No need to keep huge army, says Asghar Khan

[Adux]

No need to keep huge army, says Asghar Khan


By By our correspondent

ABBOTTABAD: Rejecting a huge army to ensure peace, former Air Force Chief Air Marshal (retd) Asghar Khan has said that India poses no threat to Pakistan.

"There is a no need to keep a huge army because it is wastage of resources," he said, while speaking at a two-day National Peace Conference organized by Sungi Development Foundation here Tuesday.

Eminent experts, scholars, intellectuals, peace activists and Sungi partners across the country are participating in the conference.

The former air chief suggested that Pakistan should keep a huge territorial reserve force.

He said that he was opposed to war with India in 1965 and as the air chief, was kept in the dark that Pakistan was going to attack India. "We always initiated attacks on India. We also started the Kargil adventure and our soldiers fought on the pretext that they were Kashmiri Mujahideen," he said.


http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=63006

[Invincible]

I must disagree given India's recent spending spree.

True it is a matter of necessity to modernise but also given the strategic threat I think a strong army allows also for some political influence in the sense that we can act from a position of strength.

I do however, agree with the statement highlighted in red.

[niaz]

I respect Air Marshall Asghar Khan immensely. What he says has some merit. During Ayub's time, there was an attempt to to form a people's army based on students on one year's military service after they pass matric exam.

IMO one should not reduce the "minimum deterrence" level; however, a more productive use of the State's resources can be made.

Israel and Swiss Defence forces give you good example. Army and Navy are very specialized services and reduction in their numbers can only be relatively small. However, in case of the Pak Army; what is the harm is reducing the regular service to a small highly professional individuals. Say a core of 150,000 proferssional soldiers, no one less that the rank of a Havaldar ( Seargent ). There should a pool of another 1 million peoples militia, who after a 6-weeks basic training; serve one month every year to keep abrest of profession. In this way a peace time army would be 250,000 ( 150 K regulars + 100 K on monthly rotation). Whereas in case of war the number would swell to 1.2- million as every one would be called up.

I know it is easier said than done, but this can be achieved and could be cost effective.

Keyser.. what do you think?

[Adux]

Sir,

It will take a huge toll on the resources, If you look at the number of 18years old every year, do you the capacity to house them and feed them.

[niaz]

Originally Posted by Adux

Sir,

It will take a huge toll on the resources, If you look at the number of 18 years old every year, do you the capacity to house them and feed them.

I never said take all the 18 year olds. Good god no!! I only said take 100,000 volunters at a time. There is a huge youth unemployment in Pakistan. I am sure one would easily find 100 K volunteers each year who get guaranteed regular income at least until age 30/35 for one months service a year; in addition to whatever else they can earn.

One can trim total number of intake once a reserve of say 1-million has been created by eliminating ones getting physically unfit with time. Besides, I am commenting on AM Asghar Khan has said. I am not advocating that it should be done; I am saying that his opinion has merit and shouldnot be discounted outright.

[dabong1]

I recall a article once what i read where a chinese general was telling the pakistanis that they should have 100'000 professional soldiers and the population trained as a militia to take on india if attacked.
This would have given a sense of having a stake in the country for the population and saved money.
The chinese general was laughed at by the pakistanis as a man who does not really understand war until they found out he was one of the most decorated chinese generals.

[Adux]

Dabong,

Indian Generals regard their pakistani counterparts in far far higher esteem than the Chinese one's. He might have a point, but nothing beats a professional army of 500,000. I think Pakistan does have a good army, and maybe they can cut a few fat here and there.
In china it is easy to get decorated...

[bobloblaw]

I think Adux is right that we can cut out some of our armed forces...
also, we should consider what the Chinese dude said and have militias. We can train them and start factories to make guns or whatever, and slowly, develop our military.
with this, we can have an economy based around the military, which will be good for us and our country

[Adux]

bobloblaw!!!!

Economy based around the military has got Soviet Union going down the drain, so was China until they changed.

