Islam And Pakistan

[MilesTogo]

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More than 95% of the population in Pakistan is Muslim, then why do you need a secular state?

[paritosh]

pakistan can be non-secular...it doesn't have a significant non-muslim population...

[Patriot]

More than 95% of the population in Pakistan is Muslim, then why do you need a secular state?

Well not exactly secular state but not a Mullah state either.Any minority or other sect Muslims should be able to live freely and Religion should have nothing to do with the government in power.(Quaid-E-Azam also said this ill try to find the quote and post).Honestly what does Religion has to do with government?

[ajpirzada]

pakistan was created in the name of islam. if u guys read Quaid-e-Azam's speech on the openin day of state bank of pakistan u will realise that he was talkin about islamic banking system back in 1947. read the 1940 lahore resolution (lead by Quaid-e-Azam) and you ll see that the demand was for muslim states in the sub continent. also if u look back in pre 1947 time, ull see that the whole struggle was about gettin a separate state for muslims. find me a single quote in which any of the Muslim League leader demands a separate state on the basis of anything other than religion. even the two nation theory was based on religion.
now when the whole struggle was to get a state for MUSLIMS where they could practice their religion than how can you say that pakistan is not an islamic country?
Islam allows freedom to all the non muslims to practice their faith. so where exactly is the problem? do u not get to go to night clubs on weekends is that the problem with pakistan being an Islamic Republic or u are not allowed to get drunk in public is that the issue?
wat is being secular? allowed to do anything u lik in public doesnt matter its gud or bad for the society?
but if secular is freedom with responsibility then Islam is a secular religion.

problem is with us who make stupid laws in the name of Islam.
for those who think becomin so called secular will take us close to west then im sad to hear that.

[qsaark]

Honestly what does Religion has to do with government?

Allama Iqbal said:

Jalal-e-paadshahi ho, ya jamhoori tamasha ho
Juda ho deen syasat say, tou reh jaati hai chengezi

[ajpirzada]

Well not exactly secular state but not a Mullah state either.Any minority or other sect Muslims should be able to live freely and Religion should have nothing to do with the government in power.(Quaid-E-Azam also said this ill try to find the quote and post).Honestly what does Religion has to do with government?

ya i know that quote. thats the only quote ppl can find to prove their point of pakistan being a secular state. he said pakistan wont be ruled by mullah but i fail to understand how that contradicts pakistan being an islamic country. also wat about many other statements given by him in which he talks about a muslim state. being a muslim state doesnt mean that non muslims are not allowd to practice their religion. like i mentioned above Islam allows full freedom to non muslims to practice their faith.

[Omar1984]

More than 95% of the population in Pakistan is Muslim, then why do you need a secular state?

Some people want Pakistan to be secular like Turkey (which also has more than 95% Muslim population) but they are forgetting the fact that Turkey is in Europe, and is an entirely different society from Pakistan.

[SecularHumanist]

We should follow Quaid-E-Azam's vision and our problems will be made easier to face. We should be a secular state.

[qsaark]

We should follow Quaid-E-Azam's vision and our problems will be made easier to face. We should be a secular state.

Quid E Azam never said that Pakistan is going to be a secular state.

[SecularHumanist]

Quid E Azam never said that Pakistan is going to be a secular state.

"If you change your past and work together in a spirit that everyone of you, no matter to what community he belongs, no matter what relations he had with you in the past, no matter what is his colour, caste or creed, is first, second and last a citizen of this State with equal rights, privileges, and obligations, there will be no end to the progress you will make. I cannot emphasize it too much. We should begin to work in that spirit and in course of time all these angularities of the majority and minority communities, the Hindu community and the Muslim community, because even as regards Muslims you have Pathans, Punjabis, Shias, Sunnis and so on, and among the Hindus you have Brahmins, Vashnavas, Khatris, also Bengalis, Madrasis and so on, will vanish. Indeed if you ask me, this has been the biggest hindrance in the way of India to attain the freedom and independence and but for this we would have been free people long long ago. No power can hold another nation, and specially a nation of 400 million souls in subjection; nobody could have conquered you, and even if it had happened, nobody could have continued its hold on you for any length of time, but for this. Therefore, we must learn a lesson from this. You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place or worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the State. As you know, history shows that in England, conditions, some time ago, were much worse than those prevailing in India today. The Roman Catholics and the Protestants persecuted each other. Even now there are some States in existence where there are discriminations made and bars imposed against a particular class. Thank God, we are not starting in those days. We are starting in the days where there is no discrimination, no distinction between one community and another, no discrimination between one caste or creed and another. We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State. The people of England in course of time had to face the realities of the situation and had to discharge the responsibilities and burdens placed upon them by the government of their country and they went through that fire step by step. Today, you might say with justice that Roman Catholics and Protestants do not exist; what exists now is that every man is a citizen, an equal citizen of Great Britain and they are all members of the Nation. Now I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State."

