Russia & Pakistan's Growing Engagement

[blackcobran]

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Utter nonsense ...

What kind of relationship does Pakistan gov think they are going to go for ?

Specially when the Russians know that Pakistan's international clout is at the lowest, and almost at war footings with NATO/US.
They know we don't have a lot of cards to play in this game, and thus they will shape the relationship from a point where they are advantageous.

This will again land Pakistan in trouble, if not immediately maybe after 5-10 years.

In principle this is the mistake Liaqat Ali Khan made, when going for relationship with USA. Instead of a bilateral relationship he sold us out.

Time to learn from the Indians, and balance Russia AND NATO and milk of them , instead of letting them wean us.
Relationships are made for mutual benefit, and every benefit has a cost associated to it.
Some thing Foreign office should learn by now.

---------- Post added at 02:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:18 PM ----------



Oh that is just silly.

So still You wanna go to us plot???

[Tshering22]

So still You wanna go to us plot???

It is not about choosing which plot, but rather how you play the existing plots well. That is entirely depending on your government's objectives. While it is important to create and consolidate ties with countries that share a common landmass with South Asia, you have to take a lot of things into account:

- Russia has little to do with your problems currently.

Your engagement in Afghanistan is little concern to itself from Pakistani perspective as it is worried about the drug inflow from Afghanistan into its territory via funding routes that Talibunnies use. (They don't do drugs but they find it a lucrative source of money to fund their operations).

US and Russia recently had a joint anti-drug raid in Afghanistan a few months ago.

- Far different objectives and perspective from you lot.

Today's multi-polar world doesn't give them that ideological opponent image that you're expecting to see in them. There is no anti-western alliance here. Mark my words; if they can get something the west can offer them tempting enough, they will take it. And there is nothing wrong with that either.

Russia sees the world in a whole different outlook than what you do. You see it as a divided camp between 2 existing world powers and a third upcoming one with your own regional problems involved in it. While Russia sees it as a trading opportunity. The more number of countries that are growing economically while buying energy resources from its vast territory, the more welcome that country is.

Which is why China and we have that angle in their foreign policy. Energy trade and trade worth billions. Say if in the coming 5 years US could buy Russian resources en masse, you'd find Russia very amicable to US political decisions suddenly.

This is why I am saying; this is not the COLD WAR's ideology based world. There is no ideology here. Only business and interests.

Now you have to ask a question to yourself and your government:

What expectations do they have from the Russian side?

- Counter US/NATO? Not happening
- Create an economic block? Already exists
- Provide weaponry? Depends on some very critical factors that you and I both know.

And then after you contemplate on what you expect from Russia proceed forward.

[TVVELVEMO$]

Boy with all this great advice for Pakistan regarding Russia; I am just wading into redundant waters.

Regardless of what is being said here, Russia under Putin is extremely interested in Pakistan. Why?
The same reason everyone else is! Pakistan's ports can provide an end-point to great many Eurasian Trade routes. If cargo, finished goods, fresh produce can be conveniently shipped from Europe to Persian gulf and vice versa through Pakistan then everyone involved wins.

Specifically, Putin has three important reasons to be interested in Pakistan

1. Russia is establishing a Eurasian economic and customs union (Eurasec) and it just tied up two big loose ends Kazakhstan and Tajikistan. Tajikistan and Kyrgyz Republic are far flung and corrnered in Pamirs. In order to prosper and grow these nations need seaports close to their nations. Pakistan ports are the closest. Russia wants Tajikistan to establish a trade link to Pakistan ports as soon as possible. Khar would do well to prep on the progress Pakistan is willing to make on the Ishkashim to Broghil stretch of the highway. Eventually there will have to be rail road link as well. So Russia wants to be at the pinnacle/hub of a global trading community that involves Pakistan at the periphery. That highway when built will rival KKH in strategic value.

2. Putin's Russia not only sees herself at the center of a new trading super bloc but also at the center of Gas & Oil Grid. It wants to be the most important supplier of gas to Europe. This requires all other suppliers to be diverted elsewhere. Thus helping Iran and Turkmen gas flow east is key objective. If it invloves Gazprom participating in money making pipelines through Pakistan while achieving these objectives then why not?

