Not Easy for US to do an Osama-type raid on Pak nuclear weapons: Musharaf

[Secur]

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I just noticed that u r the mod...omg....even i reported saying this man seems to be out of his mind....

Out of his mind ? Just because you dont understand the gravity of the situation ... damn man this is the truth and my Govt understands it too well ... and what was the prejudicial thing about that ? Did you look at the way your fellow Indians were talking thinking that nukes are some ordinary explosives and that mutually assured destruction is a laughing matter ! Frustration my *** ... Do not reply on things that you dont understand ... You guys seem to be in dire need of a injected dose of reality ... You either are trolling around or too naive to understand these matters

[Irfan Baloch]

Out of his mind ? Just because you dont understand the gravity of the situation ... damn man this is the truth and my Govt understands it too well ... and what was the prejudicial thing about that ? Did you look at the way your fellow Indians were talking thinking that nukes are some ordinary explosives and that mutually assured destruction is a laughing matter ! Frustration my *** ... Do not reply on things that you dont understand ... You guys seem to be in dire need of a injected dose of reality ... You either are trolling around or too naive to understand these matters

maybe the following post from an Indian will help "JD_IN" to understand why we feel the way we are feeling now. one can only hope , maybe he will decide that the comments below are very well justified well then stop complaining.

Indian, american, israel, nato air force simultaneously launching an attack at multiple fronts.
One group involved in taking down paf while the other taking nuke facility to reduce resistances for sf's (simultaneously).
While this is going on sf's need to be dropped to secure the nukes and the installations.

Indian, american navy enforcing a blockade.
Indian amphibious and us marine force opening multiple fronts across pak.
India should execute cold start.

The success of this operation will rely on how efficiently all this action is taken simultaneously without any glitch and how well researched action plan india, usa, israel & nato come up with.

This should be well practiced before hand in the guise of joint exercise so enemy has little or no doubt.

loads and loads of intel needed for this.

[notorious_eagle]

Indian, american, israel, nato air force simultaneously launching an attack at multiple fronts.
One group involved in taking down paf while the other taking nuke facility to reduce resistances for sf's (simultaneously).
While this is going on sf's need to be dropped to secure the nukes and the installations.

Indian, american navy enforcing a blockade.
Indian amphibious and us marine force opening multiple fronts across pak.
India should execute cold start.

The success of this operation will rely on how efficiently all this action is taken simultaneously without any glitch and how well researched action plan india, usa, israel & nato come up with.

This should be well practiced before hand in the guise of joint exercise so enemy has little or no doubt.

loads and loads of intel needed for this.

And than you woke up and your mommy made breakfast for you Very well thought out plan, i think you should send a copy to Tom Clancy, maybe he will be willing to write a fiction novel.

To exercise for an operation like this will require loads of training and hardware which will not go unnoticed. First of all locating all the nukes and taking out a brigade strength force is no easy task, not to mention as soon as the fire fight starts, expect all the reserves to go active. While what you have stated sounds very interesting and will make a great fiction novel, reality couldn't be more different.

[mastaan]

Indian, american, israel, nato air force simultaneously launching an attack at multiple fronts.
One group involved in taking down paf while the other taking nuke facility to reduce resistances for sf's (simultaneously).
While this is going on sf's need to be dropped to secure the nukes and the installations.

Indian, american navy enforcing a blockade.
Indian amphibious and us marine force opening multiple fronts across pak.
India should execute cold start.

The success of this operation will rely on how efficiently all this action is taken simultaneously without any glitch and how well researched action plan india, usa, israel & nato come up with.

This should be well practiced before hand in the guise of joint exercise so enemy has little or no doubt.

loads and loads of intel needed for this.

With due respect (don't think you deserve any for this slang of insanity), ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND? You just started world war III, which according to you was started and ended by Special Forces of US, Israel, Nato and what not and in one night (by some magical, "Independence Day" sort of a global alignment & collaboration) and the simplistic assumption that the attacked territory will sit in idle state of not reacting and no one else will interfere ... Can you please wake up and smell the coffee instead of posting such an attrocity of your mind?

