Hatf IX Nasr Missile Tested by Pakistan

[Thorough Pro]

---

---

Don't want to derail the thread, but I think AD systems are kept highly secret as they are usually the first target of any air strike and secondly they would play a vital role in air defence of key installations. Element of surprise still has it's place in the war scenario.

Not possible. Both are differences role. With my surprise, Pakistan hasn't invested in Air-Defence missiles (i.e S300/400) against jet intruders which is still most important. It is clearly Pakistan focus heavy on the land at this moment.



The top priority right now is testing with TUBES experiments. I am confident to say, it will be success tubes in new future submarines with the armed-missiles test as well as frigates.

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Its all about High Altitude & 15,000 KM range missiles now

[Thorough Pro]

Navigation for a land attack missile is much more simpler than an AD missile because of static/slow movment of the target. An air defence missile needs advanced sensors (infrared seeker/radar, etc) and a super fast computer to process the target movment data, probable path and then guiding the missile to it's target. If that can be achieved other things are comparatively very easy.

Can't they just use the missile and modify it to a SAM?
I mean keep the missile with rocket motor, develop a seeker (or use chinese one).

I know its easy said than done but im just asking if its possible?

[stopper]

can Pakistan install these "NASR" batteries on one of its PIA 747 and use it as a strategic bomber?

[Thorough Pro]

Why do I thin you are nothing more than a troll?

Your first post about Chogy and now this crap. Are you one of those paranoid americans?

[stopper]

Why do I thin you are nothing more than a troll?

Your first post about Chogy and now this crap. Are you one of those paranoid americans?

dont think too much ...

[Thorough Pro]

Don't worry we can.............

[ababeel22]

guys what is the speed of this missile???????????? by the look of it, it looked very fast.

[AhaseebA]

guys what is the speed of this missile???????????? by the look of it, it looked very fast.

It looks very fast because it accelerates quickly because of lighter weight-to-power ratio. Our other missiles take longer times to accelerate.

But I doubt if its speed is above Mach-4.

[Ranasikander]

guys what is the speed of this missile???????????? by the look of it, it looked very fast.

Yes you are right, the speed is unbelievable. This missile has killer speed. It approaches towards its target like a bullet.

Its miniature size, unbelievable high speed, capability both as conventional/nuclear and multi-tube provision all loaded on a mobile vehicle makes it a Killer Boy among HATF family.

[regular]

Yes you are right, the speed is unbelievable. This missile has killer speed. It approaches towards its target like a bullet. Its miniature size, unbelievable high speed, capability both as conventional/nuclear and multi-tube provision all loaded on a mobile vehicle makes it a Killer Boy among HATF family.

Okay Great!!! So this means that the Indian Anti missile defences won't be able to intercept them......

[Ranasikander]

Okay Great!!! So this means that the Indian Anti missile defences won't be able to intercept them......

Yes, with this speed and miniature size, it will be hard nut for any anti missile defense system.

With this speed (lets assume Mach 3) it will reach its target at 60 km within 59 sec, so the response time to take counter measures after its launch is very less.

[[--Leo--]]

4 multi tube missile system

[ANG]

Pakistan Missile Test Underscores Need for Deterrence | Defense News | defensenews.com

ISLAMABAD — Pakistan’s recent test of a short-range surface-to-surface missile was aimed at strengthening its conventional deterrence and complicating Indian war planning, experts said.

The May 29 test of the HATF-IX/Vengeance-IX NASR Short Range Surface-to-Surface Multi Tube Missile system was witnessed by retired Lt. Gen. Khalid Ahmed Kidwai, director-general, Strategic Plans Division, who said the test would “consolidate Pakistan’s deterrence capability at all levels of the threat spectrum, thereby ensuring peace in the region.”

An image from the military’s Inter Service Public Relations showed the NASR missile system to be armed with four missiles. When it was first revealed in 2011 it was comprised of only two box launchers fitted to the back of the Chinese-origin TEL vehicle.

Mansoor Ahmed, lecturer in the Department of Defence and Strategic Studies at Quaid-e-Azam University where he specializes in Pakistan’s non-conventional program and associated delivery systems, says the NASR “is designed for counterforce targets.

“In this respect, it symbolizes Pakistan’s resolve to develop nuclear weapons and delivery systems for use at the substrategic level, designed to deter India from exploiting Pakistan’s nuclear thresholds and attempting limited war or pro-active military operations,” he said.

NASR was “particularly aimed to augment Pakistan’s conventional deterrence at the tactical level for eventual employment in case of collapse of conventional defenses on any vulnerable theater of operations,” he said, and signified “Pakistan is developing miniaturized warheads of appropriate counter-force yields.”

Because the test was carried out using a new four-round box launcher layout, Ahmed said NASR will probably be used to “salvo-launch low-yield nuclear weapons on an incoming enemy armored column that breaks through the conventional defenses.”

