PAF Bus Attacked

[shehbazi2001]

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According to news reports of today, a PAF bus has been attacked and several personnel (13 till now) have died and several are injured. This is not the first attack on PAF. I put this news in a separate thread so that this issue can be discussed separately.

Just after this news, a thought came to my mind that PAF was the most respected institution in Pakistan. On 7th Sept and then 6th Sept (Air Force Day), thousands of people from all age groups and all backgrounds used to visit our airbases and everyone took interest.

Once on air force day, I was in PAF base Peshawar and I heard a small boy (hardly of 3-4 years age) telling his sister about aircrafts. That small boy pointed to Mirage and told his sister " that aircraft is Mirage". I was extremely amazed to see this scene.

Now day by day, the respect is coming down due to PAF's involvement in WOT. If the involvement continues, it will not be good I think for the PAF. Irrespective of the material loss, loss of image and respect is the greatest loss.

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Bomb hits Pakistan air force bus

13 killed in Peshawar blast

[maqsad]

I am dissapointed that saboteurs were able to kill 13 PAF personel but I am also utterly disgusted and angry that they could do this so easily due to the incompetence and stupidity of security personel. Every single bridge in the country should have at least two CCTVs watching it. As many other sensitive areas as possible should also be under constant electronic surveillance.

It is absolutely disgraceful for it to be so easy to make a mockery out of Pak armed forces.

[fatman17]

According to news reports of today, a PAF bus has been attacked and several personnel (13 till now) have died and several are injured. This is not the first attack on PAF. I put this news in a separate thread so that this issue can be discussed separately.

Just after this news, a thought came to my mind that PAF was the most respected institution in Pakistan. On 7th Sept and then 6th Sept (Air Force Day), thousands of people from all age groups and all backgrounds used to visit our airbases and everyone took interest.

Once on air force day, I was in PAF base Peshawar and I heard a small boy (hardly of 3-4 years age) telling his sister about aircrafts. That small boy pointed to Mirage and told his sister " that aircraft is Mirage". I was extremely amazed to see this scene.

Now day by day, the respect is coming down due to PAF's involvement in WOT. If the involvement continues, it will not be good I think for the PAF. Irrespective of the material loss, loss of image and respect is the greatest loss.

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Bomb hits Pakistan air force bus

13 killed in Peshawar blast

very sad news! what are the alternatives! let the militants run all over us!

[shehbazi2001]

I think the use of force and military counter attack is justified only when the tribals or say militants collectively come out of FATA and try to capture the settled areas or say main cities of the settled areas.

Untill they are in their own belt, no action is justified.

[x_man]

I think the use of force and military counter attack is justified only when the tribals or say militants collectively come out of FATA and try to capture the settled areas or say main cities of the settled areas.

Untill they are in their own belt, no action is justified.

Shehbazi, IMO till now PAFs offensive participation has been limited in this WoT due to nature of targets, complexity of terrain, choice of weapons available and few miscellaneous reasons…

I understand that PAF does enjoy a good reputation because of its past/present operational roles and neutrality from politics etc and PAF would like to maintain her posture BUT please take also in the consideration that her men were never bombed in town/cities in last 60 years….Sentiments were already very high in Airforce after Sargodha blast, and after this one, I think that there will be some show of power from PAF…

May God bless the departed souls…

[su-47]

May the souls of the victims rest in peace. Only cowards attack buses full of unarmed men. May those who are responsible be bought to justice.

[dk33]

I think the use of force and military counter attack is justified only when the tribals or say militants collectively come out of FATA and try to capture the settled areas or say main cities of the settled areas.

Untill they are in their own belt, no action is justified.

The citizens of the Tribal belt who are not militants deserves some respect and protection from the state as well.

Mainstream Pakistan cannot entirely detach itself from what happens in the Tribal belt - not unless you want to tell the Tribal belt to not be part of Pakistan anymore, and erect a wall separating it from Pakistan.

