Dr. Qadeer responsible for N-proliferation: Musharraf

[MastanKhan]

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My brother, this philosophy is best suited for soldiers in the battlefield. If I am wrong, than pardon my ignorance.


An aged person once conveyed to me an interesting reason behind the lack of enthusiasm in invading Pakistan. That reason is: "who wants to feed 180 million hungry mouths through own pockets?"

Regarding Israel: It is located over 3000 km away from Pakistan. Until Ghauri III comes in to service, we cannot target it. Also, Israel is improving its ABM capability. Therefore, success factor would be an issue for us.

Also, we need to keep in mind the threat of the dreaded samson option (nuclear strikes on all Islamic nations).

During perilous times, sane minded leadership is a blessing.

A famous Pakistani nuclear scientist, Munir Ahmad Khan, once wisely stated this: "We have to understand that nuclear weapons are not a play thing to be bandied publicly. They have to be treated with respect and responsibility. While they can destroy the enemy, they can also invite self destruction."

Hi,

Regardless of what the public's rhetoric is---israel has verbal guarantees from pakistan about any nuclear strikes. They keep away from our assets---we have no issues with them persay.

If a person can go through the posts on this board----we will find out that a lots of pakistani millitary threats to india were empty---but they were put forward in such a fashion and force that india fell for them.

And that is what it is all about. You never want to get to that last resolve---where you have reached the point of no return.

But during that time frame----you have to strengthen your position politically and with suitable weaponery.

Now, pakistan is not an intentional target----it an illusion created by those who want to create a mountain out of mole hills. Pakistan becomes a target of not doing what it was supposed to do.

As much restraints and restrictions fall on the public outside of pakistan----during thjeir travel or otherwise----there will be one nation they will all hate more and more---and that is pakistan---.

Paskistan needs to stop being the conduit of foreigners flying in and going to Fata----how is it possible for these young foreigners to come into the country and go into fata---.

All these young foreign nationals must be arrested----some of them need to be executed to set an example---there is no reason for there to be an open road from islamabad airport to fata for any reason.

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

God Bless Qadeer Sahib and Pakistan , Good work with your work for country Eid Mubarak as well -

Great R&D information should be shared just like US shared information with India so should we have right to share any information with any of our allies

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Sir,

That was not Aamir---that was me----you can address it to me----thankyou----.

Are you still looking for an army person to get your answers!!!

Are you trying to insult me or Pakistan's army or both?

Get over yourself please... The world does not revolve around you...

Dear Lord!!!

[shineonyoucrazydiamond]

Are you trying to insult me or Pakistan's army or both?

Get over yourself please... The world does not revolve around you...

Dear Lord!!!

Why are you acting so belligerent in all your posts? Mastan Khan sir was once a think tank on this forum, I hold great respect for him and many others do including Indians and Pakistanis

Why do you think if people are talking something constructive and realistic it is insulting Pakistan army in a way? Even India cannot fight Israel or if it was our enemy that's a fact..

[Irfan Baloch]

IMHO and maybe if I am right history will prove that it was not Ch. Iftikhar but a Saudi/Ex Ameerul Momineen/Caliphate plan to over throw the government after Lal Masjid. Ch. Iftikhar was just a catalyst and an event that triggered it.

Ch. Sahib is as human as any one of us -- he has lot of skeletons in the closet--as we all do -- he did not have the guts to stand firm unless there was some definite plan and finances backing up his play.

But than it is my opinion and can be flawed.

Sir that is not a flawed opinion, (he indeed was the pawn).

Liars Movement*
===============
The noble chief justice with insatiable appetite for petrol claims ** was touring the whole country with the entourage of hundreds of vehicles & thousands of (justice seeking) lawyers. And this went on for months. One wonders if it was the hot air coming out of throats of the emotionally charged Lawyers that was the force behind this movement or something more tangible & recognisable (the one that makes the merry go-round)?

Any one who has had an experience of arranging a gathering or travel of 20 or more people must know how hectic, time consuming and expensive it is. But honourable CJ didn’t seem to have any monetary problems for months across the country where he will be showered with rose petals bought in the quantities of tons (per our national dailies of those times). So indeed our paper tiger aka Amir al Monafaqeen Nawaz Sherif was one of the financiers along with some other foreign entities.

If my last sentence is dismissed and proven wrong then boy oh boy, we have found the answer to our chronic energy crises, just ask our lawyers to come out on the roads for few months ask them to shout, dance and jump with same passion and the electric shortfall will turn into surplus.

