Wesley Clark ( US 4 Star General ) US will attack 7 countries in 5 years.

[Irfan Baloch]

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I put a lots of blame on pakistanis and pakistani generals for the murder of millions of afghan and iraqi muslims at the hands of the american millitary. They both have failed miserably at reading history.
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I dont agree with the red part
or let me re-phrase.. I dont understand about our liability over Iraqi deaths.
I agree with the rest of the post though

[Respect4Respect01]

watch the full video lol

he said, "Afghanistan, Iraq, then move to Lebanon,Sudan,Syria,Libya and Somalia."

[Solomon2]

nice

so Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney and Wolfgang are the sane and the noble ones. intellect and reasoning dripping from them whenever they walk or open their mouth. results for all to see.

Imagine what the U.S. would be like without civilian control of the military. We'd have Clarks running the show and there would be unnecessary conflicts all the time, Americans minds being distorted to support the military efforts...even U.S. soldiers would be disgusted at the levels of deceit.

[Hasbara Buster]

General Clark was so angry when the Russians disobeyed KFOR's U.N. command to take over Tirana Airport that he wanted to open fire on them. Doing so could have unnecessarily started WWIII.

A very dangerous man as the record shows his outlook is distorted. Less greatness and more honesty, please.

He has changed, that's the point.

[Solomon2]

He has changed, that's the point.

Maybe. But as a general rule I don't trust mature multi-star generals to change their minds for the better - regardless of what nation they come from.

[FaujHistorian]

Bravo!

So nice to see a mature post based on real-politic.

Pakistan with its 200 million population and 1 million West-trained army (with global role that goes back 200 years) could have played a great part in bringing peace in the region. You are correct. our army could have been a huge help in saving masses in Iraq, Afghanistan, and close to home in Pakistan.

Unfortunately they did not. However we cannot just blame the generals.

Remember very few generals are "thinkers" and long term planners. They are not supposed to. It is not part of their training. Generals are trained to respond to calamities, wars, floods, earth quakes etc. Only a handful generals truly become thinkers and planners but then they are usually retired and had had time for introspection. They then sit down, write books, interact with other thinkers, civilians etc and develop their long term strategic views.

So the question is. if Generals cannot be long term thinkers then who would? The answer is "civilian" AND "pro-military" think tanks. These are mostly civilians strategic thinkers who provide vision to a military.

In Pakistan however we never had that partnership between academia and military.

Our academia remained Islamist and leftist, so did our bureaucracy, while military remained the only institution that was pro-West. Few civilians who did write about Pakistan and military turned out to be rabid dogs barking and yelling at the army instead of providing them a comforting longer term vision (I won't name names here as the thread will become derailed).

This created two opposing forces in Pakistan where 99.99% civilian thinkers went leftie, commie pro-Russia and pro-China, and our military went pro-USA.

This deprived our military from civilian apolitical intellectual leadership, and our generals went from crisis to crisis not too different from a chicken with its head cut off.

In other words civilian intellectual leadership was supposed to provide the thinking head, and without that our generals and our army remains a fine fighting force but unfortunately headless.

Even you Sir are yelling at generals even though your heart and mind is in the right place. How will our army get the right intellectual leadership then?


peace

Sir,

I have no access to any security material--- my 6 year old posts on this forum or 10 year old posts in other pak def forums---I have written about u s wanting to do whatsoever in iraq and later---I was not too far off---. It was in plain sight to me what the american goals were at that time.

As I have written a 100 times---pak generals should have realized that---they should have attacked and killed Osama in afghanistan or at the worst on the passes of tora bora.

The moronic mindset of every third world nations is that all of them want to make a vietnam for the united states in their back yards----these imbeciles don't understand---don't want to learn---don't want to know that vietnam was annihilated by the u s bombings.

I put a lots of blame on pakistanis and pakistani generals for the murder of millions of afghan and iraqi muslims at the hands of the american millitary. They both have failed miserably at reading history.

