Education system

[Pride]

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No, Madrassa education i.e. Quran teaching should be integrated in normal education system. On the contrary, we can always 'import' the idea from Ontario Ministry of Education. In Toronto, we have Toronto District School Board (TDSB) and Toronto Catholic District School Board (TCDSB)...
You know why Madrassa system has been a success in Pakistan? One, it is an easy way out for the children and Mullah baradri takes advantage of poverty. You know why do we have unemployment besides the 'system failure'; because Mullah team does not prepare their children to enter in the work force.

I support saad your point, All this montessory schools have somewhat Catholic preaching or style is added but side by side they include other subjects which raises proper logic and reasoning to judge their question and faith properly. This sort of education can be succesful not only on minor level but on university level. While they sound religion specific but see Aligarh Muslim University, Jamia Milia university, Osmania university, Benaras Hindu university etc (Now religion does not play any major role in these univs for students level) are doing much better in comparison to other universities. This type of schooling sometimes give assurance to parents that their son/daughter is learning about religion and their country with other subjects.

[MastanKhan]

I support saad your point, All this montessory schools have somewhat Catholic preaching or style is added but side by side they include other subjects which raises proper logic and reasoning to judge their question and faith properly. This sort of education can be succesful not only on minor level but on university level. While they sound religion specific but see Aligarh Muslim University, Jamia Milia university, Osmania university, Benaras Hindu university etc (Now religion does not play any major role in these univs for students level) are doing much better in comparison to other universities. This type of schooling sometimes give assurance to parents that their son/daughter is learning about religion and their country with other subjects.

Hi,

Pride---thankyou very much for your posts---a lots of our young men think that by repeating on the same mistakes over and over----we might by chance and by error not of our doing may end up succeeding.

It is very difficult to ask us to look at things with an open mind---you ask us to change something---and we feel like like it is a world wide conspiracy aganist us. We believe that the world is against us.

These floodds and the reaction of the world community should be an eye opener for those pakistanis---the american news media have hardly been showing the pakistani floods for no more than 30 seconds on the media---on cnn---on my local news channels----and here are pakistanis believing that any thing to do with pakistan has a world wide conspiracy---.

Well take this lack of interest to the bank and feed the starving.

[kugga]

I thought of it as a constructive thread and most of the posts are constructive... but some of the guys want it to turn into a battalefield against Madrassa education... For God's sake at least let this thread be without Mullah bashing...

These Madrassas are educating the largest percent of our population.. They need reforms no doubt in it but we need overall educational reforms not only reforms in Madrassa but also in other education systems...
The arguments , they give , why they don't teach english and some science subjects at most of the Madrassaas is that they are specialized in giving Religious education.... Religious education is there speciality not science...

[salman108]

No, Madrassa education i.e. Quran teaching should be integrated in normal education system. On the contrary, we can always 'import' the idea from Ontario Ministry of Education. In Toronto, we have Toronto District School Board (TDSB) and Toronto Catholic District School Board (TCDSB)...
You know why Madrassa system has been a success in Pakistan? One, it is an easy way out for the children and Mullah baradri takes advantage of poverty. You know why do we have unemployment besides the 'system failure'; because Mullah team does not prepare their children to enter in the work force.

Saad, that is correct; and that is what my point was also.
Madrassah as an institution is better than western style schools
what is required is to improve what is taught in them.

I requested member to please advise on the stuff like following:

Schools buildings should be based on population density
Schools should offer x% of time on physical training and Y % on curriculum.
Schools should have interactive modes of learning
and so on so forth.

If every one contributes we can select common requirements and post that as an ideal school.

[pak-marine]

We have the infrastructure lots of govt/ state schools , these schools are the one which educates the masses who are poor and cannot afford private education. Unfortunatly the image they have is even horrifying , they are known as ""PEELA SCHOOL"" and have the worst reputation.

If only our statesmen can pool in some more money in the state school system rather than funding nukes etc things could be a lot better for coming generation of Pakistanis

[FlyingEagle]

There should be a standard for Government, private and smi-private schools. which includes routine course+ Madrasa+ computer+ science. Inshort every student of same standard/class should have same level of knowledge.

Regards,
FE
Hamaisha Kush Raho

[nightcrawler]

Now the question is, pakistan and india have a good and challenging education why are our degrees not recognised world wide whereas European and north american univerities that are much simpler have a higher value? My Uncle did Bio med. enginnering from punjab university with great marks and when he came to canada he was asked to do a certificate or a degree for him to get a decednt job with a decent pay.

Thanks!

Difficult/challenging doesnt equal an effective education system!!

To me its way too difficult to learn by heart a page or two; but its quiet easy but effective to reproduce what is read in your own words.

[dk33]

If only our statesmen can pool in some more money in the state school system rather than funding nukes etc things could be a lot better for coming generation of Pakistanis

Or they could stop funding loss making State owned companies that cost Pakistan Rs. 400 Billion a year. That I believe surpasses the entire defence budget.

There are far more feasible ways to save money and allocate it to education than to irrationally bash the military.

[nightcrawler]

I think much said about the shortcoming of present education system; now people we must highlight the respective remedies alone

[bilal1219]

Difficult/challenging doesnt equal an effective education system!!

To me its way too difficult to learn by heart a page or two; but its quiet easy but effective to reproduce what is read in your own words.

Thats right, but im saying is we are told to go with ratta in pakistan since we dont have any help of teachers after school or lunch time, so this is the only way out. On the other side, i Studied in toronto for 3 years now, i was always welcomed by teachers after school or lunch time for any help or discussion for students. This didnt just happen in high school but in university as well where we study along with 350-400 students. I bet if system in pakistan starts this thing, The ratta system will be a good bye for students.

