Why is Pakistan afraid of international perception when testing its ICBM?

[genmirajborgza786]

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Below pictures are self-explanatory:


Pakistans Shaheen


Chinas DF11





North Korean Nodong missile



Pakistans Ghauri missile

in that case even India has got the brahmos from Russia's p-800 oniks

brahmos : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ahmos_imds.jpg

p-800 oniks : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...83/Yakhont.jpg

Pakistan has a full fledged developed nuclear weapons program an industrial base & missiles plant it might have got some missile with transfer of technology
but that doesn't mean that it don't have the ability to make missile of course it does & it makes its own missiles, its not just an missile assembly plant in fact Pakistan has a full fledged industrial base & complex with active research & developments R&D's to make their own missiles

any way whether you accept it or not does not change ground realities

just my two cents

he who underestimates ones adversary does so in favor of his adversary.........

[Developereo]

No it does not. Pakistan does what suits its national interest. If and when it suits Pakistan will take this action. remember nukes test?? we did it when we thought it appropriate even though Americans were begging us not to??

There is always a matter of weighing the pros and cons of any action. In the case of Pakistan, given the current climate of antagonism and the chances of opportunistic reactions by certain countries, Pakistan needs to decide if an ICBM test is worth the potential benefits (whatever they may be).

Chest beating has its benefits but, if there are no other tangible benefits, then common sense should prevail.

Left One Of course , I dont Trust Jews ,

Let's not fall into this trap: our quarrel is not with Jews or Judaism.

Not all Jews are Zionists; many of then are actively against Zionism, and some of the most rabid Zionists are not Jewish at all.

By the same analogy,

Yes, we all noticed that you have been getting ever more shrill in your desperate bid for attention in the last few pages.

Most people, other than a few Indians, ignore you. With good reason.

I, too, can't be bothered with your uninformed, inane pleas for attention, but do carry on...

[vsdoc]

Yes, we all noticed that you have been getting ever more shrill in your desperate bid for attention in the last few pages.

Most people, other than a few Indians, ignore you. With good reason.

I, too, can't be bothered with your uninformed, inane pleas for attention, but do carry on...

LOL was it something I said?

Aap educated ho bhai. Australia mein jo baithe ho.

As Asim said, aap khush ho jao.

[shuntmaster]

in that case even India has got the brahmos from Russia's p-800 oniks

brahmos : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ahmos_imds.jpg

p-800 oniks : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...83/Yakhont.jpg

India never claimed that Bhramos is 100% indigenous. It was always Indo-Russian joint venture. Even the name suggests it. Its the combination of Bhramaputra river of India and Moskva river of Russia. That is why the range is limited to less than 300KMS. as per MTCR requirements.
On the other hand, it is very evident that Shaheen and Ghauri missiles of Pakistan are developed by China and N.Korea respectively and just renamed and repainted by Pakistan. All the technological development of these missiles are done outside Pakistan and hence Pakistan doesn't have the technological base to develop these missiles for longer ranges, without the help from China or N.Korea.

[IceCold]

In my opinion its not related to international but rather local perception. Because our threat perception is limited to India only. It should had been changed when the US threaten to bomb us back to stone age but sadly did not happen and the main reason is our governments.
Firstly it was Musharraf who needed a western nod for his military government and now its Zardari and co, what can we expect from the likes of him.
PPP has always been known to reduce funding for our nuclear program, i am highly skeptical if we have developed tech for a 7000 km missile as some people say.

[gessler]

It should had been changed when the US threaten to bomb us back to stone age

When was this? There are differences but when did they threaten to bomb you? I wasn't aware.

i am highly skeptical if we have developed tech for a 7000 km missile as some people say.

At this part I can assure you wouldn't have. Even a true IRBM (3500+km) is still yet to
come. Forget ICBM. There isn't actually any plan to develop them either because a slight
range increase to even the current generation of missiles would fulfill requirement. By
trying to build IRBM/ICBM pakistan would only end up making more enemies. The govt.
is aware of it. the military is aware of it. Everyone else is too except a few fanboys here
who've taken after website-origin hoaxes like Taimur/Tipu. They don't exist, they're not even
in development.

[deckingraj]

In my opinion its not related to international but rather local perception. Because our threat perception is limited to India only.

This one is the crux of the matter...There is a reason we went with only 5000...because we don't need anything more than this as per our threat perception....same logic applies to Pakistan...Rest of the stuff in your post is hardly making sense and is dangerous...let me dwell into it...

It should had been changed when the US threaten to bomb us back to stone age but sadly did not happen and the main reason is our governments.

No the main reason is sanity...There are some sane strategist sitting out there who knows you cannot make an enemy out of US...Present pakistan cannot make even an enemy out of India but that is a topic for some other thread...hypothetically speaking even if you have an ICBM yet US can push you back to stone age militarily as well as diplomatically...so let's have no confusion about it....

Firstly it was Musharraf who needed a western nod for his military government and now its Zardari and co, what can we expect from the likes of him. PPP has always been known to reduce funding for our nuclear program, i am highly skeptical if we have developed tech for a 7000 km missile as some people say.

Not sure what are you going to do with 7000KM missile....b/w you already have enough nukes...60-80-100 whatever that number is should be good enough to act as a deterrant...rest is nothing but some obsession...

[Solomon2]

Let's not fall into this trap: our quarrel is not with Jews or Judaism.Not all Jews are Zionists; many of then are actively against Zionism, and some of the most rabid Zionists are not Jewish at all.

