offered valid counter arguments to the points raised by Irfan Hussain's column, but SB was more interested in continuing to rant against Army officers instead of trying to argue why Xeric's points were invalid.

That's not the point of discussion - you come with certain perceptions on an issue - you elucidate your views, and you listen to responses and try to validate your own POV, or accept that the other side might be correct on some issues.

The original purpose of the thread is buried under loads of anger, and what is left is an apparent fight between Military Professionals and other members.

The fight is not between MP's and other members - I am not an MP, and I find SB's arguments and tone disrespectful and full of broad generalizations.

The purpose of threads are not at all aimed to disrespect the military. They are just simple questions rising in the minds of common people, and if military professionals are present here, we expect cool and logical replies, and we will go home the happiest people on earth.

If that truly is the intention, then not making comments such as 'officers treat the Jawan's like animals, are real estate agents, can't fight, are stiffed necked and arrogant', would be a good start from your side to show that intention.

Right now the impression I get is that some people are joining these arguments not for the sake of discourse (in which there is give and take) but to merely rant about their preconceived opinions on the military.

Xeric has explained the pay structure, the way plots are allotted, the down payments, the 'discounts' etc to the best of his abilities - one would expect then that those on the opposing side would address his clarifications, instead of just continuing to rant about 'real estate agents' and 'treating their jawaan's like animals'.

I have read almost every single one of Xeric's posts on this forum, and his expressed sentiments for those serving under him are indicative of compassion and caring, hardly the abusive slave driver PA officers are being made out to be by SB.

What is so wrong in saying something about the Military, that may have been going on wrong? Why dont we get plain, logical anger-less replies?.

Again, the issue is not about pointing out what you think is wrong, but listening to the other sides explanation, and then trying to factually and logically point out why that explanation is wrong, and not spewing pejoratives.

[facinated]

Agnostic Muslim

No Sir:

I will not do that. I consider any further discussion with him closed. I replied until he kept his temper in control (please go back and look again). Honestly, the man even does not deserve to be called an officer. Did you read the following in his posts:

Ok how that fu** would .....
You are an idiot!

I hope you did. And to substantiate my original points, I just posted proof and facts from the media that you deleted.

And lastly I don't have any agenda against the Pakistan Military. I love the Military except those who are plundering my home land day and night and are responsible for the current misery. Long Live Pakistan
Wasalam

[Xeric]

Agnostic Muslim

No Sir:

I will not do that. I consider any further discussion with him closed. I replied until he kept his temper in control (please go back and look again). Honestly, the man even does not deserve to be called an officer. Did you read the following in his posts:

Ok how that fu** would .....
You are an idiot!

I hope you did. And to substantiate my original points, I just posted proof and facts from the media that you deleted.

Wasalam

You should be thankful that i censored the word!

[qsaark]

I will not take sides here. But it is a valid complaint that unfortunately Xaric (and couple of others) does use abusive language from time to time, and apparently his abusive language is always ignored by the Mods. Right he may be, but no one should be allowed to use abusive language no matter what. His most recent sentence "You should be thankful that I censored the word!" is nothing but defiance of high level. Letting go somebody with abusive language (because he is an MP or whatever) and warning or banning others does not set a good precedence.

[dk33]

Agnostic Muslim

No Sir:

I will not do that. I consider any further discussion with him closed.

Fair enough.

Xeric,

Could you please refrain from the 'idiot' etc. comments, while SB and others shall refrain from making derogatory comments such as the ones I mentioned in my previous posts.

Please trust the moderators to make the right decision in terms of censuring unnecessary pejoratives directed at the military, other posters from here on out.

Facinated/SB,

I will un ban your SB ID and ban the facinated one, provided you do not go down the previous route, and try to factually address the rebuttals posted by Xeric.

In addition, instead of posting long articles that often use anecdotal accounts to make rants (such as Irfan Hussain's whole tirade over a 'friend of a friend' visiting a general or whatever, whose waiters were trained at a '5 star hotel'), pick concrete and factual issues of complaint.