Former Australian defense attaché to Islamabad, Brian Cloughley, said the test highlights the similarities between the NASR and a similar Chinese system, the WS-2.

“It and Hatf IX appear very similar, although, of course, I don’t know the scale of the pictures. Both TELs are 6x6 and although WS-2 has six tubes, and Nasr four, the systems are remarkably alike, and I consider that at the very least there has been cooperation between the PRC and Pakistan, to their mutual benefit, as always,” he said.

Regardless, Cloughley believes it to be a significant weapon in Pakistan’s arsenal.

“When it enters service as a nuclear-capable [surface-to-surface missile] system it will be a significant battlefield player that India cannot afford to ignore,” he said.

Cloughley served as a reconnaissance and survey officer in an MGR-1 “Honest John” rocket regiment in the British Army, a weapon he remembers as having a very long preparation time because the warhead was de-mated. In this area, he rates NASR highly.

“It seems a most flexible system that probably has a very short preparation time, and it can be assumed that the rockets come ready-mated,” he said.

But such weapons are escalatory by nature, he said.

“Tactical nuclear weapons are a force multiplier of great importance, but they also raise the stakes enormously, because once they are employed there is no guarantee that the use of nuclear weapons could be confined to the battlefield. The risk of all-out nuclear war rises accordingly,” he said.

He would therefore like to know more about the doctrine, as he concedes would the Indians.

Analyst Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank said keeping the NASR solely as a non-conventional system is somewhat wasteful.

NASR “should also be equipped with conventional warheads and be used against forward bases and troop concentrations as just keeping such a system for nuclear delivery alone is not going to be cost-effective, and considering our economy, we need to have a Swiss Army-knife like mentality, in which one system should be used for multiple things.”

He also has doubts about the stated 60-kilometer range of the NASR.

“I think it is more than that. They are very much understating it,” he said.

Ahmed, however, believes it to be symbiotically linked with Pakistan’s nuclear, specifically its plutonium, program. This is especially so in light of recent reports by the Institute for Science and International Security that work on its fourth plutonium enrichment reactor at Khushab was proceeding at a faster pace than had been the case with the previous reactors.

“Coupled with the recent reports of the fourth plutonium production reactor at the Khushab Nuclear Complex being half-way to completion, the NASR test demonstrates that Pakistan is serious in providing plutonium and tritium for its evolving force goals and meeting the requirements of substrategic nuclear weapons”, he said.

Adding, “This ought to be seen in the context of Pakistan’s desire to offset the acutely exacerbating conventional military imbalance with India and potential for India to develop or deploy its own substrategic nuclear weapons.”

[kṣamā]

---

---

Well i suppose u know the concept of a nuclear fission. Well then on those grounds let me brush a few basics.The basic fission reaction that occurs in a nuclear explosion involves

(Neutron) + (Fissionable Isotope of large atom) → (Isotope of medium sized atom) + (Isotope of medium sized atom) + 3 or 4 (Neutron)

For a nuclear explosion to occur, the average number of the product neutrons that trigger another reaction needs to be greater than 1.

There are several things that can happen to neutrons that are produced as a product of a fission reaction

(1) They can move out of the region where the fissionable material is
(2) They can be absorbed by atoms other than the fissionable ones
(3) They are usually very fast moving -- they can bounce around off other atoms a bit and gradually get slowed down, OR
(4) If conditions are just right, they can collide with another fissionable atom, and produce another fission reaction.

If each reaction produces, say, 3.5 neutrons out for each neutron in, then there will only be a nuclear explosion if about 30% or more of those neutrons trigger another fission.
With a small lump of fissionable material, you will not get a nuclear hand grenade, Nearly all of the neutrons will travel straight out of the lump, maybe having a few collisions and warming things up, but more than 90% will take route (1) above.

For a medium size lump, routes (2) and (3) become more important. The lump will probably melt and make a bit of a mess, but not an explosion.

Quite a sizable lump of material is required for there to be any chance of an explosion. The actual size needed depends on shape and purity, but for a 100% pure sphere of fissionable material there is a "critical mass" (you may be able to find how much on the web -- I think it is somewhere in the region of 10-15 kg) required.

Now let's take 10Kg for the sake of discussion. I have not added to it the wight of firing mechanisms, shielding [Yup weapons too have shielding], safeguards and redundancies. So the question arises, what weight should a small self contained nuke weigh? Smallest, that can make a impact, 100 kg but it used ~100% enriched U235 and 350kg with abt 98.3% enrichment.

So at last, how much can Nasr carry as a warhead ? Sadly just 50kg.

So I suppose Pakistan are producing Californium-251 (cost of production $10,000,000 Per gram) for the warheads for Nasr ?

Pls shed some light on the topic
Eg:
(1). Type of Fission material ?
(2). Fission material weight ?
(3). yield?