Domestic & Social Crimes [Mob/ Vigilante justice] Thread

[Nahraf]

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..... Pakistanis need to get a life and grow up, .......

The Qadianis use deceptions, equivocations, concealments and disquise their beliefs. I don't see Christians, Hindus, etc. doing that in Pakistan. Mirza Ghulam Qadiani himself declared that anybody that does not believe in his prophethood or messiahood is not a true believer so he himself divided his flock from Islam. I think the Qadianis should grow up and anaylze the situation. They should control their missionary activity in Pakistan since that is one of the major causes of violence against them.

[Meesna]

Mirza Ghulam Qadiani himself declared that anybody that does not believe in his prophethood or messiahood is not a true believer

I think any prophet would say that or he is not a prophet but on the same grounds Christians can justify persecuting Muslims as Muslim call them kafir and Jews can kill Christians on same grounds. But more than that all sects of Islam call each other kafir and below video will prove that;


Same is the problem in other religions and various sects have been persecuting each other and calling kafir. Protestants and Catholics for example.

Point is people can believe what they want but as long as they are peaceful and not inciting anyone to break fair laws then they are fine and no one has a right to create problem for them, and doing so would be persecution.

[Meesna]

They should control their missionary activity in Pakistan since that is one of the major causes of violence against them.

On the same grounds if they block you from missionary work and close your mosques in Canada how would that be? Let's see you support that.

One rule for yourself and another for others?

[Nahraf]

There are many people in all Muslim sects that declare each other kaffir but they all agree that Qadianis are not Muslims. Nobody from these sects has declared themselves as prophet and messiah as Mirza Ghulam Qadiani has done. Even the Ismailis that have deviated from mainstream Islam have never broken the cardinal rule on finality of prophethood (Khatmay-Nabuwat).

[Meesna]

We are nobody to judge them upon their believes as it is already been done.

Yeah by taking away their fundamental rights and decades of persecution which is still ongoing.

What we are concerned about is their Anti state (Pakistan) activities , them participating in Israeli Army is a big NO NO.

How many Ahmadis have been convicted of any such activity? Are there any names you can name that were participants? All this seems as made up stories, no proof is provided and no convictions are ever even attempted. Why is state of Pakistan unable to convict a single Ahmadi for the said crimes when on the other hand its so bent on persecuting them and would love it if any real evidence against Ahmadis came through.

I want them to live in co existance with peace with other Minorities and Muslims in particular But only if they stop Harming Pakistan from With in.

How many Ahmadis have been found guilty of harming Pakistan? In contrast I can name a lot of others; politicians, generals, religious organizations, even some elements of media who have demonstratively harmed Pakistan. Shouldn’t you be worried about them instead if you are really concerned about safety of Pakistan and not about persecuting Ahmadis?

I am not Generalizing all Ahamdis as Traitors but they do have a lot of them who would do anything to get this Nation under havok.

Name a few Ahmadis with evidence who have created havok. Fact is, in contrast to other groups its almost impossible to find a single Ahmadi who has demonstratively done any harm to Pakistan. This shows they are more beneficial and loyal to Pakistan than others, doesn't it?

A quick search of the Wikipedia brings this up;

Abdus Salam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
PAEC, PINSTECH, SUPPARCO, KANUUP, ICTP (which sponsors many Pakistanis), Superior Science Colleges, Nobel Prize

Muhammad Zafrulla Khan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kashmir Resolutions on which Pakistan's Kashmir case is based

Akhtar Hussain Malik - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Was about to take over Ikhnor in 1965 war when he was replaced by Yahya Khan, delaying the offensive

Iftikhar Janjua - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Run of Kutch, Iftikhar Janjua Road in Rawalpindi is named after him

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirza_Muzaffar_Ahmad
Mangla Tarbela Dams, irrigation network

Simply They are welcomed as normal citizens but their Anti pakistan activities are NOT.

Please please please prove all these allegations in a court of law. With the bent courts in Pakistan you should not have problem getting a guilty verdict if you had an ounce of proof.

[Meesna]

There are many people in all Muslim sects that declare each other kaffir but they all agree that Qadianis are not Muslims.

All sects agree that the remaining sect is kafir. I'm surprised this missed your observations. Pick any sect and there are fatwas of kufr against them from other sects.