3. And finally Russia has seen Paks in action in the Hindukush since 1980s. Each ought to have a healthy respect for the worthy opponent. Post 2015. No one knows who will stay and who will leave Central Asia ( I mean Europeans er French). But Americans and Russians know that Pakistan will always be around with some tough fighters at its disposal. It always makes sense to keep the toughest dudes on the block on your side. I'm jus' sayin'......

So I think Pakistan should quickly monoplize on this fast developing situation and build Highway and railway and perhaps pipelines to become a "real" player in Central Asia \ Greater Middle East instead of sitting around for free had outs from Arabs or others.

[Dance]

ISLAMABAD: Foreign Office spokesman Abdul Basit said on Saturday that Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar would visit Russia next week for holding talks on bilateral relations and the regional situation.

Speaking in Radio Pakistan’s programme Naey Ufaq, he said that Pakistan was actively engaged with other countries diplomatically with respect to the emerging situation in Afghanistan.

He said Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani would arrive in Qatar on Monday. The on-going process of reconciliation in Afghanistan would come under discussion during the visit, he added.

The spokesman said during her recent visit to Kabul the foreign minister had exchanged views with the Afghan leadership to strengthen the process of reconciliation and dialogue.

In reply to a question, Mr Basit said that America and the Taliban were reportedly holding talks in Qatar and Pakistan was being informed about the talks through diplomatic sources.

He said the Pak-America cooperation on terrorism and the Afghan issue was at a standstill and the engagement with the US would not be restored until parliament prepared policy directions.—APP

Hina Khar to visit Russia | Newspaper | DAWN.COM

[soul hacker]

Pakistan, Russia agree to promote bilateral relations





MOSCOW: Pakistan and Russia on Wednesday agreed to promote and enhance bilateral relations in different fields including trade, energy and people to people contacts.
Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar met her Russian counterpart Sergey Viktorovich Lavrov in Moscow on Wednesday. Khar, on a three day visit to the Russian Federation, held in-depth talks with Lavrov on expanding and diversifying relations between Pakistan and Russia.
The two foreign ministers exchanged views on regional and global issues of mutual interest. They also discussed increasing cooperation in energy, infrastructure development, agriculture, science and technology sectors.
Addressing a joint press conference after the meeting, Khar said there has been a scope for cooperation between the two countries in different areas and all aspects for improving cooperation had been discussed.
Answering a question on Afghanistan, the Pakistani foreign minister said that Pakistan had a clear policy on extending full help and cooperation to any Afghan-led, Afghan-owned and Afghan-owned peace initiative as it was the only solution to the problem.
She said both countries had also agreed to enhance parliamentary interaction besides increasing cooperation on the foreign minister level.
Energy sector cooperation
Khar said that the Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan-India project (TAPI) and the Central Asia South Asia Regional Energy & Trade (CASA-1000) project were also discussed during the meeting.
She said Pakistan had received a very encouraging response from Russia for more investment in Pakistan Steel Mills and an interest in investing in different energy projects like Thar Coal.
“We are looking forward for the energy group meeting to be held within the first half of this year,” said the Pakistani foreign minister.
Regional cooperation
Speaking on regional cooperation, Khar said the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) was an exceptionally important forum and that Pakistan had been actively participating in the deliberations of the SCO and seeking permanent membership, and also thanked Russia for extending support in this matter.
Khar said that Pakistan was looking forward to hosting the next quadrilateral summit. She said she had extended invitation to the Russian leadership on behalf of President Asif Ali Zardari for the summit

[shuttler]

It is great to see this happens when both countries can gain mutual benefits from the tie!

[RayKalm]

I don't think so, first of all Russia doesn't have a booming economy and second they don't give anything for free and often they charge more than they should.

Russia's economy is booming. It is booming so fast that it will be top 5 eventually.

[DV RULES]

Development and it is good development. We have to join neighbour powers rather than 4th party for our own economical & strategic safety.

[Sania Saleem]

Nonetheless, by ignoring the interests of other stakeholders like Pakistan, Iran China and Russia in Afghanistan, America will fail in safeguarding its clandestine aims.

[Dance]

Russia and Pakistan could use their potential to tackle nuclear-related challenges and also to address terrorism, drug trafficking and, of course, Afghanistan. This was stated by Moscow Defence University Professor Col (retd) Dr Oleg Kulakov during a “Pak –Russia Nuclear Dialogue” organised by South Asian Strategic Stability Institute (SASSI) with the Centre for Energy and Security Studies (CENESS) Russia, in Islamabad on Monday, according to a press release issued on Tuesday.

