Pakistan and the S.C.O (Shanghai Cooperation Organization)

[A1Kaid]

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Shanghai Cooperation Organization

"The Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) is an intergovernmental international organization founded in Shanghai on 15 June 2001 by six countries: China, Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. Its member states cover an area of over 30 million km2, or about three fifths of Eurasia, with a population of 1.455 billion, about a quarter of the world's total. Its working languages are Chinese and Russian.


SCO's predecessor, the Shanghai Five mechanism, originated and grew from the endeavor by China, Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan to strengthen confidence-building and disarmament in the border regions. In 1996 and 1997, their heads of state met in Shanghai and Moscow respectively and signed the Treaty on Deepening Military Trust in Border Regions and the Treaty on Reduction of Military Forces in Border Regions. There after, this annual meeting became a regular practice and has been held alternately in the five member states. The topics of the meeting gradually extended from building up trust in the border regions to mutually beneficial cooperation in the political, security, diplomatic, economic, trade and other areas among the five states. The President of Uzbekistan was invited to the 2000 Dushanbe Summit as a guest of the host state. As the first meeting of the five heads of state took place in Shanghai, the cooperation mechanism was later known as the "Shanghai Five". " -GlobalSecurity.Org

Source: Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO)

Hu's Proposals at SCO Summit Hailed in Pakistan, Mongolia

"The proposal made by Chinese President Hu Jintao at the sixth summit of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) was hailed Thursday in Pakistan and Mongolia, two of the four observers of the regional group.

Pakistan appreciates the constructive ideas China put forward on Thursday's SCO summit, Pakistani Foreign Office spokesperson Tasnim Aslam told Xinhua News Agency in Islamabad.

Hu's proposal will help enhance cooperation among the SCO members and observers, she said. Pakistan has been able to benefit from the very constructive steps so far the SCO has taken, she added.

President Hu proposed forming a convention for lasting good neighborhood relations and cooperation within the Shanghai Cooperation Organization."-(Xinhua News Agency June 16, 2006)

Source: Hu's Proposals at SCO Summit Hailed in Pakistan, Mongolia -- china.org.cn


Pakistan hopes to enhance cooperation with SCO members


"Pakistani Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz here Monday expressed the hope that his country's participation in the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) forum as an observer would open new avenues of cooperation with other countries in the region.

This forum would also provide opportunity to further strengthen Pakistan's ties with the member states, Aziz told reporters before his departure for Kazakhstan on a three-day visit to participate in the SCO forum which starts on Tuesday. " -Xinhua News Agency

Source:People's Daily Online -- Pakistan hopes to enhance cooperation with SCO members


Sixth Summit of the S.C.O in Shanghai, China on June 15, 2006. (Xinhua Photo)



Remember the Focus and Topic of this Thread is to Discuss the following.

1) Pakistan and the S.C.O
2) Is the S.C.O a Threat to NATO?
3) Pro's and Con's of Pakistan joining the S.C.O


Official Website of the S.C.O

Official Website of SCO Summit

[gpit]

Very interesting.

My understanding is that Russia tends to make SCO more a military alliance, but China wants it to be more economical and anti-terrorism organization. Therefore, for the short term, even medium term, it will not be a military group, much less an anti-NATO one.

As far as Pakistan membership is concerned, Russia and China want to strike a balance between Pakistan and India. IMHO, they will not allow the organization to stall due to huge difference of members’ opinion and will not allow creating a chance for one member to use it against the other member.

For the moment, an observer status for Pakistan is probably perfect. Many other countries requests for observer are rumored declined (Belarus, for instance).

[Black Stone]

Very interesting.

My understanding is that Russia tends to make SCO more a military alliance, but China wants it to be more economical and anti-terrorism organization. Therefore, for the short term, even medium term, it will not be a military group, much less an anti-NATO one.

That's right, that's because the Chinese are smart and they want to engage and work with the US, while the Russians wants to challenge us...as you may have figured, the Russians are still upset about what happened to the Soviet Union and when the US stands on one side of the playground, they would stand on the otherside for the sake of opposition.

If SCO stays as a anti-terror and economic bloc it is not a threat, but when it becomes militarized, then it would be a threat to NATO.

As far as Pakistan membership is concerned, Russia and China want to strike a balance between Pakistan and India. IMHO, they will not allow the organization to stall due to huge difference of members’ opinion and will not allow creating a chance for one member to use it against the other member.

Pakistan would not be allowed to join aslong as India is not joining. I mean come on...the Russians aren't stupid. They would not allow the grouping to swing more into favor of the Chinese. Likewise, India will not join aslong Pakistan is not joining. This is similar to the Turkey/Greece love affair.

For the moment, an observer status for Pakistan is probably perfect. Many other countries requests for observer are rumored declined (Belarus, for instance).

Yes, both Pakistan and India are observers and they would stay like this until both enters the same time. Belarus, I believe it was the Russians that objected saying they are more European or something.