Discounts, plots, etc. (as part of 'compensation' are legitimate issues in the context of this thread.).

Please address the clarifications attempted by Xeric, instead of posting ore unrelated articles that rant more than argue factually.

Everyone, remain civil, and ignore the other side if the same behavior occurs again, and the mods will address the issue.

[Xeric]

Agno point noted!

I will not take sides here. But it is a valid complaint that unfortunately Xaric (and couple of others) does use abusive language from time to time, and apparently his abusive language is always ignored by the Mods. Right he may be, but no one should be allowed to use abusive language no matter what. His most recent sentence "You should be thankful that I censored the word!" is nothing but defiance of high level. Letting go somebody with abusive language (because he is an MP or whatever) and warning or banning others does not set a good precedence.

Qsaark you sometime really dont think before you post. There has to be a limit. Different issues merit a different levels of threshold. If someone calls this world a living hell not many will mind, but if someone would abuse his or her's respective country directly he/she would definitely response unless they have gone numb!

(no offence) If today i say something about your family or near ones would you spare me? yes i admit i have used foul language and would use it again if anyone would say something stupid enough! Equating solders with animals!! this things could have been said in some other way. i have digested everything, officers being accused of foul plays, generals being called names, the institution itself being insulted, that was accepted, but i repeat it again, anyone dare say bad about my men, i am going to come harder this time. If you think it is getting above the forum rules then i would beg to disagree, how would you or anybody on this forum feel if someone calls his or her brother or sis an animal! Should that gentleman feel ok if i tell him that you treat your sons as animals!

Ok not everyone is perfect, there might be lapses on the militay's part but when someone would come up with a stupid piece it has to be replied in the same coins.

i still maintain that if the same kinda episode is repeated i would respond harder, though i admit that i have been taking liberties.

i usalyy report the posts, but you missed that he called me a bas** and i never responded. That was something said to me, i accepted it, i didnt even report the post although it was a direct abuse.

Yes i am most of the time rude, but being disrespectful/insulting and rude are two different things sir!

[qsaark]

Xeric, my brother, many times you are right. But I do not acknowledge that only because of the tone you use in your posts. Go ahead and say you don’t care, after all you do not require validation from a faceless, nameless QSAARK. But this applies in real world too. You are an Army officer, asset of my country, we depend on you. If you lose temper so easily than how would you make rationale decisions? How would you lead those men your superiors have entrusted under your able command? You may have capacity to do that, but anger does blur thought process and can affect the critical decision making. There has to be difference between you and me, a soldier and a non-soldier. And in my opinion, being able to overcome your emotions under stressful situation is one such thing that distinguishes you, the MPs, from the rest of us.

I will therefore request you not to take me wrong. Believe it or not, your recent posts on salaries, other benefits, plots etc. has significantly changed my perception. It would have done it earlier, or more so, only if you were should I say little less angry while typing.

[Xeric]

Xeric, my brother, many times you are right. But I do not acknowledge that only because of the tone you use in your posts. Go ahead and say you don’t care, after all you do not require validation from a faceless, nameless QSAARK. But this applies in real world too. You are an Army officer, asset of my country, we depend on you. If you lose temper so easily than how would you make rationale decisions? How would you lead those men your superiors have entrusted under your able command? You may have capacity to do that, but anger does blur thought process and can affect the critical decision making. There has to be difference between you and me, a soldier and a non-soldier. And in my opinion, being able to overcome your emotions under stressful situation is one such thing that distinguishes you, the MPs, from the rest of us.

I will therefore request you not to take me wrong. Believe it or not, your recent posts on salaries, other benefits, plots etc. has significantly changed my perception. It would have done it earlier, or more so, only if you were should I say little less angry while typing.

Lolzz.. qsaark, as i have already pointed out that different situations warrant different responses. If a person would push me i wouldnt and should not push him. If this incident take place in an over-crowded train and if i respond him with a push then i seriously have issues and i might not be fit for the military, but if that dud pushed me for fun, some may suggest that he should be given a bloody nose and others may suggest that an angry stare would do the job, some would even say that he should be ignored. Perceptions differ.