Earlier, CENESS Director Anton Khlopkov called the meeting the “start of regular exchange of Russian and Pakistan scholars” and said it will focus on developing strategic dialogue on the nuclear related issues between the two countries, including nuclear disarmament, nonproliferation and peaceful use of nuclear energy”. He highlighted SASSI’s work and contribution towards building better Pakistan-Russia ties.

Russian Academy of Sciences IMEMO Senior Research Fellow Dr Petr Topychkanov, Dr Samar Mubarakmand, Dr Perviz Butt, Ambassador (retd) Tariq Osman Haider, Dr Zafar Nawaz Jaspal and Dr Maria Sultan also spoke.

N-Technology: Stronger Pak-Russia ties urged – The Express Tribune

[Aeronaut]

We welcome Russian cooperation in all fields , its need of the hour when we help each other & kick the aliens out !

[Tshering22]

Boy with all this great advice for Pakistan regarding Russia; I am just wading into redundant waters.

Regardless of what is being said here, Russia under Putin is extremely interested in Pakistan. Why?
The same reason everyone else is! Pakistan's ports can provide an end-point to great many Eurasian Trade routes. If cargo, finished goods, fresh produce can be conveniently shipped from Europe to Persian gulf and vice versa through Pakistan then everyone involved wins.

Woah! Slow down man! Cargo, oil, exports and imports are the end product what you're expecting here. The simple reason right now most countries are interested in Pakistan is because of one sole objective: security. Russia's underbelly, China's western flank and our northern flank are coinciding there.

With Pakistan being at the helm of the problem zone, it is natural that Russia would want to have some additional leverage in controlling the loonies that are there in Afghan-Pakistan border region that borders with Tajikistan which is well... almost Russian territory. The last thing Russia wants is to send troops to the region once again, although they've been considering it all along.

Specifically, Putin has three important reasons to be interested in Pakistan

1. Russia is establishing a Eurasian economic and customs union (Eurasec) and it just tied up two big loose ends Kazakhstan and Tajikistan. Tajikistan and Kyrgyz Republic are far flung and corrnered in Pamirs. In order to prosper and grow these nations need seaports close to their nations. Pakistan ports are the closest. Russia wants Tajikistan to establish a trade link to Pakistan ports as soon as possible. Khar would do well to prep on the progress Pakistan is willing to make on the Ishkashim to Broghil stretch of the highway. Eventually there will have to be rail road link as well. So Russia wants to be at the pinnacle/hub of a global trading community that involves Pakistan at the periphery. That highway when built will rival KKH in strategic value.

That's fine enough but trade relies on one single factor: Security and its involved costs. The area you're talking about is the most hostile in the region. Which insurer would insure those goods transiting from Karachi to NWFP and into Tajikistan? While Tajikistan onwards is safe, Gwadar and Karachi and judging by the current situation in Pakistan, nothing else is

2. Putin's Russia not only sees herself at the center of a new trading super bloc but also at the center of Gas & Oil Grid. It wants to be the most important supplier of gas to Europe. This requires all other suppliers to be diverted elsewhere. Thus helping Iran and Turkmen gas flow east is key objective. If it invloves Gazprom participating in money making pipelines through Pakistan while achieving these objectives then why not?

Through Pakistan to where? Russia has a direct land link with China and via its former states Kazakhstan and even via Mongolia The only massive customer of oil and gas in the south across Pakistan is us Indians. Do you really think Pakistanis would allow the gas to reach us without trying to keep it a hostage?

That's where the whole thing changes.

3. And finally Russia has seen Paks in action in the Hindukush since 1980s. Each ought to have a healthy respect for the worthy opponent.

Pakistanis need to get out of their imaginary delusions of how they "defeated the Soviet Union". Afghan war was never your war yet you took part in it, suffering its consequences today.

It was the Taliban and constant supply of money, resources, weapons and political support is what kept the fight alive. One side involved in USSR vs 20+ countries against it.

Had NATO's backing, Saudi's money and China's collusion not been a part of it, USSR and Najibulla government would have crushed Talibunnies with and Iron fist and Afghanistan would have been as developed as Turkey today.

