Stable Pakistan not in India’s interest

[third eye]

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Any condemnation, as an Indian, of the views expressed by the author?

AM,

A lot depends on what is considered " stable" with ref to Pak. Lets see this :

Option 1:Democratically elected Govt with all organs of the state " doing their own job" only.. The experiments with democracy have never been successful thus far & have invariably ended with a Mil take over which is a two - step back situation.

Option 2;Military GovtI am possibly stiring a hornets nest,but notwithstanding what ppl on this forum may feel, I feel Military has possibly been the greatest source of embarrassment to Pak. I say this for the following ;

a) The events in '47 -48 remained inconclusive ( you may argue that it " saved J&K"), but a job left incomplete is as good as not done - militarily speaking.

b) Ayub Khan's era.Cannot comment on what he did internally, but it formalised military interference in Civ affairs which continues today- hence the uncertainty both internally & world wide. The failure of Op Gibraltar again speaks of poor performance & avoidable escalation of bitterness which resulted in dismemberment of the nation in the next conflict. Lahore was ‘ saved” only coz the military objective of the IA of reducing pressure on Akhnoor was achieved. Militarily speaking, capturing towns & cities does not make sense. Threatening a Hi value objective is sufficient to make the enemy recoil – this was achieved.

C ) Yahya Khan's period. Barely needs to be commented upon. The sense of bewilderment the nation must have faced when being suddenly told that the Eastern Command has surrendered & the E wing of the nation has been lost forever closely following the propaganda that the war is as good as won can be fathomed. It speaks well of the nation for not having lynched those responsible and taken it in their stride albeit with a handful of salt.

d) Bhutto's PM ship He did on the face of it stabilise a rocking boat. But then the Simla agreement signed as it now appears only with aim of seeking return of POW's & prevent war crime trials was glossed over later which is taken as an example whenever accords are signed / thought of with pakistan - Lahore declaration too was " cold stored" even while the ink was wet. Bhutto’s hanging by the next Gen showed a very " mean" streak in national polity which again speaks on its stability.

e) Zia Ul haq's times He played his cards well or so he then thought. Gave Pak a uninterrupted period of governance. His actions on two issues weakened Pak immeasurably - encouraging religious fundamentalism at national & military level & involvement in afghanistan. While he played the afghan card well to secure best possible payoffs for Pak, he de - stabilised the nation( Kalashnikov Culture & beyond) & the region (J&K, afghanistan). Look back & see what did the nation achieve ? Some may rightly feel it was good & necessary but when compared with other national objectives of Governance where does it stand ? Would Pak have been better off without him ? He not only hung a PM but he hung democracy & power of the ppl to decide for themselves. The cancer that spread in his times is still being treated with indifferent results.

The period that followed thereafter BB - twice, NS could not succeed simply coz nothing grows in shade & saplings need time to grow. Repeated transplantations led to a Bonsai instead of a sturdy tree.

f) BB & Nawaz Can't say much except that politicians the world over are mostly corrupt, appear in efficient and promote their kin. Its the people who decide if they return or go- not the military. Even as the Lahore declaration was being signed, intrusions were taking place in Kargil. It does not matter if NS knew it or not. Either way it showed the world how unstable & unpredictable Pak was. More so, the sanctity of the spoken or written word was violated again. It also brought up major Q's that is asked repeatedly - who is control in Pak ? How many centers of power exist ? Whom do you deal with ?

g) Musharraf. The manner in which NS was overthrown showed that plans existed for such a contingency ( stability, intrigue ..?). In his later years he became “deal able” to an extent. He however came with the credentials of a Gen who was disloyal to his Govt (pls do not take my remark otherwise, but a Mil man has to obey first & argue later unless the nation is at war & the integrity of the nation is at stake. Even then, he must account for his actions at the 1st available opportunity). What example can a Gen set to his command who has violated the basics himself- there cannot be two sets of rules , one for the General & another for the rank & file. This I may add applied to all – Ayub onwards.
The U – turn he made post 9/11 in hind sight showed him world over as a man who could not relied upon. Here is a man who would gladly let down a fellow muslim whom he swore to stand by . That to at the behest of US ? and.. get paid for it ? If he was not “ saga’ to his own kin / religion whom will he stand by ? What if China , Russia or any other country ( hypothetically) applied greater pressure & made larger threats .. would the US also be abandoned ?
Having unsuccessfully tried Kargil( another example of a military operation not ' thought of ' till its logical end), he then stretches a hand of friendship..would you trust someone like this ? Circumstances may compel u to deal with him but trust ..no. Did the world not see this ?
Personally, I think he was the most well meaning leader of Pak ( for Pak) in recent times. He had poor advisors( sacking of Judiciary, sham elections , etc) who fed him with falsehoods as Indira Gandhi was during the emergency in 75 -77.

The recent case of the PM issuing instructions to / on the ISI which were countermanded when he was abroad lead all to wonder again .. who is in charge ? what if some thing like this were to happen to the nukes ?

Effects on the region Ask the average afghan how he feels abt Pak ..the border issue remains unsolved, it did not even support entry of Pak to the UN way back in the late 40’s. I do not wish to fight the afghan cause here but no one like to be taken for granted. Afghanistan was / is considered a part of the ‘ strategic depth’ of Pak in an Indo – Pak conflict. How would Pak have felt if Iran felt the same of Pak in an Iraq – Iran conflict ?

There has always been an underlying current of intrigue in the Pak polity . While this is known & expected of us S Asians & politicians are expected to horse trade but when the armed forces start doing this then who is left to save the situation ?

In any case, was the army any less corrupt than the politicians ? Only the deeds of the politicians were / are visible while ‘camouflage & concealment’ comes naturally to a soldier .