The Unholy Alliance
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It is funny that how this troika of a disgraced Scientist, the (not so unbiased) chief justice & terrorist of lal Mosque/ BLA joined together against Musharraf. Granted he was no saint but the way every crook, thug & criminal bounded together against him was a pathetic display of desperation. Thus the scientist despite loosing his testicles to cancer didn’t loose his tongue & audacity to threaten the state with leaking secrets (more on it later)***. The thug Mullahs that caused nuisance for the state became protectors & owners of Islamic faith and the terrorists that blow up infrastructure & target nonBaloch ethnicities became Shaheeds because one way or another they were at odds with Musharraf.

Self centred & Egotistic tendency at the expense of Nation
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This post might seem getting off topic but I am just pointing out on one tendency in Pakistan among People in authority when corrupted by the absolute power they would outrageously flaunt all laws yet would claim to represent the interest of nation and would impose their twisted faith & preach fairness & justice. A country where politicians are mill owners and have their say in the economic policy (conflict of interest?) where pro Taliban Mullahs are openly forbidding people from saying prayers for the soldiers killed while fighting the Taliban

So Dr Qadir is pretty much exhibiting this propensity where is he infallible, although exposed to be tainted but playing on people’s emotions (anti Musharraf mainly) and continues to act in a way totally contrary to a selfless hero. Because he believes that his ego is more precious than the country. He seems to be more interested in stirring up controversies in media (specially has to be slapped away from foreign media).

This so called hero is not quietly offering his knowledge & services to Pakistani science & tech universities or setting up something on those lines. It seems the personal ego is more important than sharing his knowledge with the very nation he claims to be hero of.

Rivalry with PAEC
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The Noble father of Pakistani nuclear program didn’t work long in Pakistan atomic energy commission and his antics meant that the ego was too big to fit in and work under Dr Munir Ahmed. Hence he got his way in establishing a parallel & rival institute KRL for nuclear research was established it was clearly a sign that the much celebrated father of atomic program was unwilling to work with other respected scientists no matter how important their contribution. He was never a team player and an outright authoritarian never willing to let other scientists shine in his presence. For the sake of the continuation of program a parallel organisation was founded with a free hand to Dr Qadir with full authority & no check at all. It’s a shame that not many people including this forum might even know the names of Dr Munir or Summer Mubarak. They have played their part in making Pakistan a nuclear state.

Dr Qadir is a metallurgist which is one of the parts of a very complex and long chain of processes of designing and implementing a nuclear program. Banking on a low literacy rate and emotions, Dr Qadir successfully managed to sell himself as a combination of J. Robert Oppenheimer 1 & Albert Einstein on his own.

Pakistan goes Nuclear
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The nameless scientists at PAEC were never behind KRL in the acquiring the nuclear status and had conducted series of cold tests back in the 80s like KRL. Indian tests in 98 upped the stakes and it was time to respond. Coincidently both Pakistani institutes were ready, if KRL under Dr Qadir wanted the sole glory then PAEC was also not willing to stand back and be ignored. Hence a compromise was reached to involve both organisations. Therefore it was the device from PAEC that was detonated in Chagi with the plutonium as a fusion material from KRL. Yet media chooses to ignore the work & dedication of PAEC. Dr Summer Mubarak Mund got a brief mention along with the misgivings about Dr Qadir of the fellow scientists but that was the time of celebration. Dr Khan’s investment in the media PR over the decades did pay off. And he happily accepted the crown of the “sole” architect of Pakistan nuclear program.

Demanding evidence of wrong doing.
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Unfortunately not everything can be googled. Just because you don’t find some secrets, some damning stories that are too sensitive or compromising that they remain classified and meant for the people with need to know bases. It doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Such attitude is not helpful. There are things that are not scanned and uploaded on the web. With the given the information, people decide what they want to believe or turn a blind eye. Sometimes even ample information doesn’t help like in the case of Lal Mosque episode. The hours of footage of Lal mosque lies didn’t help people to see the real face of two thug mullahs where on one hand they boasted about fighting for months and in the same day lamented that the government was being heavy handed against a couple of AK 47 wielding “kids”.

Demanding a non-western media report is laughable. Do you think our media has the calibre, capacity, willingness or resources to go beyond programs like capital talk? Where a group of obnoxious & utterly ill-mannered politicians are brought in to exhibit an orgy of obscene exchanges about corruption & their love for murderers mullahs & malign Pakistan army.