You really believe India will stand (unprovoked or provoked) in a military alignment in NATO and the US (from 1000s miles away) against Pakistan (my next door neighbor) and simply sign the blank check to creating a neighborhood mess that our future generations might not even exist to see?

While your profanity is beyond even deserving a meaningful response and is everybit melodramatically silly, I would just like to point out three things.

1. I am glad our administrations are not run by nincompoophs and (pardon my french) dimwits like you. We do have much more able and hopefully peace loving leaders and administrators

2. India (or Pakistan), as a society, as a defence establishment and as an army, will not (never ever) be so misadventerous or inadvertently imbecile to even think about challenging or needling the other side on such a sensitive thing or even remotely threaten to take away either one's biggest deterence (N power)... as both sides know that the response will be "unthinkable" as no one can take out all nukes of well oiled army machines existing on both sides (and always remember, it just took 1 fat lady to end the war, the 2nd just made them go under)

3. You must agree that flame baiting never helps. PDF can be am amazing platform to have fun and little teasing, but outright craziness is just not welcome. It is so easy to talk about destruction and so so difficult (and thats why precious) to talk about construction.

However, if your immature mind still doesn't not understand this tirade against you... Think again and you will find the apalling flaws in your argument, which is why i said, it is not even worth replying (that too where the OP said, please don't bring in India)... read and reply is generally a good practice and is welcome by most of the sane minds around here...

maybe the following post from an Indian will help "JD_IN" to understand why we feel the way we are feeling now. one can only hope , maybe he will decide that the comments below are very well justified well then stop complaining.

Irfan Baloch, I have read some of your responses in past and do find a lot of value in some of them. However, I do believe that senior members like you 'can', at the end of the day, steer these discussions into some meaningful directions (inspite of some really ridiculous posts) and that is the kind of stuff that makes PDF a nice place for a lot of us to jump in and join the debate, because there are a lot of people here, whose heads and hearts are in the right place. atleast, I believe so.

Why am I saying this to you? Because, you might still 'try to understand some of it', other will just ignore it... my 2 cents

P.S. I am not a troll... never have been, never well be

[VCheng]

Indian, american, israel, nato air force simultaneously launching an attack at multiple fronts.
One group involved in taking down paf while the other taking nuke facility to reduce resistances for sf's (simultaneously).
While this is going on sf's need to be dropped to secure the nukes and the installations.

Indian, american navy enforcing a blockade.
Indian amphibious and us marine force opening multiple fronts across pak.
India should execute cold start.

The success of this operation will rely on how efficiently all this action is taken simultaneously without any glitch and how well researched action plan india, usa, israel & nato come up with.

This should be well practiced before hand in the guise of joint exercise so enemy has little or no doubt.

loads and loads of intel needed for this.

What a stupid wet dream that will NEVER come to fruition.

Really, there is no need to spout off statements such as these.


impliedfacepalm-ba by vcheng552000, on Flickr

[Pakistanisage]

Indian, american, israel, nato air force simultaneously launching an attack at multiple fronts.
One group involved in taking down paf while the other taking nuke facility to reduce resistances for sf's (simultaneously).
While this is going on sf's need to be dropped to secure the nukes and the installations.

Indian, american navy enforcing a blockade.
Indian amphibious and us marine force opening multiple fronts across pak.
India should execute cold start.

The success of this operation will rely on how efficiently all this action is taken simultaneously without any glitch and how well researched action plan india, usa, israel & nato come up with.

This should be well practiced before hand in the guise of joint exercise so enemy has little or no doubt.

loads and loads of intel needed for this.

You Indians and your wet dreams !

[DARKY]

maybe the following post from an Indian will help "JD_IN" to understand why we feel the way we are feeling now. one can only hope , maybe he will decide that the comments below are very well justified well then stop complaining.

The Hue and cry over the guy's posts can be understood since he included "Indian" in his posts... India clearly cannot undertake such an operation even If Pakistan becomes Libya the very next day... the military specially the airforce and the aviation wing of the army is highly incapable and lacks the required equipments currently However If the trends continue the way its going...

