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Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse




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    SENIOR MEMBERS Bang Galore's Avatar

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    Default Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse



    In a defining scene in the satirical war novel Catch-22, the protagonist Yossarian is trying desperately to get the army doctor to certify him insane – so that he can get off combat duty, which is something of an obsession with him.

    But the circular Catch-22 logic of the lunacy of war entraps him. As Yossarian figures it out, “In order to be grounded, I’ve got to be crazy – and I must be crazy to keep flying. But if I ask to be grounded, that means I’m not crazy anymore and, therefore, I have to keep flying.”

    After all, as Doc Daneeka tells him, who else but a crazy man would go out on combat duty – and face the prospect of death?


    Sometimes it appears that Pakistani Generals have internalised one of the thematic strands of Catch-22 in their lives: that the only way to survive an insane system is to be insane oneself. Their conduct of the Kargil war, which concluded exactly 13 years ago today in military and diplomatic triumph for India and utter humiliation for Pakistan, is illustrative of a time in Pakistan when the inmates had taken over the asylum.

    For all the momentary shock and awe induced by Pakistani Generals’ ‘salami slice’ into Kargil, the entire operation was so low on strategic depth that you have to wonder about the minds that conceptualised the plan.

    Pakistani Army soldiers, masquerading as mujahideen warriors, intruded into the Kargil sector, on the Indian side of the Line of Control, line in May 1999. The move caught the Indian military, army and intelligence completely off-guard, and to the extent that the intruders had the capacity to choke India’s supply lines to Siachen, it may have proved costly.

    But Pakistan’s plans – or at least, as much as of it that could be pieced together from developments as they unfolded – don’t point to a cohesive military strategy. Indicatively, the Pakistani intruders were not adequately stocked with rations to occupy the heights for anything more than three or four days.

    And once the Indian counter-assault began, they couldn’t hold out for long. In the end, the Pakistani army even disowned its own soldiers, branding them ‘mujahideen’, leaving them to die in the high Himalayas.

    Pakistan had evidently counted on blackmailing the world using the nuclear ‘Samson option’ – the threat to bring down the whole edifice, exactly a year after the India-Pakistan nuclear tests of 1998 – into extracting concessions on Kashmir that it hadn’t been able to secure in all the decades of supporting the Kashmiri separatist movement and spawning terrorists. It reckoned that it could secure a ceasefire under international pressure on India, it would have carved out another small portion of India, internationalised the Kashmir dispute, and dealt a morale-sapping blow to Indian forces.

    It calculated, again erroneously, that the nuclear deterrence theory that had worked so well at the height of the Cold War would work in its favour. Under this theory, strategists argued that they could perhaps get away with slicing off small pieces of a neighbour’s territory because the adversary would be inhibited from escalating the conflict or provoking a nuclear flashpoint.

    But the Indian armed forces, and its political command, effectively called Pakistan’s bluff – and gave it a bloody nose. At one shot, the Line of Control was revalidated, and Pakistan’s perfidy was exposed before the world. And our troops got a chance to test their war machines and their combat readiness as well.

    In every which way, the Kargil misadventure set Pakistan back so badly that it is unlikely to ever contemplate a repeat of such a low-on-wisdom operation. But then, it doesn’t have to: the way it’s been conducting its anti-India campaigns subsequently, by sponsoring terrorist attacks in Kashmir and in cities across India, has proved far more “cost-effective” for Pakistan, while still giving it deniability, even if it convinces no one.

    If there is one lesson that Pakistan’s Kargil operation, which came soon after Prime Minister AB Vajpayee’s path-breaking visit to Lahore, should have taught India, it is the folly of underestimating the depths of Pakistan’s duplicitous conduct.

    But that’s precisely the mistake that the Manmohan Singh government has made repeatedly, reaching out with the pious baloney of aman ki asha with no demonstrable proof that the toxicity of Pakistan’s anti-India venom has diminished even one bit.