Here i go with my another personal experience: my counsin who moved from pakistan( Ratta system) came to canada in grade 9, last year asked me to solve/explain a math problem but her conditiopn was to do it just how the teacher explained it in class, and i argued with her that, in math all u need for math or science courses is that u just need to have the right answer, the meathod is not cared about.

Similiarly, Pakistan should have a similiar thing, Not just handing the notes to students and asking them to learn it by heart, disadvantage in that is u forget one thing, u end up forgetting the whole thing.

Thanks!

[salman108]

Thats right, but im saying is we are told to go with ratta in pakistan since we dont have any help of teachers after school or lunch time, so this is the only way out. On the other side, i Studied in toronto for 3 years now, i was always welcomed by teachers after school or lunch time for any help or discussion for students. This didnt just happen in high school but in university as well where we study along with 350-400 students. I bet if system in pakistan starts this thing, The ratta system will be a good bye for students.

Here i go with my another personal experience: my counsin who moved from pakistan( Ratta system) came to canada in grade 9, last year asked me to solve/explain a math problem but her conditiopn was to do it just how the teacher explained it in class, and i argued with her that, in math all u need for math or science courses is that u just need to have the right answer, the meathod is not cared about.

Similiarly, Pakistan should have a similiar thing, Not just handing the notes to students and asking them to learn it by heart, disadvantage in that is u forget one thing, u end up forgetting the whole thing.

Thanks!

I have a suggestion

Make sure the exam paper is such that no one has ever seen it ever before.

simple concept, followed in O & A levels;
the problems are new and the student is made to THINK.

[Patriot]

The problem with Pakistani Education System IMHO is lack of innovation.Pakistani Education is not practical it's all academic.All Student has to do is just learn all the stuff and bam hes got full marks.He does not have understand the concepts which is very important.Also any innovation is generally frowned up by teachers and teachers are hell bent on lakeer kay faqeer kind of stuff.All our Engineers want to do is basically just learn the procedure for fixing problem from equipment vendor and then just use that method to fix it whenever problem arising without finding out why this problem is arising etc.People are lazy as heck.This is why toppers are usually people who just revise all the academic stuff and don't do much practical work.

[bilal1219]

I have a suggestion

Make sure the exam paper is such that no one has ever seen it ever before.

simple concept, followed in O & A levels;
the problems are new and the student is made to THINK.

And yes, Thanks for pointing that out. This is also one major factor in the success of students. Exam papers are leaked before even the day of the exam and plus most of the questions are either striaght out of the book or just numbers changed here and there.

It should be something like what out calculus teacher used to do, He used to teach us whatever was required for us to know or a test or a quiz. On the day of the test, We would see the questions that we didnt even see in the book even if we did all our Homework. When the students asked, why is it that way he replies that there is no point in giving test or exam if there is no critical thinking involved in chich students are required to work a bit hard to get to the answer.

my 2 cents

Thanks!

[nightcrawler]

ok I will write a lengthy response; People you have to tolerate it
My response isn't an ordered or you can say stepbystep solution because I ain't properly equipped yet!!
Will try to giv some economical & pragmatic solutions with respect to Pakistan

1] We need to shift studies out of political barriers i.e the acceptance of Russian engineering degrees via Pakistan Engineering Council (PEC)
2] Plugging out the bias among students following different education streams(refer to previous post)
3] Awarding talent to boost morale. I have seen much gifts, prizes given to matriculation/FSC students & nothing is done about pupils have straight A's in cambridge stream( see 2]) & they rather being awarded by UK themselves end up as foreign cargo & never to return Pakistan !!
4] Acceptance that Pakistan can't afford a Cambridge system throughout or atleast a similar system( because this system requires 2-3 books per subject!!) one must right away send its talented pupil overseas on a RETURN PLEDGE.
5] As a prerequisite to 4] atleast 3 languages must be taught to any pupil

1. English
2. Urdu
3. Chinese/Russian/German/French/Swedish.....................
   
   
   

This will not restrict (as is majorly seen) our pupils to English speaking countries( which also are expensive!!)
Most important
6] Make females pay for their education attained within Pakistan.
I have seen majority of females especially in doctor lines; fail to work as professionals because of family rules/marriage........ This I think is the biggest loss of technical personnel within country One can impose huge fines; cancellation of degrees.....to make her parents pay for this carelessness of fulfilling a duty towards country.
7] No private education. Male/Female are bound to attend regular classes!! Stop this '4 wall' Char Diwari concept for females( Quaid too said this ) & make them come in congregation with males to educate themselves & latter their generations.

The last two arguments will cast a severe Maulana propaganda against govt. but fear not people they hadn't done a single thing for Pakistan previously nor will they do in near future!!

[MastanKhan]

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And yes, Thanks for pointing that out. This is also one major factor in the success of students. Exam papers are leaked before even the day of the exam and plus most of the questions are either striaght out of the book or just numbers changed here and there.

It should be something like what out calculus teacher used to do, He used to teach us whatever was required for us to know or a test or a quiz. On the day of the test, We would see the questions that we didnt even see in the book even if we did all our Homework. When the students asked, why is it that way he replies that there is no point in giving test or exam if there is no critical thinking involved in chich students are required to work a bit hard to get to the answer.

my 2 cents

Thanks!

Hi,

That was very stupid of the teacher---if you have not been taught---then they don't have the right to ask you for that.

Examination hall is not the place testing your critical thinking---Exam hall is to test what you have been taught.

You know what you are examined for----for what you have been taught---.