If it is considered Pakistani territory,then Pakistan has certain responsibilities to ensure that it is not used for terrorism or other illegal activities. If we should not do anything until as you say the Taliban attempt to 'capture settled areas', then we should also do nothing when NATO says it wants to enter FATA in hot pursuit and aerial bombings, since the Taliban have attacked their area of control.

DO not also forget that the TTP has said several times that it is able to take over Karachi and other major cities. This might just be bravado, but it indicates that the TTP has chosen to diffuse its assets into mainstream Pakistan - therefore, even the extremely high bar (incorrect in my opinion) for intervention that you have argued for has been met at this point.

The PAF personnel being martyred is a tragedy - but the job of the Armed forces is not about winning popularity contests, it is to protect the citizens of the state - and if the government determines that there is an internal threat to the state that the military needs to address, then it is their duty to address that threat.

[dk33]

An issue of concern remains how the militants are able to obtain accurate information to target the security forces, even outside the Tribal belt.

That this is a major issue was obvious from the series of attacks on the ISI personnel, and in one incident the attackers even knowing the hand signals of a high ranking officer (which were changed , and happened to be out of date and hence damage was minimized in that particular suicide bombing).

In this context the refusal of the US to provide the electronic intercept equipment to Pakistan can now be said to be having a direct impact on the number of casualties we are suffering.

[pkpatriotic]

Bomb hits Pakistan military truck, up to 14 dead - Yahoo! News
By RIAZ KHAN, Associated Press Writer
36 minutes ago
PESHAWAR, Pakistan - A roadside bomb hit a Pakistan air force truck in a northwestern city Tuesday, killing as many as 14 people including a 5-year-old girl in the latest violence in the volatile region.

Meanwhile, Pakistani officials said they were investigating whether a suspected militant reported killed in ongoing clashes in a nearby tribal region was a senior al-Qaida commander.

The blast hit the vehicle on a bridge on the outskirts of Peshawar, provincial police chief Malik Naveed Khan said. The truck was traveling between the city and the nearby air force base in Badaber.

Interior Ministry chief Rehman Malik said al-Qaida-linked militants were likely behind the attack. He said Pakistan had been taking action against Taliban militants, but did not say whether Tuesday's attack could be a response to recent military operations in the region.

The powerful explosion tore a large hole in the bridge, reducing the Mazda truck to a smoldering wreck. The site was littered with debris, blood and also the mangled wreckage of a motorcycle.

A crowd of bystanders gathered at the scene as victims were ferried away in ambulances. Firefighters hosed down the blackened carcass of the truck, and air force investigators gathered evidence.

An AP Television News cameraman at the scene said he saw at least 12 dead bodies and about a dozen wounded people. He said the victims included civilians.

There were varying accounts of the toll.

Provincial government spokesman Mian Iftikhar Hussain said 14 people were killed in all, mostly air force personnel, and more than 12 people were wounded.

Jehangir Khan, another police officer, said seven air force personnel and five civilians were killed in the bombing. Fourteen other people were injured, he said.

A 5-year-old girl in a nearby vehicle was among the dead, said Nisar Khan, a Peshawar police officer. He said police were trying to trace relatives of the girl.

A bomb disposal officer at the scene, who requested anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media, said it was planted under the bridge and contained between 66 and 88 pounds (30 and 40 kilograms) of explosives.

The bombing follows threats from Taliban militants that they would launch attacks on the government in retaliation for military operations in the northwestern region bordering Afghanistan.

A senior Interior Ministry official confirmed Tuesday that authorities were probing the identity of a suspected militant reported killed this week in clashes in Bajur tribal region, where the army has pounded militant positions.

A senior intelligence official identified the militant as an Egyptian known as Abu Saeed and said he was believed to be a close aide of al-Qaida No. 2 leader Ayman al-Zawahri. He said authorities had intelligence the militant had died but did not have the body.

A top al-Qaida commander in Afghanistan, Mustafa Abu al-Yazeed, who had appeared in videos issued by the terror group, is also known by the alias Abu Saeed al-Masri.