Jinnah, 11th August 1947 - presiding over the constituent assembly.

Does this not sound like a secular state?

[Silverfalcon]

Its the Freemasons top priority to destroy our belief system and promote secularism.

Unfortunately many people have been fooled by them and now think positively of secularism.

Just remember one thing , every war that we Muslims have won is because of help from Allah.

and do you know why the Muslims are facing their downfall ?....there is a very basic and simple reason for it.

It might be hard for some of you to digest , but we have forgotten our religious beliefs , have forgotten our creator ( Allah ) , we disobey his commands , do Sins without even thinking that Allah is always watching each and everyone of us.

Please people , stop following the west , those people are totally finished , their value system has collapsed beyond repair. Even they are converting to Islam now.

[qsaark]

Does this not sound like a secular state?

No, this sounds to me like a regular state. In Pakistan, who stops Christians to go to the church, or Hindus to their temples, or is there any law that prevents the hiring of non-Muslims? Almost all the hotel business is in the hands of the Zoroastrians, who stops them?

[SecularHumanist]

Its the Freemasons top priority to destroy our belief system and promote secularism.

Unfortunately many people have been fooled by them and now think positively of secularism.

Just remember one thing , every war that we Muslims have won is because of help from Allah.

and do you know why the Muslims are facing their downfall ?....there is a very basic and simple reason for it.

It might be hard for some of you to digest , but we have forgotten our religious beliefs , have forgotten our creator ( Allah ) , we disobey his commands , do Sins without even thinking that Allah is always watching each and everyone of us.

Please people , stop following the west , those people are totally finished , their value system has collapsed beyond repair. Even they are converting to Islam now.

By that logic, the wars we lost are because Allah did not want us to win. You want us to stop following the west? Then please give us a model to follow. Should we follow the 'great' Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia? One country we know what shape it is in. The other one is just lucky with oil. Despite the oil money, it is such a backward and oppressive country.

[Silverfalcon]

We want to follow what Muslims were before , not what Muslims have become now.

Please look into Hazrat Umer's lifetime , who was a companion of our Holy Prophet and was also one of the four Khalifas.

It was such a good time for Muslims that

In his time , he went out in the streets to give charity to the people , but no one would accept it.

Those are the times when Muslims were at the top.

The people in the west have become nothing but servants to private banks.
they are working their entire life to do what ? to pay mortgage to banks ?
Where is the happiness in their life gone ?
Why is the suicide rate so damn high ?
Why is Islam the largest growing religion in US ?

[ajpirzada]

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"If you change your past and work together in a spirit that everyone of you, no matter to what community he belongs, no matter what relations he had with you in the past, no matter what is his colour, caste or creed, is first, second and last a citizen of this State with equal rights, privileges, and obligations, there will be no end to the progress you will make. I cannot emphasize it too much. We should begin to work in that spirit and in course of time all these angularities of the majority and minority communities, the Hindu community and the Muslim community, because even as regards Muslims you have Pathans, Punjabis, Shias, Sunnis and so on, and among the Hindus you have Brahmins, Vashnavas, Khatris, also Bengalis, Madrasis and so on, will vanish. Indeed if you ask me, this has been the biggest hindrance in the way of India to attain the freedom and independence and but for this we would have been free people long long ago. No power can hold another nation, and specially a nation of 400 million souls in subjection; nobody could have conquered you, and even if it had happened, nobody could have continued its hold on you for any length of time, but for this. Therefore, we must learn a lesson from this. You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place or worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the State. As you know, history shows that in England, conditions, some time ago, were much worse than those prevailing in India today. The Roman Catholics and the Protestants persecuted each other. Even now there are some States in existence where there are discriminations made and bars imposed against a particular class. Thank God, we are not starting in those days. We are starting in the days where there is no discrimination, no distinction between one community and another, no discrimination between one caste or creed and another. We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State. The people of England in course of time had to face the realities of the situation and had to discharge the responsibilities and burdens placed upon them by the government of their country and they went through that fire step by step. Today, you might say with justice that Roman Catholics and Protestants do not exist; what exists now is that every man is a citizen, an equal citizen of Great Britain and they are all members of the Nation. Now I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State."

Jinnah, 11th August 1947 - presiding over the constituent assembly.

Does this not sound like a secular state?

that sounds exactly how one muslim state should be.

my point still stands true that there is nothing Quaid-e-Azam mentioned which points towards not having an islamic state rather his (and Muslim League) whole struggle was to get a separate state for muslims. was the struggle not for a muslim state or u may wanna call it a state for muslims?