There would be a different response if someone stroke your hairs while sitting besides you and if he strokes your sisters (may not be real-just anyone) hair, now if someone responds to this situation with in a rude manner i would not call it getting angry or losing temper.

We in the military dont get angry. Anger has nothing to do in war.

i want to kill the enemy because i am angry on him an want to fire my rifle but cant do it as i dont have orders, what use my anger is of if i cant vent it out, so the net outcome is NOT to get angry, so sir we dont get angry unless we reach on the heads of the enemy when we have charged on to the enemy and want to kill him with our buoyant, there the anger might be justified, until then we keep our cool.

As of being rude Army has nothing to do with it.

Here's an example; i call the crow white, it is white no sir it is white, see i have a crow infront if me and it is white, cant you see it is white, hey you thick head it is white!!!! How on earth you cant see that it us white, how can a crow not be white? it is and has to be white! if you think it is not white then you are blind, crows are always white!!

Now if someone still goes to him and 'request' him that the crow is not white then that requesting-dude needs a medical check up, either that white-crow-dude is a physco case or he is doing it deliberately. i dont take the later as true as when a person can reason it means that he is not mentally ill, and he is OK, but he is calling the crow white just for the sake of it, and if someone knowing fully well ignores this then i doubt his brains and if someone (even) responds him with sarcasm, i dont term his being angry as this is what he has asked for.

There are many things which are known to the troller, but he is just posting it with a definite agenda, and that need to be taken care of right there. If someone calls it getting angry i dont mind.

BTW, the military has tested me and my anger (if you call it so) so many times and they have no issues with it. The tests have been in actual ops and routine matters, the check and balance that the military exercises on you are so deliberate and tight that you cant evade them by any means, and i passed them

BTW, do you talk with your parents, friends, brothers and enemies in the same manner? Not i guess, the tone that one keeps with a close friend is not kept with a strict teacher and the tone that you keep with childern is not kept with a helpline operator on the telephone. What say?

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

This thread has become meaningless. We can discuss the millitary gains and blunders---but talking about the other stuff is at times getting a little too nasty.

[Xeric]

Hi,

This thread has become meaningless. We can discuss the millitary gains and blunders---but talking about the other stuff is at times getting a little too nasty.

Re-Hi,

We missed you MK dear on this thread. Yes you are right this thread did become meaningless the day people on this thread stopped using their brians.

[qsaark]

……………..BTW, do you talk with your parents, friends, brothers and enemies in the same manner? Not i guess, the tone that one keeps with a close friend is not kept with a strict teacher and the tine that you keep with children is not kept with a helpline operator on the telephone. What say?

The examples you have given above do not apply here. There is a discussion going on here, and people may write things that you don’t like of one or several reasons. However, let loose your anger and start using a foul language is against the rules and norms of carrying out a discussion. The forum members are not anyone’s parents, friends, or brothers, but they are not enemies as well. I carefully went through all the posts and found that you used the foul language first. Using foul language and expecting that other won’t retaliate, is not a good idea. Following are quotations from your posts:

Post # 18 “You need to get your brains refurbished”
Post# 21 “Ok how that fu** would it bother anybody”
Post # 23 “You are an idiot! Let me be very rude this time!”

It is only than that SB retaliated and used less than civil language. Even in reply to my post # 55, you started with “Lolzz.. qsaark”. Come on yaar, how lowly and insignificant you think others and their opinions are? Again in response to MK’s post you said “people on this thread stopped using their brains”.

As per your own statement, an officer with a full service of 35 years or so may have around 2-3 plots. If this is true, how will you explain the following property made by General Musharraf? Musharraf is not a son of a rich father, his father got promoted to the rank of a section officer (grade 17) just before his retirement.