I don't know how many of you know that 3 CVBGs were ready in the Arabian sea a few 100 kms from Pakistani costline during the OBL raid and Infact the V-22 carrying OBL's body breached the Pakistani airspace again in the morning in its route of one of those carries via balochistan... The Americans were very much ready for the worst...

[Secur]

I don't know how many of you know that 3 CVBGs were ready in the Arabian ocean a few 100 kms from Pakistani costline during the OBL raid and Infact the V-22 carrying OBL's body breached the Pakistani airspace again in the morning in its route of one of those carries via balochistan... The Americans were very much ready for the worst...

Impossible things about the 3 CVBG's ! There may be one but that too 100 km from Pakistani coast Cmon think of it !... 3 CVBG's would mean that Americans were prepared for a full out war ... It ai'nt no joke actually

[DARKY]

Impossible things about the 3 CVBG's ! There may be one but that too 100 km from Pakistani coast Cmon think of it !... 3 CVBG's would mean that Americans were prepared for a full out war ... It ai'nt no joke actually

Yes It wasn't a Joke.... and I said a few Hundred Kms... V-22 helicopter flight was done over balochistan to one of those carriers.

Actually a little surprised that a combination of black hawk and Chinooks was used in the raid where as Osprey would've perfectly done the job.

[Secur]

Yes It wasn't a Joke.... and I said a few Hundred Kms... V-22 helicopter flight was done over balochistan to one of those carriers.

Actually a little surprised that a combination of black hawk and Chinooks was used in the raid where as Osprey would've perfectly done the job.

any sources blogs , un confirmed rumours or news for this ? except for black hawk , none of the other heli's are stealthy ... anyways get back to the topic

[Irfan Baloch]

With due respect (don't think you deserve any for this slang of insanity), ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND? You just started world war III, which according to you was started and ended by Special Forces of US, Israel, Nato and what not and in one night (by some magical, "Independence Day" sort of a global alignment & collaboration) and the simplistic assumption that the attacked territory will sit in idle state of not reacting and no one else will interfere ... Can you please wake up and smell the coffee instead of posting such an attrocity of your mind?

You really believe India will stand (unprovoked or provoked) in a military alignment in NATO and the US (from 1000s miles away) against Pakistan (my next door neighbor) and simply sign the blank check to creating a neighborhood mess that our future generations might not even exist to see?

While your profanity is beyond even deserving a meaningful response and is everybit melodramatically silly, I would just like to point out three things.

1. I am glad our administrations are not run by nincompoophs and (pardon my french) dimwits like you. We do have much more able and hopefully peace loving leaders and administrators

2. India (or Pakistan), as a society, as a defence establishment and as an army, will not (never ever) be so misadventerous or inadvertently imbecile to even think about challenging or needling the other side on such a sensitive thing or even remotely threaten to take away either one's biggest deterence (N power)... as both sides know that the response will be "unthinkable" as no one can take out all nukes of well oiled army machines existing on both sides (and always remember, it just took 1 fat lady to end the war, the 2nd just made them go under)

3. You must agree that flame baiting never helps. PDF can be am amazing platform to have fun and little teasing, but outright craziness is just not welcome. It is so easy to talk about destruction and so so difficult (and thats why precious) to talk about construction.

However, if your immature mind still doesn't not understand this tirade against you... Think again and you will find the apalling flaws in your argument, which is why i said, it is not even worth replying (that too where the OP said, please don't bring in India)... read and reply is generally a good practice and is welcome by most of the sane minds around here...



Irfan Baloch, I have read some of your responses in past and do find a lot of value in some of them. However, I do believe that senior members like you 'can', at the end of the day, steer these discussions into some meaningful directions (inspite of some really ridiculous posts) and that is the kind of stuff that makes PDF a nice place for a lot of us to jump in and join the debate, because there are a lot of people here, whose heads and hearts are in the right place. atleast, I believe so.

Why am I saying this to you? Because, you might still 'try to understand some of it', other will just ignore it... my 2 cents

P.S. I am not a troll... never have been, never well be

my dear respected neighbour,

before logging into this forum I had to read the sickening news of the murder of 3 Hindu doctors at the hands of some criminals despite what I said earlier, whenever there is a terrorist atrocity anywhere in the world in general and specially in Subcontinent I feel the same sadness as I will if its happening in my hometown.