Customers of Khan’s Network
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Iran 2003 nuclear inspection
Iranians succumbed to international pressure and allowed tougher IAEA inspection upon which their enrichment facilities were found to be based on URENCO designs used in the 80s Pakistani centrifuge models of Pak-1 that KRL had designed. The sale was made as early as 1989 and upon investigation Iranian revelations were passed to Pakistani authorities who discovered that during late 80s unauthorised sales to Iran were made that led to the arrests of 2 senior KRL staff members including Muhammad Farooq (KRL manager) who were part of the Pakistani based nuclear proliferation network. This undercover sale was most embarrassing which had severe
Implications for Pakistan KSA’s past and recent multibillion dollar arms acquisitions are Iran specific it was unimaginable for Pakistan Army especially Saudi Wahabi influenced ISI to arm the arch enemy of the kingdom with the nuclear technology.

Libya sale
During the same year once Libya abandoned its nuclear ambition and opened up its facilities, the inspections once again led to Pakistani designed centrifuges that were confiscated. Libyans pointed towards various black market suppliers including Pakistanis and Interpol later on arrested 3 Swiss nuclear scientists that were found to be close associates of Dr Qadir Khan.



North Korea & Iraq
The North Korean sale is assumed to be around 1997. The US intelligence during 2002 pointed out about the Korean Uranium enrichment program. By that time suspicions about AQ Khan’s network were very strong and upon US pressure Pakistan undertook its own investigation and revealed that Dr AQ Khan admitted in supplying nuclear secrets to North Korea. There was also suggestion that AQ Khan’s network also approached Iraqi regime during 90s offering nuclear technology but Iraq backed away suspecting a sting operation. This allegation is dismissed by Pakistani government.

Taliban & Al-Qaeda
Al Qaeda has never made it nuclear admissions any secret. Two Pakistani nuclear scientists Sultan Bashir-ud-Din Mahmood and Chaudiri Abdul Majeed, founded Ummah Tameer-e-Nau, Reconstruction of the Muslim Ummah, or UTN, as a front organisation and visited Afghanistan before the American invasion and met Osama bin laden. Upon their subsequent arrests in Pakistan they maintained that they were visiting Afghanistan for food, water & other humanitarian works for Afghanistan. But it’s a known fact that for Al Qaeda & Taliban, the only bases of existence is fear, intimidation & misery for all unfortunate enough to be around them. It is highly likely that they were there to help Al Qaeda in making a radio active or dirty bomb. They were arrested in 2001 along with a third unnamed scientist. All of them were close associated of Dr Abdul Qadir Khan

Known characters of the international nuclear ring
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Muhammad Farooq: former KRL manager & close associate of Dr Qadir. Dismissed and currently under arrest.
Buhay Sayed Abu Tahir: A Sri-Lankan a middleman working between Dubai & Malaysia. Currently in Malaysian prison.
Asher Karni: An Israeli businessman currently in US custody. He is believed to have sold secrets to KRL.

There are many more people apart from above that include shady businessmen, smugglers, freelancers and opportunist scientists. The ruthlessness of Dr Qadir’s operations can be gauged from the fact that his Dubai computer company front office also employed Indian nationals. Whether Dr Qadir knowingly allowed that is not clear but what is clear is that if Pakistani state was the part of Dr Qadir’s nuclear proliferation then it would never have allowed a possibility of Pakistani nuclear secrets falling in Indian hands.

The Beginning of the End
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Once Dr Qadir had an independent nuclear program organisation KRL under his sole authority, he was only answerable to the president and had the security, finance and operations under himself alone. As said by Lord Acton "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

Sadly it seems to be true with Dr AQ Khan, one might not doubt his initial motivation in helping the country to achieve the nuclear status but after getting un-audited access to national resources, unquestioned operations and lack of control over time resulted in venturing into not so noble territory of personal greed. It might have been a defiance of the west and rebellion towards the secrecy & exclusiveness of nuclear know how. It might have been a religious motivation to equip Muslim nations with nuclear power in case of Libya, Iran and Iraq and purely financial in case of North Korea.

The reason for offering nuclear technology to above countries can be a combination of all 3 or 2 at a time but fact remains that it compromised the position of Pakistan very severely and almost brought Pakistani installations in the cross hairs of Israel and crippling sanctions and economic boycott by the rest of the world.