    The recent full-throated diplomatic overdrive on the part of Pakistan to “demilitarise” the Siachen glacier – where India, for all the Catch-22-esque absurdity of maintaining a troop presence in those inhospitable climes – has a strategic advantage – has manifestly found resonance within the Indian political establishment.

    Some of the more recent concessions – among others, the consideration of a plan to allow Pakistani electronic media to beam programmes (and the hateful messages of their panellists) into India and the upcoming cricket tour of India by Pakistan – point to a similar weakness of the heart that borders on reckless lowering of the guard with an unrepentant Pakistan.

    The risk is no longer that Pakistan will wage another Kargil-type misadventure: even the lunatics in their Army will have woken up to the impracticability of such a ‘salami’ operation, and of the certainty of securing a bloody nose from India. But the alternative risk – that Pakistan will leverage the lowering of India’s guard to inflict low-intensity terror damage – is substantially higher.

    We may have reason to celebrate the Kargil victory, but there’s nothing to celebrate in the fact that, as a nation, we’ve learnt none of the lessons from it, and seem hell-bent on placing excessive trust in an unrepentant military state that hasn’t been cured of the lunacy of war.

    Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse | Firstpost

  2. #2
    FULL MEMBERS Nassr's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse

    Please explain as to what is point in posting this troll like post.

    What do you want to prove.

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    PDF VETERAN IceCold's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse

    Another Indian masterpiece.

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    SENIOR MEMBERS OrionHunter's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse

    Ooops! That's gotta hurt our Pakistani friends!

    Let the flame fest begin.....Seconds out of the ring. Box on......

    As for me, I'm outta here!

    Last edited by OrionHunter; 07-26-2012 at 04:53 PM.
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    Banned Members Norboo's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse

    Mush screwed up real bad. His plans went awry right from the start! As is the wont of most planners, they seldom concentrate on logistics in battle which is the most important principle of war. As a result, the PA ran out of ammo and food supplies on day three itself.

    Due to continuous interdiction by the IAF, the supply lines were battered and it was almost impossible to get anything to their forward locations except during darkness. Which of course was extremely difficult due to the treacherous terrain and altitude.

    Even the terrorists who were co-opted as porters during the war, found it extremely difficult to carry supplies for the PA.

    Mush's commando brain probably hadn't been programmed to include logistics.

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    SENIOR MEMBERS illusion8's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Norboo View Post
    Mush screwed up real bad. His plans went awry right from the start! As is the wont of most planners, they seldom concentrate on logistics in battle which is the most important principle of war. As a result, the PA ran out of ammo and food supplies on day three itself.

    Due to continuous interdiction by the IAF, the supply lines were battered and it was almost impossible to get anything to their forward locations except during darkness. Which of course was extremely difficult due to the treacherous terrain and altitude.

    Even the terrorists who were co-opted as porters during the war, found it extremely difficult to carry supplies for the PA.

    Mush's commando brain probably hadn't been programmed to include logistics.
    I think he never predicted India's overwhelming response to the incursion, Kargil was an enormous blunder.
    Last edited by illusion8; 07-26-2012 at 05:04 PM.
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    ELITE MEMBERS karan.1970's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Bang Galore View Post
    For all the momentary shock and awe induced by Pakistani Generals’ ‘salami slice’ into Kargil, the entire operation was so low on strategic depth that you have to wonder about the minds that conceptualised the plan.
    The answer to this rhetorical question is well explained in a paragraph from Layman's Guide to the Siachen problem

    Which leads to current status of Siachen problem where India has all of Siachen and Pakistan has a problem with it.