Internally , there are swathes of mountanious regions which were never under anybodys control.The border on the West has been violated regularly, no one knows who lives where & in which cave.

It is possible I have digressed at times, but what I want to say is that if all what I have mentioned above were indicators of a stable Pakistan, how much worse can an unstable one be for India ?

What diff will it make to India is Pak get de stabilized ? How much worse can things get ?

[Flintlock]

1. Forget kashmir
2. Concentrate on building an educated and prosperous society.

Above is the key to Pakistan's stability

[IceCold]

1. Forget kashmir

Tell Kashmires that and if they accept, we will automatically accept that. Till then i guess we would like to hang on to the issue.

2. Concentrate on building an educated and prosperous society.

We dont need a reminder on that and certainly our society isnt that backwards either as you portray it to be.

[Flintlock]

Tell Kashmires that and if they accept, we will automatically accept that. Till then i guess we would like to hang on to the issue.
.

Well then I guess you will continue to degrade your own society into chaos. Its your choice.

[Spring Onion]

1. Forget kashmir
2. Concentrate on building an educated and prosperous society.

Above is the key to Pakistan's stability

Although your comment is off topic but since you liked to put it here, so let me remind you that the article has been written by an Indian claimed to be an expert on defence has suggested breaking Pakistan as usual while forgeting altogather at the same time that India is faced with many insurgencies which will continue to be a headach for her as usual unless India Concentrate on own problems, on building an educated and prosperous society instead of focusing brewing sinister plans to break Pakistan.

i wonder a socity that itself have not much education and prosperity howcome you came up with and idea to preach to others.

[Awesome]

Well then I guess you will continue to degrade your own society into chaos. Its your choice.

Let's put aside your prophecies a second.

The topic here is what INDIA will continue to do to degrade Pakistani society into chaos...

Plenty.

I must agree with unforgotton_man, it's a no brainer. Problem is when I talk to Pakistanis they've forgotten this fact. They've even forgotten Kashmiris. Too busy with petty issues.

Forgetting India, and Forgetting Kashmir has caused Pakistan's current turmoil. With that said I do not mean we become obsessed with India as India's obsessed with Pak, BJP equivalents in Pakistan will win elections here too then. Rather we need to be aware of India.

India is up to no good, just that.

[Zaheerkhan]

to condem this article, it urges in me...but, to think of this with an open mind , and to relate to this...unfortunately..what-ever written in this article is actually true.

[Contrarian]

Forgetting India, and Forgetting Kashmir has caused Pakistan's current turmoil.

I believe that line needs some elaboration Asim..? If its the ONE thing that you cannot blame India for is Pakistan's current mess. Its Pakistan's own doing.

[Awesome]

I believe that line needs some elaboration Asim..? If its the ONE thing that you cannot blame India for is Pakistan's current mess. Its Pakistan's own doing.

Leaving the political mess aside, which seems to be correcting itself these days, the militancy in Pak is all because of those 9-20 Indian consulates in Afghanistan.

[Spring Onion]

to condem this article, it urges in me...but, to think of this with an open mind , and to relate to this...unfortunately..what-ever written in this article is actually true.

Actualy that is the born dream of many in India only at the helm of affairs.


So it means small, 'economicaly and militarily weak' Pakistan is a fearing factor in life of many Indians.

Imagine when CIA/RAW/MOSSAD love affair end in a mess what will be the situation then? if you guys after 60 years still dream of breaking Pakistan out of fear what will be the situation once yanks are defeated and Pakistan back to normal situation.

[Contrarian]

Leaving the political mess aside, which seems to be correcting itself these days, the militancy in Pak is all because of those 9-20 Indian consulates in Afghanistan.

So the militancy is not at all related to your home grown terrorists or TTP, or the fact that Pakistan is FINALLY trying to exert its writ in these areas. Previously Pakistan never even tried to bring these areas under control. Or also the fact that the Taliban has taken refuge in these areas, which is normal for them, to launch attacks in Afghanistan.

Nice work Asim! And i though Pakistani's are finally realizing the folly of breeding terrorism.

[Spring Onion]

So the militancy is not at all related to your home grown terrorists or TTP, or the fact that Pakistan is FINALLY trying to exert its writ in these areas. Previously Pakistan never even tried to bring these areas under control. Or also the fact that the Taliban has taken refuge in these areas, which is normal for them, to launch attacks in Afghanistan.

Nice work Asim! And i though Pakistani's are finally realizing the folly of breeding terrorism.

AS if India had realised its home grown terrorists.

As far TTP is concerned its a proxy organisation being funded and supported by CIA and RAW pluse recently the German intellegence have also joined them to destabalise Pakistan.

No one is happy more than Indians over current situation in Pakistan and Afghanistan as it has given Indians a free hand in Afghanistan to launch terror activities inside Pakistan through proxy TTP.

[dk33]

1. Forget kashmir
2. Concentrate on building an educated and prosperous society.

Above is the key to Pakistan's stability

Thanks for derailing the topic

[dk33]

Well then I guess you will continue to degrade your own society into chaos. Its your choice.

Not at all - supporting militant groups in Kashmir has negative implications for Pakistan, supporting the legal and moral rights of Kashmiris to a plebiscite does not.

But back to the subject please.

[fatman17]

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^^^i think a stable pakistan is in the interest of all countries of south asia. the only problem lies in the fact that india wants to be the "big brother" to all these countries.

having completely marginalized nepal. bhutan. maldives, BD (to a major extent). sri lanka and pakistan are the 2 countries who are not accepting indian "dictat" and therefore the tit-for-tat intrigues will continue while the people suffer un-necessarily.

i was in india recently (mumbai) and i could not believe the attitude of the indian print & TV, intoxicated with blaming pakistan directly and indirectly for anything and everything.

the holier than thou attitude is shameful, to say the least!