Era of wars over, ready to resolve all issues with India: Pakistan

[Abingdonboy]

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I'm sorry but I'll believe it when I see it-Pakistan has made such statements in the past only to go back on its word, often in a horric way aka 26/11. As long as there are terror camps in Pakistan training and indoctrinating young people to hate and kill Indians as well as masterminds of past attacks on India all protected by the government/Army this process can never move forward, these are nice words but actions speak louder.

[Oscar]

Oscar, I laud your sentiments bro, but why do you couch Pakistan's pursuit of peace with India with a "for now" twice?

What do you expect to come after that?

Nobody knows.. one cannot guarantee peace till one has tried it..
there has never been an actual opening up that has lasted
again.. the perception is not of bowing down.. or absorption.
Nobdoy is promoting intermarriages.
What is being said is simple.."We dont wish for anymore conflict.. as we hope you dont too".
Lets talk about how we can solve our problems.. and exist as most other good neighbours around the world do.
Lets draw a line where your critical interests and ours collide.. and try to find workarounds to solve issues.
And lets find ways we can co-operate in a positive fashion that will benefit us both without a compromise on any national interests.

The idea is not the all rosy picture painted by the media..
The idea is not to drop all suspicions.. the idea is to make them transparent.. but try to find where both can compromise on them and move forward.

[Amolthebest]

And who traced this? Can you show any valid proof of this or is it just BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Anyone can say things like this on the internet.

See. I am a direct descendent of Lord Ram. Prove me wrong.

Sorry to be a interrupter but Oscar's ancestry is not debating point here

[vsdoc]

Nobody knows.. one cannot guarantee peace till one has tried it..
there has never been an actual opening up that has lasted
again.. the perception is not of bowing down.. or absorption.
Nobdoy is promoting intermarriages.
What is being said is simple.."We dont wish for anymore conflict.. as we hope you dont too".
Lets talk about how we can solve our problems.. and exist as most other good neighbours around the world do.
Lets draw a line where your critical interests and ours collide.. and try to find workarounds to solve issues.
And lets find ways we can co-operate in a positive fashion that will benefit us both without a compromise on any national interests.

The idea is not the all rosy picture painted by the media..
The idea is not to drop all suspicions.. the idea is to make them transparent.. but try to find where both can compromise on them and move forward.

What stops us from having an India-China sort of relationship?

There is no need to compromise on border issues. or on defence.

But build trade and economic ties.

And I mean REAL ties. Not the khaadi bhandaar type feel good pieces I see in TOI Aman Ki Aasha everyday about fashion, textiles, etc.

I mean heavy industry ties. Without having to set up plants etc in the begining till things stabilise. Just trading in produce.

Soon extending into replacement of alternative routes and goods from other countries.

The corporate business lobby is extremely strong in India. They have their say in the corridors of power.

Say an Ambani or a Tata or a Bajaj or a Ranbaxy develops a revenue stream to the tune of even a thousand odd crores coming from Pakistan - or vice versa - they would be VERY loathe to losing that and absorbing and replacing that revenue should something happen to distub it.

Equally so the government which generates their own revenue from the same.

That would be a good start.

[roshangjha]

Sorry to be a interrupter but Oscar's ancestry is not debating point here

Yaar, its not about him.

Ask any Pakistani about their ancestor and their answer is that they are either a direct descendent of the prophet (Oscar's case) or that their ancestors were a soldier in Ghauri, Ghazani, etc. etc. army.

They do not like to acknowledge their Hindu ancestry.

[Amolthebest]

What stops us from having an India-China sort of relationship?

That would be a good start.

My personal observation is Pakistani people are not cold blooded and are very emotional. On other hand Indians and Chinese are very business centric and have cold thinking when it comes to money.being emotional is a good thing personally but when it comes to diplomacy it's not that good.My personal opinion. Feel free to disagree.

[somebozo]

Yaar, its not about him.

Ask any Pakistani about their ancestor and their answer is that they are either a direct descendent of the prophet (Oscar's case) or that their ancestors were a soldier in Ghauri, Ghazani, etc. etc. army.

They do not like to acknowledge their Hindu ancestry.

Not really the case, you will see many Chohans, Rao, Chaudhrys, etc in Pakistan who definitely have an Indian acestory, you cant say Hindu ancestry because Hinduism is a religion not a ethnic race.

[Abingdonboy]

By all means, India wants to resolve this dispute and want to see a Pakistan that is the center of moderate islam, at peace with itself and is prosperous. Does India want to give up Kashmir to make it happen -no. Would India consider giving up their right on the P0K - probably but for India to consider that, they need to see Pakistan is serious about controlling the terrorists organizations that were created and are still harbored and financed by the Pakistani state until India sees that, then they have no intent of giving up their right on Kashmir and I mean the undivided Kashmir.

But the resolving the issue of Kashmir or water treaties will not do everything-The problem that Pakistan and its terrorist groups have is not Kashmir, but the existence itself of India-read the manifesto of the LeT. They will not rest until that have restored ALL of India to its Mughal-era dominance of Islam. They do not see partition as the event that deprived them of Kashmir, but as one that marked the end of their hopes and dreams of ever ruling Hindustan again.

[vsdoc]

Sure these are issues which I do not see either side budging on for some time to come.

But we have similar border issues - across a MUCH longer border - with China.

Yet we have good trade with them (can get better, should get better). And talks (and threats, rebuttals, tests, etc.) continue in the background.

Am sure we can have the same with Pakistan.