USSR never wanted to fight against Pakistanis. How long do you think would Pakistan have lasted if it was a head-on fight? Two hours is my most liberal bet. The Soviets would have overrun Pakistani territory in a matter of hours without NATO's resource pouring.

Post 2015. No one knows who will stay and who will leave Central Asia ( I mean Europeans er French). But Americans and Russians know that Pakistan will always be around with some tough fighters at its disposal. It always makes sense to keep the toughest dudes on the block on your side. I'm jus' sayin'......

Nice flag there. . The US won't leave Afghanistan completely ever. This is such a golden opportunity. Besides, just google around; Putin wants US to stay because till US engages Taliban via Pakistan's duplicity as a double agent, Russian underbelly is free from ****** terror. Otherwise it would only harm Russian interests if they have to send troops to the Tajik-Afghan-Pakistan region

So I think Pakistan should quickly monoplize on this fast developing situation and build Highway and railway and perhaps pipelines to become a "real" player in Central Asia \ Greater Middle East instead of sitting around for free had outs from Arabs or others.

Please tell me honestly, don't you think they would have thought about this if they could do it? The situation is not as rosy as you think it is sitting in US.

[Sashan]

Woah! Slow down man! Cargo, oil, exports and imports are the end product what you're expecting here. The simple reason right now most countries are interested in Pakistan is because of one sole objective: security. Russia's underbelly, China's western flank and our northern flank are coinciding there.

With Pakistan being at the helm of the problem zone, it is natural that Russia would want to have some additional leverage in controlling the loonies that are there in Afghan-Pakistan border region that borders with Tajikistan which is well... almost Russian territory. The last thing Russia wants is to send troops to the region once again, although they've been considering it all along.

Specifically, Putin has three important reasons to be interested in Pakistan



That's fine enough but trade relies on one single factor: Security and its involved costs. The area you're talking about is the most hostile in the region. Which insurer would insure those goods transiting from Karachi to NWFP and into Tajikistan? While Tajikistan onwards is safe, Gwadar and Karachi and judging by the current situation in Pakistan, nothing else is



Through Pakistan to where? Russia has a direct land link with China and via its former states Kazakhstan and even via Mongolia The only massive customer of oil and gas in the south across Pakistan is us Indians. Do you really think Pakistanis would allow the gas to reach us without trying to keep it a hostage?

That's where the whole thing changes.



Pakistanis need to get out of their imaginary delusions of how they "defeated the Soviet Union". Afghan war was never your war yet you took part in it, suffering its consequences today.

It was the Taliban and constant supply of money, resources, weapons and political support is what kept the fight alive. One side involved in USSR vs 20+ countries against it.
Had NATO's backing, Saudi's money and China's collusion not been a part of it, USSR and Najibulla government would have crushed Talibunnies with and Iron fist and Afghanistan would have been as developed as Turkey today.

USSR never wanted to fight against Pakistanis. How long do you think would Pakistan have lasted if it was a head-on fight? Two hours is my most liberal bet. The Soviets would have overrun Pakistani territory in a matter of hours without NATO's resource pouring.



Nice flag there. . The US won't leave Afghanistan completely ever. This is such a golden opportunity. Besides, just google around; Putin wants US to stay because till US engages Taliban via Pakistan's duplicity as a double agent, Russian underbelly is free from ****** terror. Otherwise it would only harm Russian interests if they have to send troops to the Tajik-Afghan-Pakistan region



Please tell me honestly, don't you think they would have thought about this if they could do it? The situation is not as rosy as you think it is sitting in US.

Mate - Excellent points - A slight correction - Taliban was not in the picture against USSR. It became a force only around 1993/1994 while USSR had collapsed in 1991 while the USSR pull out itself happened in 1989. It is the likes of Ahmad Shah Masood who fought the USSR. Do not give the credit to Taliban.

[Moazam Khan]

Pakistan's Alliance is veering and shifting from US to Russia and it should be, as U.S has always fulfilled his own interests by making Pakistan a scapegoat.

[albert001]

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The two main themes at the Summit were therefore energy, business and economic cooperation on the one hand and combating drug trafficking and terrorism to stabilise the security situation in the region on the other. Russia and Pakistan had earlier discussed transit issues and opening a route to the “warm waters”. So it was not surprising that on the eve of the Summit President Zardari reiterated the invitation to Russia to take advantage of Pakistan’s access to the southern seas.