(1) Under construction House in Army Housing Scheme Pt-II, Karachi.
(2) 2000 Sq. Yards in DHA, Karachi.
(3) 2xKanals in Morgah Housing Scheme, Rawalpindi.
(4) 1 and half Kanal in AWT (Army Welfare Trust) Housing Scheme, Peshawar.
(5) 8xMarlas in LCCHS, Lahore.
(6) 2xSquare agriculture land at Bahawalpur.

b. Parents' house in F-7/3, Islamabad.
c. Daughter's house in DHA (Defence), Karachi.
d. 1xKanal plot in Eastridge Scheme (09).
e. 2xKanals in Sangar Housing Scheme, Gwadar.

I hate to bring my personal stuff into discussion, but only for the sake of making it clear. My Dad retired after 36 year of service as a Director General (grade 21) from a government department. He managed to buy a house (Rs ~12 lakh) and a plot (Rs 3 lakh) only after his retirement from the money he got from his provident fund etc. And my parents are very careful when it comes to spend money. And this is all an honest officer would get at the end of his service even after retiring as a grade 21 officer in civilian sector. He is happy with whatever he has; his biggest investment was in his son’s education which surely is now paying him back. I have not mentioned this because I or my parents want more (Alhamdulillah, I managed to save in past 4 years more than my father saved during his entire government service), but just so that you can compare the difference between the Military and Civilian (Government) sector benefits.

[Xeric]

The examples you have given above do not apply here. There is a discussion going on here, and people may write things that you don’t like of one or several reasons. However, let loose your anger and start using a foul language is against the rules and norms of carrying out a discussion. The forum members are not anyone’s parents, friends, or brothers, but they are not enemies as well. I carefully went through all the posts and found that you used the foul language first. Using foul language and expecting that other won’t retaliate, is not a good idea. Following are quotations from your posts:

Post # 18 “You need to get your brains refurbished”
Post# 21 “Ok how that fu** would it bother anybody”
Post # 23 “You are an idiot! Let me be very rude this time!”

It is only than that SB retaliated and used less than civil language. Even in reply to my post # 55, you started with “Lolzz.. qsaark”. Come on yaar, how lowly and insignificant you think others and their opinions are? Again in response to MK’s post you said “people on this thread stopped using their brains”.

As per your own statement, an officer with a full service of 35 years or so may have around 2-3 plots. If this is true, how will you explain the following property made by General Musharraf? Musharraf is not a son of a rich father, his father got promoted to the rank of a section officer (grade 17) just before his retirement.

(1) Under construction House in Army Housing Scheme Pt-II, Karachi.
(2) 2000 Sq. Yards in DHA, Karachi.
(3) 2xKanals in Morgah Housing Scheme, Rawalpindi.
(4) 1 and half Kanal in AWT (Army Welfare Trust) Housing Scheme, Peshawar.
(5) 8xMarlas in LCCHS, Lahore.
(6) 2xSquare agriculture land at Bahawalpur.

b. Parents' house in F-7/3, Islamabad.
c. Daughter's house in DHA (Defence), Karachi.
d. 1xKanal plot in Eastridge Scheme (09).
e. 2xKanals in Sangar Housing Scheme, Gwadar.

I hate to bring my personal stuff into discussion, but only for the sake of making it clear. My Dad retired after 36 year of service as a Director General (grade 21) from a government department. He managed to buy a house (Rs ~12 lakh) and a plot (Rs 3 lakh) only after his retirement from the money he got from his provident fund etc. And my parents are very careful when it comes to spend money. And this is all an honest officer would get at the end of his service even after retiring as a grade 21 officer in civilian sector. He is happy with whatever he has; his biggest investment was in his son’s education which surely is now paying him back. I have not mentioned this because I or my parents want more (Alhamdulillah, I managed to save in past 4 years more than my father saved during his entire government service), but just so that you can compare the difference between the Military and Civilian (Government) sector benefits.

Oh Qsaark the same old ... (now you are again going to accuse me of foul language)

foul language is foul language when ever it is used. Should i quote the same language used by you? May it was against a suicide bomber. Anywaz, enough of this debate.