Lets face it. I am from industry. I see Pakistan as a huge market.

As a businessman, I will look for ways to make that happen.

And if that happens, then over time, the establishment also realises that anything that disturbs that revenue stream, seriously dents their own coffers.

Right now we are ok with keeping them out, and moving on elsewhere.

My point is, we can let them in, without compromising on any of our core issues.

Who has a problem with money?

[Icarus]

I'm sorry but I'll believe it when I see it-Pakistan has made such statements in the past only to go back on its word, often in a horric way aka 26/11. As long as there are terror camps in Pakistan training and indoctrinating young people to hate and kill Indians as well as masterminds of past attacks on India all protected by the government/Army this process can never move forward, these are nice words but actions speak louder.

Since there are no such camps, we can never dismantle them, therefore going by your logic, there can never be peace. Well, that's that folks! The mighty commander of the keyboard warrior regiment has had his say! Man battle stations and engage Caps Lock!

Yaar, its not about him.

Ask any Pakistani about their ancestor and their answer is that they are either a direct descendent of the prophet (Oscar's case) or that their ancestors were a soldier in Ghauri, Ghazani, etc. etc. army.

They do not like to acknowledge their Hindu ancestry.

Oscar is a Syed, that's the Prophet's bloodline. I'm Sethi, Hindu blood. Don't see me denying it. Wont find Jatts, Rajputs, ***** and others denying it either. Just find the right bloodline.

[Oscar]

And who traced this? Can you show any valid proof of this or is it just BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Anyone can say things like this on the internet.

See. I am a direct descendent of Lord Ram. Prove me wrong.

You apparently have no idea of genealogy..
Where do Hindu genes.. scream.. we are hindu, we are hindu.. or Muslim genes doing the same?
Idiotic comment from you where you ignored the rest of the discussion and chose to target a non-issue.
I have Indian genes in me.. these are the genes of the land.. it is as much a part of my ancestry as are genes of those preachers and settlers that came from Arabia.
It is why we were called hindu-Muslims.. Hindu from hIndustan..not the religion.
please try to be constructive.

[Icarus]

Lol, the word filter edited out Bu77!

[Abingdonboy]

Since there are no such camps, we can never dismantle them, therefore going by your logic, there can never be peace. Well, that's that folks! The mighty commander of the keyboard warrior regiment has had his say! Man battle stations and engage Caps Lock!

Okay because you say it it must be true! These boys are spontaneously training, arming and funding (despite being dirt poor) themselves and then sending themselves on suicide runs all by themselves? What actual proof do you have that there are none other than blind nationalism?

I'm sorry to say the evidence is against you:

US embassy cables: Pakistan home to 43 'terrorist camps'

Europeans training in Pakistan terrorist camps - Telegraph

Dismantling of terror camps in Pakistan key to normalising ties, Antony - Times Of India

WikiLeaks Cables For Dec. 10, 2010: Pakistan's Terror Camps, The Vatican And Iran

"More than 100 terror camps" in operation in northwestern Pakistan - The Long War Journal

China Blames Pakistan, Civilians Attacks, Xinjiang Province, Terrorist Camps, Pakistan, Religious Extremists

India | Pakistan | Kashmir

Woodward Book: Pakistan Has 150 Terrorist Camps

Obama owns up to drone strikes against Pakistan's terror camps - News - Evening Standard

Terror Camps Still Operate In Pakistan Tribal Areas: DoJ

Lashkar terror camps still active in Pakistan - India News - IBNLive

India wants terror camps in Pakistan destroyed

http://expressbuzz.com/states/tamiln...ia/302647.html

China blames terror camps in Pak for recent attacks

Terrorist Role of Pakistan

FBI report on Pak terror camps validates India's stand - MAFF NEWS
Global Jihad - 42 TERROR CAMPS IN PAKISTAN STILL OPERATIONAL

from above (^^^)

As many as 42 militant training camps are still operational across the Line of Control (LoC) in ***************** Kashmir, according to intelligence sources, and 250 to 400 militants are always ready at launch pads to sneak into Indian territory.

The FBI found credence to India's claim following the recent arrest of a Pakistan national, Jubair Ahmad, 24, who has legal permanent residency in the United States. Jubair was arrested on charges of providing material support to the Lashkar-e-Toiba by producing and posting LeT propaganda video glorifying violence. Jubair, his father, mother and two younger brothers were given US visas by the State Department on the basis of the fact that his father was related to a US citizen.

Jubair reportedly revealed that the LeT is engaged in imparting commando training to its recruits in terror camps inside Pakistan. The FBI report – which was submitted before a federal US court – went on to state that the recruits, which include teenagers, are also provided religious indoctrination along with commando training in these terror camps.

[Oscar]

Lol, the word filter edited out Bu77!

It does that

On an interesting note.. its weird that some Indians think that the entire Pakistan army is hell bent on war with India.
well, apart from the fact that they have been trained for that task.. it is laudable that there are many who vie for peace.
There is change in mindset reflected in the new breed of officers.. They are prepared for war.. but wish for peace.
That is what should be the focus of any professional military.. yet it is decried.

[JAT BALWAN]

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Any one from the both countries has to take a step ahead seriously.. both countries are fighting a useless fight..

Politicians are the only culprits who cash this situation for decades ... today both countries are matured enough to see the wide way.. Why are we fighting on bloodline & other useless things here? If we are not enough wise to behave like a human then nothing can change us, blood line`ll do nothing to make us survive...