Nobody from these sects has declared themselves as prophet and messiah as Mirza Ghulam Qadiani has done. Even the Ismailis that have deviated from mainstream Islam have never broken the cardinal rule on finality of prophethood (Khatmay-Nabuwat).

If one person can claim prophethood then so can another. If not, then persecution of all prophets would be justified as they claimed something to which people of their age did not agree with and considered them false prophets. Not only that, in this day and age non-Muslims, the vast majority of the world, consider Islam to be a false religion and that would technically give them right to persecute Muslims.

[Aeronaut]

canada is a secular society where as Pakistan is an Islamic republic.
Remember this difference.

[Meesna]

canada is a secular society where as Pakistan is an Islamic republic.
Remember this difference.

So you accept Secularism is a superior system which gives humans due respect and their rights, and treats them equally even when religious conflicts are involved, unlike Islam? You have just given a very solid reason why we should have secularism in Pakistan too.

btw here is an example of "Ahmadis raising havoc"; to borrow your phrase;

Now talking about the Ahmadis, here's a very meaningful excerpt from Sardar Shaukat Hayat:

"Qaid-e-Azam sent me a message saying 'Shaukat, I have come to know that you're going to Qadian which is only five miles from Qadian. Please go there and convey my request to the leader of the Ahmadi community , Mirza Bashirudding to extend his support and blessings for the establishment of Pakistan'." I reached Qadian at 12 noon and was told that Mirza sahab was taking rest. I informed him I had come with a message from Qaid-e-Azam. He came down at once and asked me what Qaid-e-Azam's instructions were. I replied that Qaid-e-Azam had sought his blessings and co-operation. He said that he himself was praying for the success of his mission and so far as the support of his followers was concerned, no Ahmadi would contest elections against the Muslim League and if any one defied this decision, he would not get the support of his community. As a result of the meeting, Mumtaz Daulatana of the Muslim League defeated an Ahmadi Nawab Mohammad Deen from Sialkot constituency by huge margin."

Now let's have a look at what Syed Abul Ala Maudoodi had to say in support of Paksitan as told by Sardar Shaukat Hayat:

"Reaching Pathankot, I met Maulana Maudoodi at Qaid-e-Azam's behest. He was staying at the garden adjacent to the village of Chaudhry Niaz. When I conveyed Qaid-e-Azam's message to him asking for his blessings and support, he replied he could never pray for Napak-istan ( unholy state) adding that Pakistan could not come into existence until the entire population in India did not become Muslim. That was the vision and point of view of the leader of the Jamaat-e-Islami.(Translated by Sohail Arshad)

NewAgeIslam.com: Urdu Section; OBJECTIVES RESOLUTION AND SECULARISM-PART VI

You should be calling Jamaat Islami traitors, not Ahmadis.

[Aeronaut]

As i said most of the traitors are sitting overseas and cannot be held responsible for their activities.

Any prosecution will be tagged as religiously motivated blashmy laws no avail.

i think ahmadis should be given full civilian rights but they must be barred from preaching their agenda as it is offensive to 98% people and creates haterd.

[Aeronaut]

your link is from an ahamdi run website hence not valid.
bring some nuteral source.

[Aeronaut]

lets not discuss Secularism or Islam here .
We have few threads go there have your say and i will answer that.

[T-Faz]

You wahabis are the reason Islam is suffering, you ideology and teaching of hatred has weakened us so much that any weak country can accuse muslims, malign them and kill millions without any consequences.

While you are fighting other muslims, other people have destroyed and tarnished the image of Islam. Have some shame and ask Allah for mercy. Let god be the judge and let him decide who is right and who is wrong.

[Meesna]

As i said most of the traitors are sitting overseas and cannot be held responsible for their activities.

Anyone can be tried in absentia. Alas with no proof trial would not be possible, the real reason for not conducting such trial.

Any prosecution will be tagged as religiously motivated blashmy laws no avail.

i think ahmadis should be given full civilian rights but they must be barred from preaching their agenda as it is offensive to 98% people and creates haterd.

Being offensive is no excuse, all religions and sects are offensive to others not to mention other ideologies. Some find hijab and mosque minaret's offensive. Let's not support such bigots and justify their actions.

[Meesna]

your link is from an ahamdi run website hence not valid.
bring some nuteral source.

Sardar Shaukat Hayat was not Ahmadi. Check his book.

[Aeronaut]

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Dont bring secterianism BS here T-Faz .

That is a different topic.