The command structure
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It was almost non existent from the 70s from ZA Bhutto to Gulam Ishaq Khan who for the first time brought Army chief in the loop. Otherwise it was president directly communicating with Dr Qadir Khan. It further extended to prime minister to DGCD (director general combat development) to whom Dr Qadir was to report. There was no one else in the army in this chain and even the DGMO who is supposed to deal with all sensitive military planning and operational issues was kept out of the loop. General Musharraf for the first time presented the idea of NCA (nuclear command authority) & government based secretariat overseeing the operational, security & financial issues of our nuclear program during Nawaz premiership. This was the time when Pakistan also had conducted its nuclear tests and a better coordination between KRL and PAEC was needed but the proposal only came into practice after Pakistan Army overtook power from Nawaz government.

NCA is the top of the structure with president, prime minister, key federal ministers, military chiefs and senior scientists. It is responsible for development & employment of strategic assets planning.

A Secretariat called SPD (strategic plans division) under DG from army implements the NCA planning & overseeing the strategic assets. This secretariat also oversees the financial, operational and security matters relating to our scientific organisations.
All 3 armed forces made their own strategic commands that actually handled the strategic assets in the field while the control was still held centrally with NCA.

The formation of this strategic structure is what led to the exposure of hidden activities of Dr Qadir & his close associates that were not sanctioned by the past or present Pakistani governments.

Lt. Gen. Khalid Kidwai, commander of Pakistan's Strategic Planning and Development Cell, described Khan as the mastermind of an elaborate and wholly unauthorized smuggling network involving chartered cargo flights, clandestine overseas meetings and a Malaysian factory that reconditioned centrifuge parts discarded from Pakistan's nuclear program for sale to foreign clients.

Confession & the blame game
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It was a national disgrace and hard time for any Pakistani when Dr Abdul Qadir read a confession in front of the nation on February 2004. Like millions of Pakistanis I believed that he scarified himself for Pakistan in the face of mounting international pressure and took the whole blame. This indeed was an act true to his title of national hero. He was immediately given the presidential pardon and all foreign requests for his debriefings were refused. This was the right move and least Musharraf’s and present government could do.

Dr Qadir’s subsequent behaviour after the national apology was anything but selfless heroism

Dr Qadir claims that the confession was forced on him. So does it mean that he was not willing to sacrifice himself in the face of mounting international pressure on Pakistan? Where according to USA, Pakistan was exposed in nuclear proliferation to worse regimes in the world. Was his personal pride and ego more precious than what dire consequences awaited Pakistan? Hardly a selfless sacrifice.

If he had no intention of confessing and taking the blame then what alternative did he have in mind? Did he want Pakistan to bluff like Sadam Hussein? What if USA had called the bluff and did what it has done to Afghanistan & Iraq? I don’t think only economic sanctions would have satisfied America after such a large scale of proliferation. Again personal pride above national interests was at play.

If Dr Qadir was unhappy with the way he was singled out & wanted others to share the blame too again how did he think that would have saved Pakistan? Or was that never in his mind or consideration?

His subsequent statements are also self contradictory. On one hand he says he sacrificed himself by taking the blame and on the other hand he says his confession was forced upon him. If he was forced then why the claim of sacrifice? Or was he protesting a forced sacrifice like a lamb? Where he had no say? This again brings back the validity of the heroic claim.

The fact remains that his confession, forced or willing, true or untrue put the heat off Pakistan and its nuclear program. It resulted in the arrests of the scientists that were pro-Taliban & Al Qaeda. This is clearly an aspect which no government or security organisation could have ever dared to venture.

He still has the chance to take the credit for saving Pakistan today because with the passage of time, today Pakistan is able to offer its nuclear fuel processing services. If there had been no confession and the ambiguity about the Pakistani nuclear proliferation existed today then any such offer was unthinkable. A brutally embargoed and boycotted country without the oil wealth like Libya or Iran, our country would have crumbled years ago.

Threats, denials & revenge
======================
Why AQ Khan threatens to blow the lid off Pakistani secrets? And that too, to foreign media. Western media has a special disdain and cynical attitude towards Pakistan where it never spares any moment to malign its army , secret service and people. Apparently the noble hero managed to pass his secrets to his daughter abroad. It is these documents that are believed to have been smuggled out of the country by Dina, Khan's older daughter, is also thought to hold the key to some of Khan's extremely lucrative real estate investments in the UK that were funded by his nuclear sales. Khan had agreed to surrender the documents in return for a blanket pardon, but failed to do so. The government has been trying to retrieve the documents since Dr Khan was offered a presidential pardon last week but they are yet to receive them.