    Several attempts were made to dislodge the Indian Army, the most ferocious in 1987 by the then Brig. Gen. Pervez Musharraf who had raised a SSG unit in Khaplu for mountain warfare. The attack proved futile and led to a huge loss of life on the Pakistani side and in a subsequent counter-attack Indians captured even more territory. Musharraf subsequently turned his attention to Gilgit and won a major war against the Pakistani Shias in Chitral, killing hundreds. Buoyed by this victory, Musharraf returned for a major assault in 1989 on Siachen but it fared even worse than the 1987 assault. Readers would know that Mushrraf would later go on to become COAS and to complement his bigger rank, distinguish himself by losing in a bigger way in Kargil, but would eventually win in the 1999 war in Islamabad. The Islamabad war consisted of an assault by the forces commanded by General Musharraf on the forces commanded by Ameer-Ul-Momineen Nawaz Sharif. That short war involved precise military maneuvers to capture PTV headquarters, an assault on the airport, capturing all the roads leading to the Parliament and the eventual capture of the Parliament itself, leading to the unconditional surrender of all Senators, MNAs, the Judiciary and the Constitution. Losing against India but winning against Pakistan seems to be Musharraf’s speciality, but I got ahead of myself.
    A Layman's Guide
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    SENIOR MEMBERS salman108's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Norboo View Post
    Mush screwed up real bad. His plans went awry right from the start! As is the wont of most planners, they seldom concentrate on logistics in battle which is the most important principle of war. As a result, the PA ran out of ammo and food supplies on day three itself.

    Due to continuous interdiction by the IAF, the supply lines were battered and it was almost impossible to get anything to their forward locations except during darkness. Which of course was extremely difficult due to the treacherous terrain and altitude.

    Even the terrorists who were co-opted as porters during the war, found it extremely difficult to carry supplies for the PA.

    Mush's commando brain probably hadn't been programmed to include logistics.
    NO !
    Musharraf's plan was too old.
    Had it been executed when it was initially conceived, it would have been a master piece indeed.
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    PTI: CORNERED TIGERS Areesh's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse

    Thread deserves to be deleted. But we are on PDF. The favorite platform of Indian trolls.

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    SENIOR MEMBERS third eye's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse

    Quote Originally Posted by salman108 View Post
    NO !
    Musharraf's plan was too old.
    Had it been executed when it was initially conceived, it would have been a master piece indeed.
    This needs substantiation

    When was it conceived and how different would have been the Indian reaction ?

    Pak Generals are bold without doubt but seem to gloss over the first thing taught to recruits - ' Josh ke sath Hosh nahin khona"
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    JR. THINK TANK sandy_3126's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse

    Quote Originally Posted by salman108 View Post
    NO !
    Musharraf's plan was too old.
    Had it been executed when it was initially conceived, it would have been a master piece indeed.
    Are you implying that COAS was incompetent???
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    PTI: CORNERED TIGERS Areesh's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse

    Quote Originally Posted by karan.1970 View Post
    The answer to this rhetorical question is well explained in a paragraph from Layman's Guide to the Siachen problem



    A Layman's Guide
    A wordpress blog written with typical Indian mindset. Some authentic work you are sharing here Karan. Keep it up.
    Mav3rick and Uchiha thanked this.

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    PROFESSIONALS Joe Shearer's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Areesh View Post
    Thread deserves to be deleted. But we are on PDF. The favorite platform of Indian trolls.
    Not that Pakistani trolls are backward in their attentions.
    fateh71, Hindustani, baajey and 1 others thanked this.

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    SENIOR MEMBERS RazorMC's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Bang Galore View Post
    ... plan to allow Pakistani electronic media to beam programmes (and the hateful messages of their panellists) into India and the upcoming cricket tour of India by Pakistan – point to a similar weakness of the heart that borders on reckless lowering of the guard with an unrepentant Pakistan...
    What is wrong with the writer? Our panelists and media see India as a possible role model for democracy and economic development within Pakistan. Where's the hate?

    What will refusing cricket achieve except self-pleasing moments? This guy needs a rest.
    clmeta thanked this.

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    JR. THINK TANK sandy_3126's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse



    Mechanised infantry needs faster way of reaching borders,

    We have 1/4th of the arty numbers which are needed by thee army

    Airforce sqdn strength needs boosting


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