You are already deep in the morass, Developereo, if you are busy putting down Zionism to defend Jews rather than embracing Israel as a means of attacking the anti-Semitic, anti-minority disease that is consuming Pakistan: link

[deckingraj]

There is always a matter of weighing the pros and cons of any action. In the case of Pakistan, given the current climate of antagonism and the chances of opportunistic reactions by certain countries, Pakistan needs to decide if an ICBM test is worth the potential benefits (whatever they may be).

Chest beating has its benefits but, if there are no other tangible benefits, then common sense should prevail

I think first Pakistan needs to decide if it even needs an ICBM....worrying about the reactions is later part....b/w i am not sure who are you refering to but we would be the one who are going to be least bothered should you chose to go for ICBM...The countries who are going to harp would be Europeans and USofA....

[Developereo]

You are already deep in the morass, Developereo, if you are busy putting down Zionism to defend Jews rather than embracing Israel as a means of attacking the anti-Semitic, anti-minority disease that is consuming Pakistan: link

Unfortunately, what was and should have been a dispute over land has been turned into a religious conflict by the Zionists from the very beginning. As the then chief of the Haganah explained, the Zionist strategy pre-1948 was to drive non-Jews out of Palestine using any means necessary, including terror. When people were kicked out simply for not being Jewish, how can you be surprised that they would see the conflict in a religious manner?

So, as much as I deplore the perpetuation of the religious angle, Israel has to shoulder its share of the blame for bringing religion into the mix in the first place.

I think first Pakistan needs to decide if it even needs an ICBM....worrying about the reactions is later part....b/w i am not sure who are you refering to but we would be the one who are going to be least bothered should you chose to go for ICBM...The countries who are going to harp would be Europeans and USofA....

The West, certainly, but India would also extract maximum mileage out of any such uproar. Even if Pakistan pursued a peaceful space program, the detractors would hype up the dual use military potential of any technology.

[American Pakistani]

I think it's right time for Pakistan to test it's ICBM.

Pakistan must not live under the threat of a neighbour who tested (with foriegn help) it's ICBM.

[lightoftruth]

I think it's right time for Pakistan to test it's ICBM.

Pakistan must not live under the threat of a neighbour who tested (with foriegn help) it's ICBM.

refrain from diverting the thread

[IceCold]

This one is the crux of the matter...There is a reason we went with only 5000...because we don't need anything more than this as per our threat perception....same logic applies to Pakistan...Rest of the stuff in your post is hardly making sense and is dangerous...let me dwell into it...


No the main reason is sanity...There are some sane strategist sitting out there who knows you cannot make an enemy out of US...Present pakistan cannot make even an enemy out of India but that is a topic for some other thread...hypothetically speaking even if you have an ICBM yet US can push you back to stone age militarily as well as diplomatically...so let's have no confusion about it....

Sanity is not the question here Raj, once you are threaten, you are left with very little options, either you go along and wait for your faith to catch up with you or you do something about it. The world knew Iraq did not posses WMD, yet the americans attacked in broad day light, the leader of the country was hung, this was bound to happen, why because Iraq could not defend it self. Our leaders(military, political) have their head buried in sand, i would this far as to say that currently and for the last decade US is a bigger threat to Pakistan then India ever was. I hope we are clear on this one.

Not sure what are you going to do with 7000KM missile....b/w you already have enough nukes...60-80-100 whatever that number is should be good enough to act as a deterrant...rest is nothing but some obsession...

7000 kms figure was just quoted hypothetically. Anything that can hit the US would just do fine and make no mistake about it, you cannot always defend by just keeping a defense posture. US can still send us back to stone age i have no doubt in that but once they know that Pakistan does have the capability to strike on the main land, they will think twice.

When was this? There are differences but when did they threaten to bomb you? I wasn't aware.

Right after 9/11, President received a call.

At this part I can assure you wouldn't have. Even a true IRBM (3500+km) is still yet to
come. Forget ICBM. There isn't actually any plan to develop them either because a slight
range increase to even the current generation of missiles would fulfill requirement. By
trying to build IRBM/ICBM pakistan would only end up making more enemies. The govt.
is aware of it. the military is aware of it. Everyone else is too except a few fanboys here
who've taken after website-origin hoaxes like Taimur/Tipu. They don't exist, they're not even
in development.

I am well aware of it but i choose to use the word skeptical for a reason. We do have a tendency to surprise, but then again not while we have Zardari and his bunch of thugs ruling.

[Solomon2]

Unfortunately, what was and should have been a dispute over land has been turned into a religious conflict by the Zionists -

No, my friend. My comment had less to do with the Jewish-Arab dispute than with Pakistan's own problems with hatred. Anti-Semitism, anti-minority-ism if you will, is a disease where the object hated is made to suffer as well as the people bearing the disease. That's the point of the article I linked to.

[MastanKhan]

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Hi, MK. I'm not into troll war but I do believe some (if not most of em) of Pakistan's missiles are delivered
from China/NK technology. So you see Pakistani never actually gets to assess the exact capabilities/performance
of their missiles because they dont have the codes with them. Missiles are delivered/copied/produced and
put into service just like that.

There's no professional nation in the world that can test so many parameters with a minimum number of
tests, not even US/Russia/China. But how come Pakistan just tests missiles just a few times and then
tucks them into service? That translates that are either improperly tested OR needn't be tested so much
since they are only produced versions of ready-made missiles delivered from china/NK.

Sir,

Would you stop this idiocy----a weapon is a weapon---regardless of what technology---. All your missiles are a copy of other's technologies as well---. In this day and age---it would be stupid to start all over and design your own missile from a scratch----and you can't even do that---because the hard drives of the world scientific brains have been corrupted by the WW11 missile design---until and unless you bring in a different kind of missile.

Is a person any less dead with someone else's technology---.