Pakistanis had the oppurtunity of pre-empting on the american plans---killed Osama and his cohorts and sent their heads in a bag to the u s embassy in islamabad.

To this very day---the pakistanis are arguing about how and whats of 9/11 whereas they should have been more concerned with the death misery and destruction that accompanies the u s millityary where ever it lands.

[MastanKhan]

General Clark was so angry when the Russians disobeyed KFOR's U.N. command to take over Tirana Airport that he wanted to open fire on them. Doing so could have unnecessarily started WWIII.

A very dangerous man as the record shows his outlook is distorted. Less greatness and more honesty, please.

Sir,

What a piece of bull crap----there was no 3rd ww----russia had already written those soldiers off if the americans had taken them out and nothing else would have happened except for some sabre wrattling.

But the russian had known that the democrat americans ( Clinton & co ) had no back bone to face someone who could fight back. They had judged the american politician's chicken factor very well.

General Clark was right in his judgement to attack.

What is Al qaeda---if not the child of the Clinton's. This world is paying a horific price for the nincompoops aka Bill and Mrs Clinton---they nourished the al qaeda---it was because of their non actions that al qaeda grew into what it is today---or what it had become on september 11 2001.

Here were these murderers killing and attacking the u s assets with impunity---attacking a battle ship andf the cowards in the white house were busy looking the other way.

The pakistanis should have asked Mrs Clinton---when she was there the last time---Ma'am---if you had done more when you were the president---oh excuse me---when you were the mrs president of Bill Clinton---we would not have seen this misery in our backyard.

Pakistanis should have asked every american general and sec def and everyone else----why didn't you do more when al qaeda was attacking and killing your troops in the 90's---but the idfiots don't even know what to ask----.

Pakistan has paid for the sins of the americans---for the sins of Bill and Hillary Clinton---when they did not do their fair share to protect the lives of americans.

What a tragedy---.

[MastanKhan]

Bravo!

So nice to see a mature post based on real-politic.

Pakistan with its 200 million population and 1 million West-trained army (with global role that goes back 200 years) could have played a great part in bringing peace in the region. You are correct. our army could have been a huge help in saving masses in Iraq, Afghanistan, and close to home in Pakistan.

Unfortunately they did not. However we cannot just blame the generals.

Remember very few generals are "thinkers" and long term planners. They are not supposed to. It is not part of their training. Generals are trained to respond to calamities, wars, floods, earth quakes etc. Only a handful generals truly become thinkers and planners but then they are usually retired and had had time for introspection. They then sit down, write books, interact with other thinkers, civilians etc and develop their long term strategic views.

So the question is. if Generals cannot be long term thinkers then who would? The answer is "civilian" AND "pro-military" think tanks. These are mostly civilians strategic thinkers who provide vision to a military.

In Pakistan however we never had that partnership between academia and military.

Our academia remained Islamist and leftist, so did our bureaucracy, while military remained the only institution that was pro-West. Few civilians who did write about Pakistan and military turned out to be rabid dogs barking and yelling at the army instead of providing them a comforting longer term vision (I won't name names here as the thread will become derailed).

This created two opposing forces in Pakistan where 99.99% civilian thinkers went leftie, commie pro-Russia and pro-China, and our military went pro-USA.

This deprived our military from civilian apolitical intellectual leadership, and our generals went from crisis to crisis not too different from a chicken with its head cut off.

In other words civilian intellectual leadership was supposed to provide the thinking head, and without that our generals and our army remains a fine fighting force but unfortunately headless.

Even you Sir are yelling at generals even though your heart and mind is in the right place. How will our army get the right intellectual leadership then?


peace

Hi,

How are you doing? Thank you for your post. I agree with what you are saying, but there is a reason for what I am saying. Our soldiers ie officers are more literate in the affairs of world and warfare. They are more aware of the millitary history of the world---the tactics and techniques, the strategies and gamesmanship, bluffs warfare and just simple and pure survival.