Coming back to the topic. To answer you i would say that the best answer that i can give is that you go ask Musharrf about his estates! or may be you can take him to court and ask him from where did he manage to make such property. He is no more the President so rest assured that ISI is not going to make you disappear

But let me tell you what i know:

Musharraf retired as a General, a minimum of his two houses/plots were from the Army (for which paid ofcourse). You said his father retired as a 17 grade officer, now tell me how many 17 grade officer were in his father's time? How many even Matric pass chaps did you find back in 60s or 70s? How many engineers were there then, how many doctors were there? How many MBAs or M Phils did you find in 60s/70s when you compare then now a days. A 17 grade officer back then in 60s/70s was a hell of a thing as compared to his colleagues.

Do something for me, find someone from you friends whose father retired as a 17 grade officer and find another whose father was not a 17 grade officer, try to compare the number of plots they both have now and you'll get the answer. When most of the people were like: one earner and 9 eaters, cant you see the progress and difference between a family (A) one whose father was a govt servant and the other (family B) whose father was a shop keeper. Family As sons grew up and started earning while the father was still getting his pension-more income to the family and family B, when the father was no more able to sit in the shop, the shop had to be manned by one of the sons, thus yiou have no more income and you have a father whom you have to take guud care of. Compare both the families,, which would be having a greater chance to get a plot? Family A has earners and family B has only 1. So this is the difference between retiring as a 17 grader and not.

Moreover Mush earned for 35 years, and your father earned for 36 years. Not much of a difference, but the difference is there, when Mush was earning your father was studying. A militaryman is earning when he is 18 and his classfellow would start earning by around 22-24 at the earliest if he has to do atleast Masters. Now those 4 years means alot! here it is how. fauji is earning and might be assisting his family but a none fauji is not, not only he is NOT earning but getting more money from his parents for studies. Does it make a huge difference? it does! By the time my classfellows got a job i was having a bike, a tv, a full furnished room, an expensive cell phone, guud amount of cloths and other accessories, was assisting my parents/siblings and fulfilling many minor other requirements from my own pocket without burdening my parents.

On the other hand a few of my classfellows had already taken huge loans for their studies! Most of my fellow friends in the military had already made the items that they would have required after their marriages thus saving burden of the same. This is one.

Second:
Parents' house in F-7/3, Islamabad: From where did your parents get their house?

Daughter's house in DHA (Defence), Karachi: Where does your daughter lives (if she is married), its probably is her husband's house.

(1) Under construction House in Army Housing Scheme Pt-II, Karachi.
(2) 2000 Sq. Yards in DHA, Karachi.
(3) 2xKanals in Morgah Housing Scheme, Rawalpindi.
(4) 1 and half Kanal in AWT (Army Welfare Trust) Housing Scheme, Peshawar.
(5) 8xMarlas in LCCHS, Lahore.
(6) 2xSquare agriculture land at Bahawalpur.
A few of these are from the Army (paid ofcourse). The rest: Mush was an Ace officer of Pak Army, meaning thereby he had alot of foreign tours to his name, he earned it bro, he worked had, was declared the best and was chosen for these incentives. He has been abroad quite a few times. But that's only Mush NOT ALL Officer go abroad, and YES but all Generals have been abroad and that is why they today have risen to the Rank of a General. i have been abroad for once and earned a handsome amount and bought something very expensive (it was not a Ferrari).

Generals are the cream of our army. They have been on secondments, courses and given special tasks thus they earn more as compared to a normal Officer who has to retire as a Major. So it has to be like this that you might fond a Major roaming in a Honda City and another Major in Suzuki Mehran; the reason being that the later has been to some UN Mission for one year stayed there away from his family for one year, faced the hardships of Law Enforcement, endangered his life and then in turn earned more as compared to the other Officer. BUT these are so few that they can be counted on finger tips And dear, the future Generals have to be within these GUUD officers who are more competent more learnered and more hard working! So ultimately they have started earning more since the very start!! Now if someone says that one becomes rich when he becomes a General is plain WRONG!!