I understand what you are saying but wait a moment and think, Israel, and America dont live in the neighbourhood so they don’t care about the consequences whereas if India takes part in any such misadventure it will have to take the brunt of that. retaliation is any nations right and it will use anything that really hurts the possible instigators and collaborators.

Like Santro has explained earlier, we really are on the edge at the moment, we got growing insurgency, a failed diplomatic front, an army that is fighting an unending war with the terrorists (and having to sell it to its population that its in Pakistan’s interest) and if that’s not enough we are being blamed for the failure of NATO in Afghanistan too because a few thousand Haqqani men are able to bruise the tens of thousands of NATO forces and world’s best war machinery in the history.

So while we confront, talk-down and ban the terrorist sympathisers, our politicians, our clerics, our scholars and public figures pay with their lives for condemning the terrorists , our generals get shot at while going to work and some of them get executed along with children and then we hear some western news Anchor and pundit talking about our generals collaborating with Taliban and together with numb skulls in the US administration advocating attacks on Pakistan? Wow I mean wow you know who laughs in this situation? The terrorists and their sympathisers who mock the general public and the army for fighting the Taliban and still getting all the bad mouthing from the Americans. They say, it serves you well, go ahead and side with Americans and that’s what you get.

I hate clinches but let me share one with you, Pakistan army and ISI are probably your best bet to keep this region safe from falling into a total turmoil and chaos. Like I said earlier, Americans will move on for their next invasion pursuits elsewhere in the world but all the Pakistan neighbours are stuck here. Ask any African country how its like being a Somalia’s neighbour.

[mastaan]

my dear respected neighbour,

before logging into this forum I had to read the sickening news of the murder of 3 Hindu doctors at the hands of some criminals despite what I said earlier, whenever there is a terrorist atrocity anywhere in the world in general and specially in Subcontinent I feel the same sadness as I will if its happening in my hometown.

I understand what you are saying but wait a moment and think, Israel, and America dont live in the neighbourhood so they don’t care about the consequences whereas if India takes part in any such misadventure it will have to take the brunt of that. retaliation is any nations right and it will use anything that really hurts the possible instigators and collaborators.

Like Santro has explained earlier, we really are on the edge at the moment, we got growing insurgency, a failed diplomatic front, an army that is fighting an unending war with the terrorists (and having to sell it to its population that its in Pakistan’s interest) and if that’s not enough we are being blamed for the failure of NATO in Afghanistan too because a few thousand Haqqani men are able to bruise the tens of thousands of NATO forces and world’s best war machinery in the history.

So while we confront, talk-down and ban the terrorist sympathisers, our politicians, our clerics, our scholars and public figures pay with their lives for condemning the terrorists , our generals get shot at while going to work and some of them get executed along with children and then we hear some western news Anchor and pundit talking about our generals collaborating with Taliban and together with numb skulls in the US administration advocating attacks on Pakistan? Wow I mean wow you know who laughs in this situation? The terrorists and their sympathisers who mock the general public and the army for fighting the Taliban and still getting all the bad mouthing from the Americans. They say, it serves you well, go ahead and side with Americans and that’s what you get.

I hate clinches but let me share one with you, Pakistan army and ISI are probably your best bet to keep this region safe from falling into a total turmoil and chaos. Like I said earlier, Americans will move on for their next invasion pursuits elsewhere in the world but all the Pakistan neighbours are stuck here. Ask any African country how its like being a Somalia’s neighbour.

Irfan, i think I did agree with you, completely, in my post. My para 2 and point 2, point out the basic fallacy in the poster's silly logic that he just proposed the start of WWIII on the back of special forces and that why would India fight with its neighbor to surrender to the war lust of people from 1000s of miles away... I am a firm believer that we can not think about burning our neighbor's house without being aware that that fire WILL enter my house... An unstable pakistan is not in anyone's interest... specuially not in Indias... Luckily, 'neither our population nor our government' are so screwed up in our minds that we could wish for something that catastrophic...

