Pakistan army says US scapegoating

[Abu Zolfiqar]

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now that we've all done our preliminary yapping, I'd like to see Lt. Gen. Rabbani's arguments broken down


i.e. what is it about what he said that is incorrected, or invalid

"over simplifying"

Solomon, you're much wiser than that; come on, where's that skillful spin on your part.

[Solomon2]

now that we've all done our preliminary yapping, I'd like to see Lt. Gen. Rabbani's arguments broken down -

Which is a very good reason for popping the corked bottle that Pakistan's generals and government have been taking advantage of.

[Irfan Baloch]

Actually I agree with most of your post. What I fail to understand, and criticize, is the Pakistani failure to capitalize on all this effort into tangible political and economic benefits internationally.

beats me too

once it does that we will be kissing the hands of each other for the job well done.

[Solomon2]

Actually I agree with most of your post. What I fail to understand, and criticize, is the Pakistani failure to capitalize on all this effort into tangible political and economic benefits internationally.

It's what AZ siad, Vcheng:

"What PA wont do is be told when to go in where. It's our God dam country and they'll do whatever they damnwell please whenever they damnwell please."

You see, what the PA won't acknowledge is that in addition to sovereign privileges there are also sovereign obligations. Yet as Anatol Liven describes it in Pakistan: A Hard Country, this goes against the Pakistani ethic (a value shared by all) that a Pakistani in a position of authority is always a Pakistani who uses that authority to his personal advantage, rather than as his duty to the community and State should dictate. That attitude can be tolerated in domestic government where the little people have no choice but to put up with it, but I imagine it's very offensive to Pakistani officials when foreign officials tell them they HAVE to do something as a matter of duty. They don't see a duty to their own populace so why should they treat foreign officials any better? Hence the resort to half-effective measures like rewards and bribes.

[VCheng]

It's what AZ siad, Vcheng:

"What PA wont do is be told when to go in where. It's our God dam country and they'll do whatever they damnwell please whenever they damnwell please."

You see, what the PA won't acknowledge is that in addition to sovereign privileges there are also sovereign obligations. Yet as Anatol Liven describes it in Pakistan: A Hard Country, this goes against the Pakistani ethic (a value shared by all) that a Pakistani in a position of authority is always a Pakistani who uses that authority to his personal advantage, rather than as his duty to the community and State should dictate. That attitude can be tolerated in domestic government where the little people have no choice but to put up with it, but I imagine it's very offensive to Pakistani officials when foreign officials tell them they HAVE to do something as a matter of duty. They don't see a duty to their own populace so why should they treat foreign officials any better? Hence the resort to half-effective measures like rewards and bribes.

It is clear that you have much to learn about Pakistan still.

What AZ said is only one manifestation of the culture of impunity that Liven refers to, and only to be expected. It is not his fault, but rather of his training. What is really clever of the Pakistan Army is that it is able to enjoy all the sovereign privileges by itself while passing all the sovereign obligations to the state. Masterful, if you ask me!

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Which is a very good reason for popping the corked bottle that Pakistan's generals and government have been taking advantage of.

Solomon, instead of being in a rush to reply just for the sake of replying - take your time, calmly, and give me something better to work with than that

It's what AZ siad, Vcheng:

"What PA wont do is be told when to go in where. It's our God dam country and they'll do whatever they damnwell please whenever they damnwell please."

You see, what the PA won't acknowledge is that in addition to sovereign privileges there are also sovereign obligations. Yet as Anatol Liven describes it in Pakistan: A Hard Country, this goes against the Pakistani ethic (a value shared by all) that a Pakistani in a position of authority is always a Pakistani who uses that authority to his personal advantage, rather than as his duty to the community and State should dictate. That attitude can be tolerated in domestic government where the little people have no choice but to put up with it, but I imagine it's very offensive to Pakistani officials when foreign officials tell them they HAVE to do something as a matter of duty. They don't see a duty to their own populace so why should they treat foreign officials any better? Hence the resort to half-effective measures like rewards and bribes.

what is "offensive" is double standards and blatant hypocrisy



(we can discuss CIA "contractors", diplomats that disobey police orders while driving with illegal bore weapons, media trials, and aggression that leaves 24 of our troops dead in an all-out hostile confrontation - for another time)

[VCheng]

:..............
what is "offensive" is double standards and blatant hypocrisy........................

But what I will say time and again is that Pakistan (and its many cybermicrocosms such as this forum) should be able to respond much more intelligently than they have been!

If you find the double standards offensive, what are you going to do about it? That is the more important and relevant strategy for the disadvantaged party: to be able to challenge and set the standards yourself. Screaming yourself hoarse is never going to achieve that, for sure. It takes calm and rational thinking to avert disaster in the short term, while building yourself up with education and hard work in the long term that does that, every time.

[Abingdonboy]

I'm sorry but of course the PA would say this. But given all the evidence it is clear the problems in Afghanistan are as a direct result of what exists in Pakistan- all the US can do in Afghanistan is treat the symptoms not the cause because that lies across the border where they are limited in acsess.


+how can you blame the US when OBL was in Pakistan under, apparent, protection in some form by the Pakistani state?

[Rod of God]

Pakistan has parts of their country where their own military CAN'T GO !! The TRIBES won't let them. W.T.F. is THAT all about ? It's like saying, "Hey, New Jersey is off limits, Obama !

[VCheng]

Pakistan has parts of their country where their own military CAN'T GO !! The TRIBES won't let them. W.T.F. is THAT all about ? It's like saying, "Hey, New Jersey is off limits, Obama !

Well, to be honest, certain parts of the south probably are off limits to him once he is no longer President!

[Rod of God]

... once he is no longer President!

Can't happen soon enough.

[VCheng]

Can't happen soon enough.

May be you are right, but you will have to wait for the election results.

[indianrabbit]

Well the problem is Army is not honest in their statements proven by track records. They take people for ride and apparently people like the ride so much they are willing to take it again and again.

Hopeless case, when people are unwilling to change and learn.

[Pakistanisage]

Well the mighty US Administration and the US Army has decided that it is time to "Cut and Run" in Afghanistan so they will definitely use Pakistan Army as a scapegoat to justify their failure to the American people. It will be hard to explain how the mightiest Army of the world's lone Superpower has to evacuate Afghanistan leaving the country in chaos and shambles.

[Rod of God]

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Well the mighty US Administration and the US Army has decided that it is time to "Cut and Run"

We've been there 10 years and announced a year in advance when we'd leave. Hardly 'cut and run."

in Afghanistan so they will definitely use Pakistan Army as a scapegoat to justify their failure to the American people.

I'm 'the AMERICAN people' and I don't think it was a failure. I was all for killing the jerkoffs that did 9/11, and we more or less did. Funny thing was, most, including the HEAD JERKOFF were living in PAKISTAN !! How'd THAT happen?

It will be hard to explain how the mightiest Army of the world's lone Superpower has to evacuate Afghanistan leaving the country in chaos and shambles.

If you remember correctly,(which I doubt) the place was ALREADY 'IN CHAOS AND SHAMBLES' when we got there. The Taliban was running the place, and not too well.