The ministry official said Pakistani authorities were trying to confirm whether the Abu Saeed reported killed was the same man. Both officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to release the information.

Two Taliban spokesmen contacted by The Associated Press in Afghanistan, Qari Yousef Ahmadi and Zabiullah Mujahid, said Tuesday that they had no information about it.

In late July, an al-Qaida explosives and poison expert, Abu Khabab al-Masri, died in a suspected U.S. missile strike in the Pakistani border region of South Waziristan.

Early Tuesday, Pakistani army gunship helicopters shelled suspected militant positions in Bajur, which lies further north along the rugged Afghan-Pakistan frontier.

The shelling struck a house in Takht village, about six miles (10 kilometers) south of Bajur's main town of Khar, killing five suspected militants and wounding three other people, a local intelligence official and a resident said.

The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media. Said Khan, a Takht resident, said the house was believed to be a gathering point for Taliban militants.

Officials have said at least 100 militants and nine paramilitary troops have been killed since last week, although independent confirmation of the toll has not been possible. Thousands of residents have reportedly fled the area.

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Associated Press writer Habib Khan in Khar and Munir Ahmad in Islamabad contributed to this report.

[shehbazi2001]

The citizens of the Tribal belt who are not militants deserves some respect and protection from the state as well.

Mainstream Pakistan cannot entirely detach itself from what happens in the Tribal belt - not unless you want to tell the Tribal belt to not be part of Pakistan anymore, and erect a wall separating it from Pakistan.

If it is considered Pakistani territory,then Pakistan has certain responsibilities to ensure that it is not used for terrorism or other illegal activities. If we should not do anything until as you say the Taliban attempt to 'capture settled areas', then we should also do nothing when NATO says it wants to enter FATA in hot pursuit and aerial bombings, since the Taliban have attacked their area of control.

DO not also forget that the TTP has said several times that it is able to take over Karachi and other major cities. This might just be bravado, but it indicates that the TTP has chosen to diffuse its assets into mainstream Pakistan - therefore, even the extremely high bar (incorrect in my opinion) for intervention that you have argued for has been met at this point.

The PAF personnel being martyred is a tragedy - but the job of the Armed forces is not about winning popularity contests, it is to protect the citizens of the state - and if the government determines that there is an internal threat to the state that the military needs to address, then it is their duty to address that threat.

The present act of attacking PAF vehicle cant be justified but I am more concerned about the fact that the same people who loved PAF are now attacking it.

For action inside FATA, only FC has the mandate. Yes sometimes the govt may need to carry out some action and FC is there. FC should be equipped with latest gadgets for this purpose.

During a visit to Bala Hisar Fort in Peshawar a few years ago, I saw extremely outdated equipment being used by FC especially the communication equipment.

Use of regular forces should be as a last resort, used only in case of grave danger like taking over of cities of settled areas. But this is my personal opinion.

Pakistan has done very little to protect tribals in all history of Pakistan.
GoP (using RPAF) has been launching attack on them since 1947. In the whole Afghan war of Soviet Occupation, these were tribals who suffered. Even now, they are suffering.

At the end, its been long time that Army has started operations in FATA. Now can we tell what has been achieved till now....

[shehbazi2001]

I came across a very nice article on use of air power in NWFP and Afghanistan by British with historic photos and wanted to share it,

Khyber Gateway >> Aviation History of the Frontier


Here it is amazing that Col Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia), who initiated a revolt in arab world against turkish rule during First World War, was also sent to NWFP to test his genius.

[dk33]

The present act of attacking PAF vehicle cant be justified but I am more concerned about the fact that the same people who loved PAF are now attacking it.

For action inside FATA, only FC has the mandate. Yes sometimes the govt may need to carry out some action and FC is there. FC should be equipped with latest gadgets for this purpose.

During a visit to Bala Hisar Fort in Peshawar a few years ago, I saw extremely outdated equipment used by FC especially the communication equipment.

