Water or War

[death]

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well you guys are talking about indain dam but about chinise dam

we are getting less water so what we can do

you guys first ask to china then india

and here few boys are talking about war so easy to say war but have to ever think what will be the result of war

just see around you and if war take place then there will just loss of both country

[jagjitnatt]

The UN has permitted us to build these dams and all these dams are in accordance with the regulations. So saying that India is gonna stop the water flow is just crap. The dams are not storage dams.
If it really is a problem then you must be reminded that even china is building dams and water comes to india from china. You must have the same stance with them as it is with us.

And if still you wanna start 10 threads about the same stupid issue, then just go ahead, start a war, no, a nuclear war and break down the dams and anything you want to.

[Hutchroy]

This issuing is warming up and expected a war, if issue is not resolved. A new census about water shortage has been submitted in which two shocking facts been exposed.
1 . Pakistani Punjab is almost 50% dried. Agriculture land is totally dried.
2. Sotlaj river is now river of sand. Majority of South Punjab region has no water and infant death is increasing day by day.
But India is planning to build another five dams.(Don 't tell its for electric generation ).
And now Indian are building another damn in Konor, Afghanistan, so another water shortage in Kabul river .

Any solution ?

Please refer to the following from the Daily Times of 02-06-2009 :

Second Editorial: Track-2 dialogue with India

One good signal came when our Indus Waters Commissioner Mr Jamaat Ali Shah left for India last week for talks with his counterpart. Reported in Nawa-e-Waqt (May 31, 2009), Indus Waters Treaty Commissioner Jamaat Ali Shah, while leaving for New Delhi to talk about waters shared by India and Pakistan, said that Pakistan was getting its share of waters under the Indus Treaty and that building a dam was the right of India. He said less water in Pakistani rivers was because of lack of rain, not because India had blocked it.

[Jackdaws]

Oh the guy said it must be a RAW-CIA-Mossad agent out to malign the good name of Pakistan.

Your population has increased and our population has increased. We've built over 4000 dams to solve issues - you have built less than 100. Water scarcity is an issue everywhere - from India and Pakistan to Australia and Israel. Our hope is desalination becoming cheaper - that's where nuclear reactors come in by drastically reducing costs.

[HAIDER]

My friend read Indus-Water treaty again and see how India is openly violating this treaty and now Indians are building another miles long tunnel (its approximately 43 miles long) to suck the water from Sindh River and move the flow toward India. Tunnel is passing near Kargil. Remaining rivers will be dried out very soon.

So, Kashmir is flash point...

[KillBill]

My friend read Indus-Water treaty again and see how India is openly violating this treaty and now Indians are building another miles long tunnel (its approximately 43 miles long) to suck the water from Sindh River and move the flow toward India. Tunnel is passing near Kargil. Remaining rivers will be dried out very soon.

So, Kashmir is flash point...

Do you mind, pointing out, how exactly we have broken the treaty?
I would really appreciate that fact. About India 43 miles long tunnel, do you have any links to prove that? I just googled and found nothing

[HAIDER]

Read the treaty , look at water discharge and area covered by barren land. Isn't enough eye opening , Pakistani rivers, which has point of origin in Kashmir are dried.

Unfortunately India is exploiting the situation in the name of terrorism, but these facts are directly linked with people of Pakistan. Avoiding to address these facts will sooner or later haunt down Indian govt.

[KillBill]

Read the treaty , look at water discharge and area covered by barren land. Isn't enough eye opening , Pakistani rivers, which has point of origin in Kashmir are dried.

Unfortunately India is exploiting the situation in the name of terrorism, but these facts are directly linked with people of Pakistan. Avoiding to address these facts will sooner or later haunt down Indian govt.

WoW thanks.

As you have already read the treaty and have understood it completely, do you mind pasting the relevant section here and also point out why you think we have breached it?

rest all

[HAIDER]

In brief for you, so no more **** and bull stories.Need for " to stop denying the ground facts "...well if you haven't read the fact, then its waste of time.

The Indus System of Rivers comprises three Western Rivers the Indus, the Jhelum and Chenab and three Eastern Rivers - the Sutlej, the Beas and the Ravi; and with minor exceptions, the treaty gives India exclusive use of all of the waters of the Eastern Rivers and their tributaries before the point where the rivers enter Pakistan. Similarly, Pakistan has exclusive use of the Western Rivers. Pakistan also received one-time financial compensation for the loss of water from the Eastern rivers.