So far as America is concerned... India knows their intentions as the best war mongering machine of the world... the don't have friends or enemies... they have interests... and interests, as we know them are never permanent.. However, Indian administration and public will not be enslaved and we have a long history to show for it...

RIP to those 4 doctors, who were slaughtered... I do have a questio though... Why is it that though Hindus, who are such a small community in Pakistan are still not safe... why is it that there are always news about them being singled out as a community (and I am reasonably sure, they don't get into religion related issues with majorty)? Is it more of a local issue or a broader ideological 'no acceptance of another religion' thing?

[outstream]

Indian, american, israel, nato air force simultaneously launching an attack at multiple fronts.
One group involved in taking down paf while the other taking nuke facility to reduce resistances for sf's (simultaneously).
While this is going on sf's need to be dropped to secure the nukes and the installations.

Indian, american navy enforcing a blockade.
Indian amphibious and us marine force opening multiple fronts across pak.
India should execute cold start.

The success of this operation will rely on how efficiently all this action is taken simultaneously without any glitch and how well researched action plan india, usa, israel & nato come up with.

This should be well practiced before hand in the guise of joint exercise so enemy has little or no doubt.

loads and loads of intel needed for this.

dude!!!!..you`ve got some imagination I must say. I am sure your own military leaders will go LMAO after reading what you`ve written.

[DARKY]

any sources blogs , un confirmed rumours or news for this ? except for black hawk , none of the other heli's are stealthy ... anyways get back to the topic

Cannot say much on the sources... they were a few credible posters from some defense forum... claiming as such and it looked quiet obvious with their explanation about the things and event....

About stealth... did that matter much.... they had chinooks coming to the rescue to downed chopper crew... which would have an extremely High signature for any Radar in vicinity.... besides the radar were switched off as claimed by your AF.

[Irfan Baloch]

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RIP to those 4 doctors, who were slaughtered... I do have a questio though... Why is it that though Hindus, who are such a small community in Pakistan are still not safe... why is it that there are always news about them being singled out as a community (and I am reasonably sure, they don't get into religion related issues with majorty)? Is it more of a local issue or a broader ideological 'no acceptance of another religion' thing?

yes more of a local issue and they are a fair game as are the rest. Karokari and Kali are Sindh's dark practices that result in the deaths and displacement of everyone whatever the religion at the hands of the feud lords

there is no special treatment for Hindus, anyone who is weak would do. Since our society is polarised and intolerance is at the height so you see more of these incidents and having a free and open media also means nothing can be brushed under the carpet.

there is a risk that the religious terrorists will try to claim the responsibility and given the current situation there might be a truth in it too. But all in all Hindus in Sidh, Punjab and settled Khayber Pankhtunkwa

in Balochistan some women were beaten up after they were kidnapped by their angry relatives for marrying someone their tribes didn’t approve. they were buried half dead and half alive and it was justified as a sacred tradition, point to note is all of them were Muslims.

re topic, I know, its been 60+ years since we got independence so hostilities are still high maybe we need to exist for another 100 year to be able to accept each other and stop wishing the total annihilation. Britain and France have managed that so I think so can we. A mutual economic benefit can mean that hostilities can change into friendship the tri-national gas pipeline between Iran-Pakistan and India was a chance but sadly USA managed to twist the Indian wrist too hard that it backed off from the deal although the nuclear deal as a reward was sweet but there are larger regional implications here.

Its serves the west well if the confrontations continue because suckers like us will continue to buy their weapons and then rage over our mutual hatred over the web and airwaves. Finally re any planned attack, I can tell you for certain there will be one entity that would love to see that scenario becoming a reality is the terrorists because they will see it as an opportunity to claim their propaganda victory and possibly fancy a chance of getting hold of anything for themselves which our Allies are planning to attack and destroy.

Only time will tell how the things play out but its lesson once again that international diplomacy is really unpredictable without permanent enemies and friends this might not apply with Russia & India and China & Pakistan but it definitely applies with any other country that has had relations with Pakistan and/ or India.