You can never understand how the Russians think.

[Ali.009]

SCO is mainly a military and security pact. Economic objective is an obvious thing, but not the main purpose. India will most probably not join SCO even if Pakistan does, shrewd indian policies work for their own interest by using others. India will never join any world bloc, eastern or western. In the commin conflict of East and West. SCO vs NATO, india will like to keep itself netural.

Due to historical relations and trade routes, Pakistan should join SCO.

[T-Rex]

SCO is mainly a military and security pact. Economic objective is an obvious thing, but not the main purpose. India will most probably not join SCO even if Pakistan does, shrewd indian policies work for their own interest by using others. India will never join any world bloc, eastern or western. In the commin conflict of East and West. SCO vs NATO, india will like to keep itself netural.

Due to historical relations and trade routes, Pakistan should join SCO.

Pakistan should join, but whether it will be allowed to join remains uncertain. Besides, Pakistan's present government will do everything in its power to stay away from it as it will displease those who have brought PPP to power.

[Awesome]

Pakistan should join if India is kept out of it. We don't want to join another SAARC.

[A1Kaid]

See one of the major differences between NATO and SCO is that NATO countries are more commonly alike as far as Geo-political interest, religion, culture, media, and language is concerned.

NATO countries like USA, UK, France, Spain, Germany, Italy, are more alike and friendly with one another than S.C.O countries are, the S.C.O countries are considerably different as far as "Geo-political interest, religion, culture, media, and language is concerned." So it is difficult for them to see eye-to-eye as NATO countries may do. NATO countries also have better cooperation amongst themselves it appears.

S.C.O Countries

Russia , China, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, are much culturally different from one another, have different languages, different interests. I understand S.C.O is more about regional security, but these major difference may highly prevent the S.C.O from evolving into something more.


I really don't see a great future for Pakistan in the S.C.O. For God sakes when will we return to the True Quran and understand we must unite the Muslims under the banner of the great Kilafah, I understand the difficulties involved, I understand the challenges ahead, and I understand the arguments. I also understand what Allah has commanded, and what the Quran has mentioned, what the precedent of the Great Muslims before me did and sought to do.

The Kilafah is the Answer!

[Marshal]

Pakistan should join if India is kept out of it. We don't want to join another SAARC.

The fact is the Indian govt has no desire to join SCO for certain reasons.
There are number of articles and observation available on net specifically on this issue and most of them are suggesting the same. you can check this one out

EurasiaNet Eurasia Insight - The Shanghai Cooperation Organization: Cracks Behind the Facade

some quotes from the article: this one is two year old but the Indian govt stand hasnt change from that yet......

Meanwhile, Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf attended to Shanghai summit, where he lobbied for Islamabad’s membership, emphasizing Pakistan’s location as the bridge to the Indian Ocean. SCO members remain wary of Pakistan, due to the country’s ongoing association with the Taliban and other Islamic radical groups. [For background see the Eurasia Insight archive]. Even if the SCO didn’t have such concerns, the organization would probably be reluctant to accept Pakistan as a full member without doing the same for India.

Thus the fact that India doesn’t seem interested in full membership at this time constitutes a substantial obstacle for Pakistan. India’s stance toward the SCO was underscored by Prime Minister’s Manmohan Singh absence from the Shanghai summit. New Dehli has been improving its relationship with Washington, and believes Russia and China want to use the SCO mainly as a platform from which to launch diplomatic attacks against the United States. At the same time, India wants to maintain touch with the organization out of a desire to cooperate with Beijing and Moscow on energy issues and direct security threats affecting the three states.

[xlordsin]

That's right, that's because the Chinese are smart and they want to engage and work with the US, while the Russians wants to challenge us...as you may have figured, the Russians are still upset about what happened to the Soviet Union and when the US stands on one side of the playground, they would stand on the otherside for the sake of opposition.

Well first of all hell no! We Chinese don't want to work with USA! Chinese PLA have won the war against US in both Vietnam war and Korean war, so there is no point to become slaves of US like the Japanese does (Really, when US told Japanese govt to do something, they must do it or something bad will happen to them).

SCO is made as an anti-NATO/US or counterbalance of US and NATO, also for Economic treaty and cultural treaty and ofcourse border security. SCO have held lots of Joint forces for preparing to strike the US startegy and tactics, well the US have read alot of Chinese Sun Tzu's Art of War book isn't she? If we Chinese make that book and the skill inside the book is deadly startegy and thoughts, that mean only one key can unlock it, that is the 'Chinese Civilisation'!

Anyway, back to the topic. We are once for all is anti US...

You can never understand how the Russians think.

Well I do understand... They hates USA so do we! We communism, US democracy. Remember, Communism=everyone is equal, Democracy=slaves are avalaible.