The countries agree to exchange data and co-operate in matters related to the treaty. For this purpose, treaty creates the Permanent Indus Commission, with a commissioner appointed by each country.

[chantpapipart2]

Stop blaming India for everything. It is not like that this problem has just come out suddenly. Why didn't you prepare yourself and took effective measure. What your govt. is doing to conserve water. By the way you don't have any leverage with India. Water issue is your problem... you handle it.

[su-47]

Stop blaming India for everything. It is not like that this problem has just come out suddenly. Why didn't you prepare yourself and took effective measure. What your govt. is doing to conserve water. By the way you don't have any leverage with India. Water issue is your problem... you handle it.

Its exactly this kind of attitude that will result in a war.

What we need is independent arbitrator, like UN, to negotiate the issue with both nations.

[TechLahore]

Do you mind, pointing out, how exactly we have broken the treaty?
I would really appreciate that fact. About India 43 miles long tunnel, do you have any links to prove that? I just googled and found nothing

This is getting SO old now...

India has violated the IWT by holding back more water than what is allowed. The IWT allows for .01 MAF. India rushed to fill the Baglihar reservoir and held back between .2-.3 MAF in clear contravention of the IWT.

There is no debate or discussion about this. This is a fact.

[chantpapipart2]

Its exactly this kind of attitude that will result in a war.

What we need is independent arbitrator, like UN, to negotiate the issue with both nations.

Bro, war is already on for so many years....the only deference is that, this time Pakistan is feeling the pain.

As far as independent arbitrator is concerned The World Bank is a signatory as a third party. The Indus Waters Treaty is the longest agreement that has been faithfully implemented and India is only taking its rightful share of water.

[HAIDER]

Stop blaming India for everything. It is not like that this problem has just come out suddenly. Why didn't you prepare yourself and took effective measure. What your govt. is doing to conserve water. By the way you don't have any leverage with India. Water issue is your problem... you handle it.

Because India hide everything thing from Pakistan.Living example was Baglihar dam etc. Majority of water diversion projects are executed in secrecy and in rapid pace. For example Indian building the tunnel to divert Sindh river. It was exposed by groups in Kashmir, otherwise project was going in complete secrecy. In short Indians are getting Pakistani water.
Indian suggestion are welcome to build more dam, but respect treaties. And its fact India is doing lots of negative things against Pakistan, in the name of terrorism.
Well if indus water treaty been implemented with good faith then why not Shimla too. If we talk about honesty and good faith then somone one lose the ground.

[TechLahore]

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This issuing is warming up and expected a war, if issue is not resolved. A new census about water shortage has been submitted in which two shocking facts been exposed.
1 . Pakistani Punjab is almost 50% dried. Agriculture land is totally dried.
2. Sotlaj river is now river of sand. Majority of South Punjab region has no water and infant death is increasing day by day.
But India is planning to build another five dams.(Don 't tell its for electric generation ).
And now Indian are building another damn in Kunnor, Afghanistan, so another water shortage in Kabul river .

Any solution ?

India can only violate the IWT for only so long before it becomes something that we will be forced to take very seriously. So far, we've just asked for talks and for arbitration under the terms of the IWT. If the violations continue, then a number of more creative solutions might present themselves. For example, one such solution might involve encouraging the "undoing" of reservoirs in IoK that are violating the IWT. Pakistan's armed forces do not need to be involved directly in such a scenario.

I personally don't think things will get to this point, but since you are worried about this problem, let's continue with the hypothetical scenario. So, the structure(s) get undone and India accuses Pakistan of being responsible and then threatens war. Well, this is no different to India threatening war in any other circumstances. If they actually carry out their threats for a change then there are two further scenarios. First, we have the unlikely scenario of a highly contained, short, and geographically limited conflict that is conducted entirely within disputed territory. In this case, India will not be able to leverage its numerical advantage since Pakistan will concentrate forces in this limited region to negate enemy deployment.

In the second scenario of a wider war across the IB, or in the case the "contained" conflict mushrooms and the theater is expanded, then we will most likely face a situation where the nuclear threshold is crossed. At this point, water will be the least of India and Pakistan's worries.

So in a nutshell, what I am saying is that India fully comprehends the fact that while it can play games with water to a very limited extent, the moment water theft crosses a serious threshold a whole plethora of unintended consequences will unfold. I think there are more than a couple smart strategists sitting in the Indian FO and armed services that will understand this.

When Jamaat Ali Shah confidently says that things will get resolved, you should know where that confidence is coming from.