Pakistan Acknowledges Sea-Based Nuclear Deterrent

[Windjammer]

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Haha, this is a joke a multi-barrel launch means putting it on a sub

Modifying a sub is not a joke, making a sub might be easier I guess than modifying. Im not sure Pakistan has that capability and there is no concrete information to suggest that too..

And are we privileged to have a structural engineer amongst us ....the point of my post was that the evolution of Babur's launch capability points to the fact that it is intended to be deployed in the Sub role. Don't let your imagination drift away.

[mjnaushad]

France is a member of MTCR..and even though you are not signed partner of MTCR,but the treaty will stop you from using Agosta as your Babur platform.

China is Not....

[samantk]

And are we privileged to have a structural engineer amongst us ....the point of my post was that the evolution of Babur's launch capability points to the fact that it is intended to be deployed in the Sub role. Don't let your imagination drift away.

Are you a structural engineer?

The part of your point does not point to anything factual. A multi-barrel, sealed canisters does not mean that it is done for Sub launch, it is done for many other reasons as you very well know.

[IND151]

a poster on TRISHUL was saying that pak is developing 2,500 KM SLCM

[Zarvan]

Pakistan has acknowledged the existence of a sea-based nuclear deterrent with the recent inauguration of the Headquarters of the Naval Strategic Force Command (NSFC) by the head of the Navy, Adm. Asif Sandhila.

A May 19 press release by the military’s Inter Services Public Relations stated the NSFC “will perform a pivotal role in development and employment of the Naval Strategic Force,” and was “the custodian of the nation’s 2nd strike capability.”

Mansoor Ahmed, lecturer at Quaid-e-Azam University’s Department of Defence and Strategic Studies, and who specializes in Pakistan’s nuclear and missile programs, said this is all but specific confirmation of the widely speculated submarine-launched variant of the Babur/HATF-VII (Vengeance-VII) cruise missile.

Analyst Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank said Pakistan has been working on its sea-based deterrent for some time.

“When the Babur was first revealed in 2005, it was claimed that it is mainly designed to be deployed from submarines. There was at least that speculation,” he said.

The Navy “has pretty good experience in using similar systems, for example, both submarine-launched Harpoon and Exocet use a similar system, and [the Navy] has operated both for a long time.”

Shabbir speculates that the launch method may be similar to the UGM-84 Harpoon’s method of being fired from torpedo tubes.

However, other analysts are not so certain the Navy can afford to undertake the responsibility of the nation’s second-strike capability.

Former Australian defense attaché to Islamabad Brian Cloughley said the size of Pakistan’s submarine force is too small to carry out this task.

“Pakistan’s current submarine fleet is not adequate in numbers [although well-trained] to be able to undertake detection and effective interdiction of the Indian fleet, given its size — which is increasing, even if slowly,” he said.

Currently, Pakistan’s submarine flotilla comprises two refurbished 1970s-era Agosta-70s and three 1990s-era Agosta-90B submarines. The latter are equipped with air independent propulsion (AIP) or are in the process of being retrofitted with the AIP module, and incrementally entered service from 1999.

Cloughley said interdiction of India’s fleet “must remain [the Navy’s] first priority,” and considers “conversion of the present assets to take Babur not only costly but a most regrettable diversion of budget allocation.”

“I would go so far as to say that, in present circumstances, it would be a grave error if such a program were to go ahead,” he added.

The Navy, however, has a requirement for new submarines and wants to increase their number. The Agosta-90B design has been superseded twice, once by the DCNI Scorpene, and briefly by a paper design called the Marlin before it was absorbed into the Scorpene family.

There is a confirmed requirement for 12 to 14 submarines to meet Navy expansion plans. This would allow for a constant war patrol of at least one deterrent-tasked submarine, leaving other submarines to carry out more traditional tasks.

However, Cloughley is still certain that Pakistan does not require such a capability.

“[Pakistan] has plenty of nuclear-capable SSMs and strike aircraft, and does not need a Navy-oriented second-strike capability,” he said.