There is one thing remaining as the result, and it's allies , Russia, and other countries of SCO, are all free countries from the evil .

***WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY TO ALL THE FREE COUNTRY IS: PROUD TO BE A FREE COUNTRY***

XD

[A1Kaid]

Well first of all hell no! We Chinese don't want to work with USA! Chinese PLA have won the war against US in both Vietnam war and Korean war, so there is no point to become slaves of US like the Japanese does (Really, when US told Japanese govt to do something, they must do it or something bad will happen to them).

SCO is made as an anti-NATO/US or counterbalance of US and NATO, also for Economic treaty and cultural treaty and ofcourse border security. SCO have held lots of Joint forces for preparing to strike the US startegy and tactics, well the US have read alot of Chinese Sun Tzu's Art of War book isn't she? If we Chinese make that book and the skill inside the book is deadly startegy and thoughts, that mean only one key can unlock it, that is the 'Chinese Civilisation'!

Anyway, back to the topic. We are once for all is anti US...




Well I do understand... They hates USA so do we! We communism, US democracy. Remember, Communism=everyone is equal, Democracy=slaves are avalaible.


There is one thing remaining as the result, and it's allies , Russia, and other countries of SCO, are all free countries from the evil .

***WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY TO ALL THE FREE COUNTRY IS: PROUD TO BE A FREE COUNTRY***

XD

Interesting point about US-Japan relations. I understand that today the US dictates a lot of what Japan does. For example, Japan wanted to open diplomatic relations with Iran, but since the United States has conflict and disagreement with Iran over it's controversial Nuclear Program, Japan was no longer allowed to have diplomatic relations with Iran because of US orders...

[Black Stone]

Pakistan should join if India is kept out of it. We don't want to join another SAARC.

Agree, that Pakistan should join the SCO as the Chinese strongly supports this and it is in Pakistan's interest. The only problem here are the Russians. They would not allow Pakistan to join unless India joins aswell.

To put it simply...it's either both join or both stay out.

[Black Stone]

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Well first of all hell no! We Chinese don't want to work with USA! Chinese PLA have won the war against US in both Vietnam war and Korean war, so there is no point to become slaves of US like the Japanese does (Really, when US told Japanese govt to do something, they must do it or something bad will happen to them).

I see, so you prefer the confrontational approach. That is real smart. Let's not forget that being the enemy of the Great S@tan is never a good thing. No-one mentions slaves here apart from you. Looks like cooperation does not exist in your dictionary.

Japan is not comparable to China, they played bad in WWII, we slap their hands and put them in their place. Now, they are just our puppets like many of you would like to call it. This is what happens when you get wooped by the Great S@tan himself.

Lucky for China, your not the policy maker.

SCO is made as an anti-NATO/US or counterbalance of US and NATO, also for Economic treaty and cultural treaty and ofcourse border security. SCO have held lots of Joint forces for preparing to strike the US startegy and tactics, well the US have read alot of Chinese Sun Tzu's Art of War book isn't she? If we Chinese make that book and the skill inside the book is deadly startegy and thoughts, that mean only one key can unlock it, that is the 'Chinese Civilisation'!

It looks like you lack knowledge of the purpose of SCO. All that is in you is hate...full of hate of the Great S@tan, but that is OK with me, your not the only one in this world. But do you know what the funny thing is? Despite all the hate...despite all the dissatisfaction...despite all the anger rooted deep inside of you...you simply can't do anything but cry your heart out on this forum and other forums. I know how you feel.

The one thing you have said correct is the Sun Tzu book, indeed that is a good book, infact I have that book too. No doubt our generals and many other generals have read the book. You say unlocking? OK you lost me there.

I give you credit for the good book, but let's face it. The book is not the magic bullet to conflicts...it is not a magic book where you read and you win every war. The book only gives you the theory behind his thoughts of warfare.

Another note you missed out is since the book has been translated into many languages, other military commanders would learn and know the art behind it, making you guys obsolete is tactical suprises. As you guys would put it, I believe you call it, Knowing your enemy and knowing yourself.

Anyway, back to the topic. We are once for all is anti US...

That's nice, depsite how much you hate us we still love you guys.

Well I do understand... They hates USA so do we! We communism, US democracy. Remember, Communism=everyone is equal, Democracy=slaves are avalaible.

I know you hate us already, but tell me this...what do you plan to do about it?

There is one thing remaining as the result, and it's allies , Russia, and other countries of SCO, are all free countries from the evil .

OK, that is a funny post, please tell me the meaning of FREE? Sadly to tell you, the Russians are not your allies, they actually see you as a threat. They are wary about your people flooding the Russian far east like there is no tomorrow not to mention a stronger China is a closer threat than the evil

***WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY TO ALL THE FREE COUNTRY IS: PROUD TO BE A FREE COUNTRY***

XD

Again, tell me what do you mean by FREE? Are you referring to your people?