Mind it again, these kinda officers are very few! How many generals are there actually? Get the ratio yourself. See the total number of officers in the army and how many make it to the generalship!!

Moreover, Mush was from SSG! right, meaning thereby he was earning a minimum or Rs 5000 to 6000 MORE than a Non SSG Officer! A clear advantage, meaning thereby he was able to save Rs 5000 each month easily as other officers (None SSG) of his rank and service were able to live a guud life even if they were not getting this Rs 5K bonus!!

Multiply 5 with 12 a year and you got your down payment for any plot in Pakistan!!!!!!!!!! and he stayed there for quite a few years bro!
If he could buy a plot from civilian sector as a captain or major who stops him, atleast the Army wont!!

Only this Rs 5K bonus alone can justify his most of the property dear!!!

Let me tell you more: once when i was a lieut i was deployed at the borders, guess what when i returned and check my balance in the bank i had RS 40000, wow!! Now many ranters would say how on earth can a poor fauji save that much of money. Here;s the answer. i myself was surprised, after through analysis i found out this:

i didnt go on leave for 10 moths: meaning there by saving approx 10K to 15K on each trip.


There was no KFC, Mcdonalds, Usmainia, Subway, MM Alam Road,etc etc: thus saving some amount.

There was no cellular coverage:Thus i was able to save my cell ph expense.

i was living in a tent with a lantern to light it up and not in my home: thus no electricity, gas, water bills.

My bike/car was not available to me: No petrol expense.

There were no marriages, functions, birthdays, aftar parties, gatherings: i.e. No need to buy new cloths-lots of saving.

i used to in the uniform most iof the time, or else the few sweat shorts/track suits/shots that i used to work out in: i.e not wearing any fancy cloths and shoes, thus extending there life as they were lying either in my trunk or hangers in my room. Though i have to buy more uniforms.

There was no TV: i.e NO cable bill.

i had to eat only dall or vegetables as the meat was not readily available: thus lowering by food expense.

No Pepsis, no nimko chaska, no no Lays chips, no chewing gums, no pastries from the bakery, no salad as appetizers etc etc: thus lowering my mess bill.

No movies to watch, no gamer Cds, no internet to surf on etc etc: Thus saving more money!!

etc etc...

So i had Rs 57K in my kitty and guess what, when i came back i came to know that my father had applied for a plot in a housing scheme opened by his employer and had got his name in the ballot, and is desperately in need of money and is planning to sell the old bike that he had (not being used as we also had a car). So you know what i gave 50 K from my pocket and got the plot booked which now amounts to ,may be 17 lacs. Now if someone is going tp ask me from where did my Parents' house in F-7/3, Islamabad came from i am sure going to kick his azz (oops more foul lang)

And guess what from the remaining 7 K i bought a latest DVD player, which when my friends see do ask me hey from where can you afford such a luxury and i am like @#!&...

Now this episode has not happened for once, it keeps on coming!

Lastly: most of the officers live independently i.e their parents are not dependent on them. One of the reasons is that their parents know that if they will ask them to feed them it would be difficult for the both the parties. Let me show you an example. A friend of mine is earning a bit more than me, but he has 6 kids, a sister, parents to feed (though there are his brother who are also earning as guud as he does), but i dont have to do this. i love to support my parents, every Son wants to does!, but it is occasional, and thankfully my father is still earning. i do support them, if not them but my younger brothers as that is what we Pakistanis do, but still i am at ease as compared to that friend of mine. Got it?

Now i am waiting when i manage to go abroad again so that when i return i could buy a few more plots!!!

[Patriot]

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Also Musharraf was COAS for almost 9 years.According to rule added by the great so called Islamic General Zia ul Huq the active COAS gets 3% from any defence deal (I think it's more then 3% Muradk and X-man can confirm this).So i am sure he got lots of money from these deals.Again I am not saying this rule is good but it was added by General zia who is quite popular among Islamists.