Pakistan Acknowledges Sea-Based Nuclear Deterrent | Defense News | defensenews.com

What Number of Frigates are in this plan at least in plan ?

[SP!TF!R3]

China is Not....

but you are not using any Chinese Submarines,and this article and some member said about agosta..thats why i pointed out.

[IceCold]

The Australian defense attache is right, we do need more assets before we even think of converting few of them for strategic strike, none the less, we cannot neglect the effectiveness of such a capability. Any nuclear power must have a 2nd strike capability.
If PN has taken this role, then i believe we are going to see new assets in the future, specially the long speculated Qing class submarines.

[saiyan0321]

i say rather then modifying a submarine either get one from china that can fir cruise missiles without any limitations or build the nuclear submarine which is 4 to 5 years away but never the less very rewarding

Pakistans Madrasa educated technichians can do everything that others cannot do,even modify a submarine design to accomodate cruise missile in sub.

listen if you cant talk like a civilized human being then dont talk at all we have enough of ur kind here no need for you to join either

[Rafi]

Pakistan has decided to base the majority of it's second strike capability on Submarines, in future this will be with SLBM that can target the entity to the east from thousands of km away.

[nomi007]

we got agosta-90b under transfer of technology
agosta can fire Exocet anti ship missiles
i think may be our scientist change the shape of babur same as Exocet

Exocet launch from sub

[SP!TF!R3]

we got agosta-90b under transfer of technology
agosta can fire Exocet anti ship missiles
i think may be our scientist change the shape of babur same as Exocet

exocet has range lower than 300km,Babur has not..TOT or not,you can't use submarine built under France(a MTCR signed county) to fire Babur..it'll be violation of MTCR rules.Buying submarines from China will be proper.

[Rafi]

exocet has range lower than 300km,Babur has not..TOT or not,you can't use submarine built under France(a MTCR signed county) to fire Babur..it'll be violation of MTCR rules.Buying submarines from China will be proper.

Tell you what fella, why don't you go to Paris and file a court injunction to stop Pakistan firing Babur from the Agosta.

[shahzadasweet]

WHEN U BUY CAR ITS UP 2 U HOW U USE IT CZ U OWNED IT WHEN ITS COMES TO DEFENCE NOTHING IS HIGHER THEN THAT AND UNCLE SAM ALRDY SHOWED THAT NOTHING IS BIGGER THEN STATE DEFENCE



Anyways here goes the 2nd strke captbly on india cz they were jumping on nuclear sub lol =))) whts the reason of spendg when u can use ur workng stuff for diffrnt purpose u jusst need some brain

[regular]

I guess with the new tech and developed system the one used within Shaheen 1A. the range of our Babur cruise missile must have been increased from 600km to 1600kms.This means we are almost able to hit any Indian target falling within this range from our Submarines ....

[RiazHaq]

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no no
we have better arsenal of weapon u will check when u attack on us
we shall simple answer to u
by using them
by the way us-USSR stole German's weapons in 1945

APJ Abul Kalam is credited with designing India's first satellite launcher SLV3. Its design is virtually identical to the American Scout rocket used in the 1960s. According to the details published in the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, Abul Kalam spent four months in training in the United States in 1963-1964. He visited NASA's Langley Research Center in Virginia, where the U.S. Scout rocket was conceived, and the Wallops Island Flight Center on the Virginia coast, where the Scout was being flown. Soon after Abul Kalam's visit, India requested and received detailed technical reports on the Scout's design, which was unclassified.

US Scout and India's SLV3 are both 23 meters long, use four similar solid-fuel stages and "open loop" guidance, and lift a 40-kilogram payload into low earth orbit. The SLV's 30-foot first stage later became the first stage of the Agni.

The aid of the United States and France, however, was quickly surpassed by substantial West German help in the 1970s and 1980s. Germany assisted India in three key missile technologies: guidance, rocket testing, and the use of composite materials. All were supposed to be for the space program, but all were also used for military missiles.

Haq's Musings: India's "Indigenous" Copies of Foreign Nukes, Missiles