Doctor Abdul Qadir claims that army was aware of his proliferation operations. He claims that General Aslam Baig was aware and actually authorised the sale of nuclear secrets to Iran. General Baig denies this claim. If there was even a remote possibility of truth then Musharraf would have happily put the blame on previous governments and army chiefs but that didn’t happen. Doctor Qadir’s claim can be easily dismissed because both Saudi and USA are Pakistan’s main financial & military suppliers. Selling nuclear know how to their arch enemy in the region would have been a suicide. Dr Qadir also blamed Gen Karamat too who also denies doctor’s claim.

I cant shake off a scary thought that Doctor Abdul Qadir is on revenge course against the Pakistani state. He seems to be begging USA to punish Pakistan for its nuclear program and use one of its future tech weapons to neutralise whatever strategic assets we have. If he continues with his current antics then USA might put any such plans in action.

While Pakistan will be licking its wounds, Dr Abdul Qadir ego would be satisfied. Mastan Khan keeps mentioning the beast in Afghanistan airbase that reminds me about global hawk and the American airborne laser weapons that can not only knock out missiles in the air but on the ground including any sensitive equipments and vital parts in sensitive installations high above in the sky well above the stratosphere while the targets on the ground wont even know what hit them.



Conclusion
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I would sum up this post with few questions
What about Hamid Gul, why is he silent he was DG ISI, does he admit that things were happening under his nose? Or does he choose to play safe and keep quiet? And remain in the anti government/ anti- Musharraf camp? Benazir had also blamed lack of control over the activities of KRL activities and Abdul Qadirs refusal to appraise her about the nuclear program. It seems that there are a whole lot of people who are either quiet or denying Dr Abdul Qadir’s claims. Gen Baig who is now openly anti Musharraf could have confirmed Doctor’s claims at the expense of Musharraf but he didn’t.

So my dear pro Abdul Qadir friends you are left with a dilemma here
Who do you believe? Gen Hamid Gul ? Nawaz Sherif or Hamid Mir?
If you take Gen Hamid Gul then you can bet to listen to his usual opening phrases of knowing everything because he can read the minds of the west & Taliban as he has worked with both.

Then its tiger turned lion (since hair implants on his scalp) Nawaz Sherif who is famous for not knowing @rse from elbow hence doesn’t know anything about the pardon deal with Musharraf, Kargil issue, the attack on Supreme court etc. so these two great anti Musharraf personalities have two mutually exclusive responses. the result is null. Well that leaves us with Hamid Mir and capital talk
…….enjoy




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* There is no mistake in the heading, I chose liars instead of lawyers on purpose.
** There was one claim for a single car for 145 litres of patrol at one time. I have yet to find any 5 door Saloon that has such a big fuel tank
- Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry Petrol Choor


1 J. Robert Oppenheimer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2. Albert Einstein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Waffen_SS]

Hello,

You may like to have a look at this:

Munir Ahmad Khan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Munir Ahmad Khan | Facebook

[MastanKhan]

Irfan Baloch,

Thankyou very much for the post----now if you have the chance to read the Ajax conspiracy and then compare the characters that were used to overthrow Mussadaq---and then compare them to those in pakistan----the modus operandi the same.

I can tell you---I saw a change in the tone of PPP members coming on ther TV during the uprising---their diction---their mannerism---their game plan and tactics were far superior to any that had been seen in pakistan in the past---and on this board I posted that these politicians have been through some training sessions---.

And then when Benazir died---and a certain group of people went on a rampage and burnt down trains and did damage to a lot of fixed operations in pakistan---I was sure what had happened---.

But the problem is---you can only talk to someone who can understand your language---. I would just sit down helplessly looking at every action unfold before my eyes and and I am talking to myself about how this thing will progressand unfold---there was nothing surprising---only surprise was that there was no one on the pak side---who noticed it coming. A tragedy.

[PakSher]

We have beaten this thread to death. Beating a dead horse will not get us anywhere.

[Irfan Baloch]

Here is the link for the whole article

Pakistan's Nuclear Program: Setting the Record Straight

Please focus on the last paragraph of this article -- it is an indicator as to what AQK is doing to the image of Pakistan. Do read it and let me know your opinions. THX

my opinion is that Dr AQ Khan is an egotistic and fame hungry scientist
who wants to claim all the glory of nuclear program to himself and always saw any other person with a similar or relevent potential in nuclear physics as a threat.