Use of regular forces should be as a last resort, used only in case of grave danger like taking over of cities of settled areas.

Pakistan has done very little to protect tribals in all history of Pakistan.
PAF has been launching attack on them since 1947. In the whole Afghan war of Soviet Occupation, these were tribals who suffered. Even now, they are suffering.

At the end, its been long time that Army has started operations in FATA. Now can we tell what has been achieved till now....

The people who 'loved PAF' never loved it as much as they loved their religion, that much is clear in how those attacking it now owe their allegiances to a perverted, violent and obscurantist form of Islam that has no place in this world. Their loyalties were always to that interpretation of Islam, and now that the state is in conflict with it, Pakistan be damned they say.

I agree with you that within FATA it is the FC that should be primarily used, and the FC desperately needs capacity building to become a more effective force. Gen. Kiyani has argued in favor of that, and has in fact earned himself some enemies in the US defense establishment for that position, of refusing to deploy the regular army as the first option.

But even with all the capacity building of the FC, it is not possible to turn it into a force with its own aircraft and gunships without massive investment and time, and for a country with Pakistan's meager resources it is not a feasible undertaking at all.

Instead of creating more redundancy of capabilities, the PAF and Army aviation should be utilized for providing air support to the FC, and that is exactly what has been happening for the most part, specifically in Bajaur - so I fail to see what exactly is being done currently that does not fit the template for conducting operations that you would prefer.

Successive governments in Pakistan have failed the Tribal belt, have failed the people of Balochistan,and they have failed the people of rural Sindh and Punjab. The point here is that allowing the Taliban to conquer the entire Tribal belt and not combating the menace would be one more failure in that list.

As to the efficacy of military operations in FATA so far - they have failed because they have not been sustained and peace deals have been struck allowing the militants to recoup their losses and establish and bolster their training centers and resources. Every time we have backed down the militants have been emboldened and reached even further.

Even this operation will fail unless it is sustained and extended to the other agencies until the Taliban menace is driven out of its strongholds and turned into what the Kashmir insurgency has turned into in India -- A rag tag group of fighters who have to sneak from one village in the mountains to the next in order to avoid FC and Army patrols -- Not the militia's numbering in the thousands that have commandeered the resources of their entire Tribes, and set up supporting infrastructure and systematic sources of revenue from both legitimate and illegitimate businesses, that we have currently.

I am by no means arguing that military force is the only option, as we do clear out these dens of evil, there is an immediate need to rehabilitate the affected families and start investing in infrastructure and development, and win the people over to our side. But we cannot initiate development when schools and business considered immoral are being blown up and militias roam free, threatening and murdering people.

[Neo]

Sad news :(
R.I.P.

[araz]

Sad news :(
R.I.P.

Another sad and unnecessary loss. It should now be apparent to every body that Pakistan and its forces are in a state of War with these miscreants. I think losses are bound to occur, not that is is not sad. We need to continue with the utmost resolve, till the achievement of our aims . i think even thinking along the lines of a peace accord without total and utter capitulation to the writ of Law of the land, surrender of high calibre weapons(even if we have to buy them)and expulsion of all foreign elements from the region would be a folly of mammoth proportions.
Araz

[batmannow]

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there is only way to finish this all and once, which is an absolute show of power on THESE SO CALLED TALIBANS.

THESE idiots are thinking to spread islam with barrel of gun or by not letting grils go to learn in schools , each one of their leader wants to become a SAHABA!!!
i cant understand the logic, using FC against these crriminals, why dont , use full force with some and selected platoons OF SOF? WHY CANT WE USE LASSER GUIDED misilles against them, wht i mean is tht PAKARMY , still not going after them! i guss , whenever PAKARMY decides to go for real full flaged war against these crimminals , i am sure that, they will not find any wall which can saves thier backs.

PA, should stop using COBRAS instead , PA should give war plan to PAF? so that, PAF can put real show time on these cowrds and also show some black borad to the enemys on the other side of the line.