Pakistan to lease Nuclear sub from China?

[monitor]

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from pshamim
Breaking News
Pakdef exclusive

Pakistan ‘s official stance has not been to enter into an arms race with India but it is determined to not only maintain a favorable strategic parity but also maintain superiority in selected area like underwater warfare.

Latest news is that PN has been negotiating with CSTC in China to acquire up to 6 Yuan cklass diesel-electric submarines
With fuel cell based AIP systems. Each double hulled SSK is expected to cost about $230 Million.

Another intriguing news is of a possible 10 years lease of a 5500 Tons 091 HAN class nuclear submarine (SSGN) Along with these submarine, Pakistan is also expected to buy 4 Jiankai 054 class FFGs. I had reported the news couple of years ago. Now it seems that the negotiation are at a final stage

Deal was discussed in length last year with Chinese Vice President when he visited Pakistan last year.
Deals are in advanced stage with Zardari being very enthusiastic. Hopefully we may hear more in near future.

Type-091 have been retrofitted and modernized. Either Changzheng 3 (403) or Changzheng-4 (404) is expected to end up in Pakistan for 10 years.


The details are not classified and many countries are already in the knowledge. I have been assured of that and cleared to break the news. More non-classified informations will be posted on the subject soon

[IceCold]

Another intriguing news is of a possible 10 years lease of a 5500 Tons 091 HAN class nuclear submarine (SSGN) Along with these submarine, Pakistan is also expected to buy 4 Jiankai 054 class FFGs. I had reported the news couple of years ago. Now it seems that the negotiation are at a final stage

Ohh nice. Now we are talking.

[dk33]

Copied posts over to create new thread.

Continue discussion on this topic here please, instead of on the other submarine thread

[F-16_Falcon]

where is the source?

[SAUD-404]

It could be true!!!!!!!!!!!

[Penguin]

No. Name Shipyard Fleet Launch IOC Note
401 ChangZheng 1 Bohai North Sea 26 Dec 70 1 Aug 74 Decommissioned in 2000 > almost 37 years old
402 ChangZheng 2 Bohai North Sea 20 Dec 77 30 Dec 80 Decommissioned in 2001? > just over 30 years old
403 ChangZheng 3 Bohai North Sea 31 Oct 83 25 Dec 84 In service
404 ChangZheng 4 Bohai North Sea 26 Dec 85 27 Dec 87 In service
405 ChangZheng 5 Bohai North Sea Apr 90 Dec 90 In service.

The first two boats (401, 402) were refitted in the late 1980s, and back in service in the mid-1990s. They were finally retired from active service in 2000/01. 403 and 404 boat started mid-life refits in 1998 and were back in service in 2000. I suspect they will remain in PLAN service for some time. Most likely candidate boat would therefor be 403.

"The operational performance of the Type 091 was regarded as inferior to that of the contemporary U.S. or Russian designs, especially in terms of quietness, weapon systems, and sensors. This may have been improved following the modernisation refits of the submarine in the late 1990s, which saw the surface of the submarine being covered with acoustic tiles to reduce the acoustic signature, and the introduction of the more advanced wire-guided anti-submarine torpedo and possibly submarine-launched YJ-8 anti-ship missile too."
Type 091 (09-I) Han Class Nuclear-Powered Attack Submarine - SinoDefence.com

"The HAN-class SSNs, of which retirement of the lead units has already begun. are relatively noisy submarines based on 1950s and 1960s technology. Although the class has benefited from several upgrade programs, it remains limited by short range weapons and noise... their operational performance was considerably inferior to that of contemporary American or Russian vessels. The Han-class SSNs are noted for problems, including high internal radiation levels and an inability to fire missiles while submerged, which compromise their operational effectiveness and their wartime utility against ASW-competent adversaries. The lead boats (401 & 402?) suffered radiation problems which were thought to have been solved after extensive refit. But since the late 1990s they appeared to have become inoperational. According to some reports, as of 2000 only two of its Han-class SSNs remained operational, despite the extended re-fits to the units of this class."
Type 09-1 Han Class

"The Han-Class is well known for having a noisy reactor and poor radiation shielding. This causes health hazards for her crew as nuclear radiation levels are higher than they should be aboard the submarine. "
Type 091 submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Several years before, some western analyzers have judged that the SSN-401 and SSN-402 submarines have been no longer operational in duty because of technological malfunction and reactor radiation pollution. However PLA never admitted it and the secret-keeping fog on the nuclear submarine fleet close its door to all foreign and domestic civilian news media.

Except the No.401 submarine, the SSN-402 submarine (serviced in 1980) and SSN-403(serviced in 1984) have been operational in PLA navy for over 20 years. The newest one, SSN-405, is over 17 years. Since the years of 2000, the main players in exercises are usually SSN-404 and SSN-405...Considering PLA Navy’s strategic position in western pacific, the nuclear submarine amount needs to be expanded. So the total retirement of Han class family can not be seen in next 6-8 years" (article from 2008> 2014-16)
China Media unveils one Han class Submarine's out of commission*|*China Military Power Mashup

Not so sure this would be a valuable asset for PN, considering age, track record and basic design shortcomings.

[SAUD-404]

I have heard PN was interested in Xia class SSN may be it was cost effective?????????

[SAUD-404]

091 Xia class SSBN

[Ammyy]

Where is source ???


Yar common .. how many thread without a single source ....

News about nuke sub is not confirmed and people here discussion about class (which one they like)

[dk33]

Where is source ???


Yar common .. how many thread without a single source ....

News about nuke sub is not confirmed and people here discussion about class (which one they like)

The source is mentioned in the OP - PShamim, who is a highly respected member on this forum and pakdef.

A lot of what he has revealed over the past years has been extremely accurate. I will leave it up to you to contact him to determine why he is credible.

I would not have moved that post over and created a new thread if the source was not credible.

That said, even PS has indicated that the acquisition of a nuclear powered submarine is a 'possibility', not a certainty. Penguin has made some good arguments as to why it would not be a good acquisition for the PN.

What is clear now is that negotiations over a potential nuclear sub acquisition have being going on for some time. The specifics of what the PN might be looking for in such an acquisition - systems, specifications, upgrades - may indeed prove to be a roadblock, but we will have to wait and see.

[A1Kaid]

And what is Pakistan going to do with this nuclear sub leased from China?

[IceCold]

And what is Pakistan going to do with this nuclear sub leased from China?

What do you think countries do with such an asset. It will not only increase our minimum credible deterrence but also provide us with an important second strike capability.

[unicorn148]

mo you cant have second strike capability with a nuclear sub you need to have a SLBM to have that capability and till now Pakistan has not started any such projects

[FNFAL]

What do you think countries do with such an asset. It will not only increase our minimum credible deterrence but also provide us with an important second strike capability.

dude read penguins post.....if buying junk is your idea of deterrence....beshhht of luck

[DV RULES]

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What do you think countries do with such an asset. It will not only increase our minimum credible deterrence but also provide us with an important second strike capability.

Second strike capability effective when you have credible technology in hand, only to show that you also have Nuclear submarine when we know that it will not ideal or even sufficient for us, i don't think Pakistan must go for this deal.