Dr AQ Khan wants the Pakistan to acknowledge him as the sole founder of the nuclear program and dismiss all others who were part of this process as irrelevent and insignificant.

[Aamir Hussain]

Are you trying to insult me or Pakistan's army or both?

Get over yourself please... The world does not revolve around you...

Dear Lord!!!

Speaking the plain truth is not insulting and in my opinion and I am sure many of us on this forum would also agree with me that MastanKhan Sahib did not insult anyone. So let us try to stay away from sweeping statements.

On your obsession with getting an "Army" person to comment on the strengths of our Armed Forces vis a vis US and its military capability let us wait and see if someone comes along and clears your doubts.

Meanwhile, continuing the debate; ever wonder why successive Pakistani Military leadership did not go against the US plan? More than anyone else, they know their strength and their weaknesses. Even more than the civilian political leadership.

Pakistani Armed Forces and it leadership is there to defend the Idealogical and physical boundaries of our country and not to push us into a suicide situation. Time and again they have proved this by taking actions based upon the ground realities. Do not be taken in by the loud claims by our military leaders, they are for morale building and keeping our regional neighbors guessing. That is there job.

The more sober appreciation of the ground reality is reflected in their on ground actions -- cooperation on war on terror, part of the supply chain for NATO operations in Afghanistan and ongoing operations in th Arabian Sea. This was not only during the term of Musharrf but more so now during the term of Kiyani and please do not come back with the Zardari thingi -- we all know the defense, foreign, Kashmir, Afghan, & the WoT policy is made in GHQ Rawalpindi. And Kiyani is considered to be more professional than Gen. Musharraf.

[Always Neutral]

What I dont understand about this affair is this...

If America, Soviet Union, Britain and France can have nukes... Countries which have the blood of hundreds and thousands on their hands due to their colonialist policies... why cant other countries have nukes?

and in our Dr Qadeer affair... We tend to not discuss the role of a well known traitor... Libya's Moamar Qadafi who proved his loyalty to UK by first luring Qadeer Khan into his trap and then informing his masters in London about the whole issue... Britain disclosed the whole affair only to save the regime of Qadhafi because the country next in the list of America for regime change after Iraq was Libya...

Do we still have a hockey stadium in Lahore named after the dog Qadhafi?

Just a small question. What are you doing in the land of the Masters of Libya?

Regards

[Always Neutral]

1. Announce the re establishment of Khilafah
2. Abolish Capitalist economics
3. Default on IMF/World Bank Loans4. Announce the Durand Line to be null and void and that an American attack on Afghanistan would be considered an attack on Pakistan itself.
As for the topic... Listen to what AQK is saying... Leave me alone, I am not incharge of the nuke program anymore!!!!

Brave words from a man who is living in the land of his colonial masters hopefully legally, enjoying the fruits of capitalism.

Regards

[krash]

well the thing is that AQ Khan did work for Pakistan and had an important role in our nukes development... Was nt his role important in the centrifuge process...

He may have been trying to make money using his position... but the question remains... if the US and all these other colonialist and cruel countries possess nukes why cant other countries possess them...

because they are powerful and we are not, they have the standing that we do not. In the real world it's their right to do so (or do whatever they like e.g. declare anyone a "terrorist state") solely because they can. Want to stop them? then let us stop barking and grow some teeth, let us stop crying and make something out of our selves, something honorable , something dignified and something powerful. its about time.

[Waffen_SS]

I will really appreciate if you upload those pics.
You go to tinypic.com
thare you see upload button>browse the pic & proceed....after each upload it will provide you with various set of links. copy/paste the links from Forum code section into this forum reply box

It will start something like [IMG]....

Here is the photo of one of the several cold tests carried out by PAEC under Munir Ahmad Khan during the 1980s. This one is from 1983-84 outside one of the tunnels at the cold test site. You can see Munir Khan along with Ghulam Ishaq Khan, Gen. K.M. Arif, then VCOAS, and Dr. Ishfaq Ahmad, then Member (Technical), PAEC.

Pakistan's Nuclear Program: Setting the Record Straight

[nightcrawler]

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---

Here is the photo of one of the several cold tests carried out by PAEC under Munir Ahmad Khan during the 1980s. This one is from 1983-84 outside one of the tunnels at the cold test site. You can see Munir Khan along with Ghulam Ishaq Khan, Gen. K.M. Arif, then VCOAS, and Dr. Ishfaq Ahmad, then Member (Technical), PAEC.

Pakistan's Nuclear Program: Setting the Record Straight

it asks me for username/password??