My experience of pak millitary tells me that they have lived with hate and anger towards the u s for the longest---but hate for what----for blunders of their own----that hate clouded their ability to make the right kind of judgement.

But before that----the CinC of pak millitary during GW1 retorted that the americans must not attack the iraqis--iraqis are a battle hardened force---well that was around a week before the attack---a day after the attack he had changed his mind----.

During this afg war---trhe millitary was in power----they just were clueless how to cutoff the umbilical cord with the mujahideen.

Pakistani generals needed to learn to think like successful warriors---. A good general thinks on his feet---but a great general can change direction and resource in mid-stride analyze the developing scenario create a new game plan and execute the decision with ruthless precision.

Supporting the united states was a prudent and a nation saving decision---but to have made it extra ordinary---to have shown what legends are made up of---to have gone down in the history of the world as a nation would have been to start up the campaign of save pakistan first---be a pakistani first---expell the foreigners--execute the al qaeda and Osama.

But sadly and tragically these generals failed miserably---the politicians are a failure all the time---nothing new about that---but for these guys to fall on their faces again---that is ultra tragic.

[Pakistanisage]

Imagine what the U.S. would be like without civilian control of the military. We'd have Clarks running the show and there would be unnecessary conflicts all the time, Americans minds being distorted to support the military efforts...even U.S. soldiers would be disgusted at the levels of deceit.

General clark is absolutely right. It is the ZIONIST NEOCONS that are a threat to the World Peace. These guys like Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Elliot Abrams, John Bolton, Eliot Cohen, Dick Cheney are the biggest threat to mankind, not the Generals who follow orders. It is the policy makers and if the policy makers are the neo-conservatives, god help the humanity.

Read about it :




How Neoconservatives Conquered Washington – and Launched a War, by Michael Lind

[MastanKhan]

I dont agree with the red part
or let me re-phrase.. I dont understand about our liability over Iraqi deaths.
I agree with the rest of the post though

If pak had struck in afghanistan and taken out Osama and his cohortrs----u s had no reason for a strike any where----. The invasion of iraq was a buildup from the invasion of afghanistan----.

By killing Osama---pakistan would have taken the steam out of the american pressure cooker----no build up of troops in afg---no connection of al qaeda to iraq---no invasion of iraq.

[Haseebullah]

General Clark was so angry when the Russians disobeyed KFOR's U.N. command to take over Tirana Airport that he wanted to open fire on them. Doing so could have unnecessarily started WWIII.

A very dangerous man as the record shows his outlook is distorted. Less greatness and more honesty, please.

So a highly distorted and dangerous man can become a US 4 Star General. I guess that tells us everything we need to know about the US armed forces.

[Solomon2]

So a highly distorted and dangerous man can become a US 4 Star General. I guess that tells us everything we need to know about the US armed forces.

Scary, isn't it? Just remember that the U.S. president can always and instantly remove such people from their command - very unlike Pakistan, where Unit 101 stands by to remove, at the order of a general, any Pakistani president who tries to do the same.

[Abu Zolfiqar]

General Clark was so angry when the Russians disobeyed KFOR's U.N. command to take over Tirana Airport that he wanted to open fire on them. Doing so could have unnecessarily started WWIII.

A very dangerous man as the record shows his outlook is distorted. Less greatness and more honesty, please.

Suleiman, dont you think war-mongering on Iran is also a dangerous and ill-advised policy

[Solomon2]

Suleiman, dont you think war-mongering on Iran is also a dangerous and ill-advised policy

Me, think? Now why ever would I do that?

[khail007]

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Imagine what the U.S. would be like without civilian control of the military. We'd have Clarks running the show and there would be unnecessary conflicts all the time, Americans minds being distorted to support the military efforts...even U.S. soldiers would be disgusted at the levels of deceit.

It is all happening right now in civilian control of USA, I am afraid of the would be situation of military control.