Training Pakistani people is ok, but giving them all guns would result in a lot more LAL-masjids and likes. I will never suggest Pak -Populace with guns,...

[dabong1]

Originally Posted by Adux

Dabong,

Indian Generals regard their pakistani counterparts in far far higher esteem than the Chinese one's. He might have a point, but nothing beats a professional army of 500,000. I think Pakistan does have a good army, and maybe they can cut a few fat here and there.
In china it is easy to get decorated...

The professional army of 500,000 has defended pakistan against india but the population trained along village militia lines could have done the same job.
The same army though has failed in two area's kashmir and defeating india totally.
So i go go back to my main point off having a 100'000 very well trained soilders and saving pakistan billions.
What is the point of having a nuclear bomb if you can not cut back on the army and reinvest in the people.
I can not see pakistan invading any of its neighbours or them invading pakistan,so whats the point of such a big army?
Why does pakistan have to project military power when it has said it is not intrested in being an asian military power.
To defend pakistan at the present moment i think it does not need such a big army,waste of money.

[Adux]

Imagine a scenario, just for the sake it, India gets stealth planes or they new F/A-18 Super Hornet, uses a daring plan like the Israeli's and take out all of Pakistani Nuclear sites simulataneously. Which will be followed by a Land invasion. How will 100,000 defend the borders especially when the enemy has numerical and technological superiority. I can suggest a fat reduction of 75,000.. Maybe 400,000 or 425,000.

Training a volatile Pakistani population who has no qualms going against their neighbours or the government is stupid and giving them guns is even more stupider. In the land of coup's, that means giving the political parties, a private army bigger than the army itself. Civilians only think about Army and Pakistan when India attacks, what happens when there is no threat of Indian Attacks. These people will be used by the Political parties, easily

[niaz]

Originally Posted by Adux

Imagine a scenario, just for the sake it, India gets stealth planes or they new F/A-18 Super Hornet, uses a daring plan like the Israeli's and take out all of Pakistani Nuclear sites simulataneously. Which will be followed by a Land invasion. How will 100,000 defend the borders especially when the enemy has numerical and technological superiority. I can suggest a fat reduction of 75,000.. Maybe 400,000 or 425,000.

Training a volatile Pakistani population who has no qualms going against their neighbours or the government is stupid and giving them guns is even more stupider. In the land of coup's, that means giving the political parties, a private army bigger than the army itself. Civilians only think about Army and Pakistan when India attacks, what happens when there is no threat of Indian Attacks. These people will be used by the Political parties, easily

IMO youths who have done military traing would be far more disciplined than those who have passed the matric and have no jobs. Additionally, before you take in a recruit, he goes thru a medical. It means that general level of health will increase and and even those rejected will know what is wrong with them and thus can get treatment.

Finally, it wont be only 100,000 men Army. It would be at least 200,000 as there would always be 100 K reservists serving their time. Additionally, with a lot of trained reservists, Army would swell to 1-million within a couple of days.

There would be no more guns than today, as no would be allowed to carry their arms to their home. All arms will be deopsited in the company armory once the stint in army is completed.

My only worry is that these partly trained youth would be "Cannon fodder" and these days of high tech wars, how will they fare against an all 'professional' army. I would therefore like to know what Hon Keyseroze thinks about such a scheme.

[Invincible]

6 weeks training was about what they had for civilians during world war 2.

I have a copy of richard Bennets fighting forces which analyses armies of the world.
Regarding Pakistan it says that a sizeable reserve has been created that can give parity or even short term superiority in a conflict with India.

Should we go for such a move of creating militias it seems as though a good foundation is already in place and lets face it a Pakistani reservist is probably better trained than the likes of say Saddam Fedayeen formerly of Iraq and could put up a good fight.

[Adux]

Sir,

A one year trained is no match in the modern scenario. They will be facing a 1 million well trained troops of the other side. I dont think Pakistan is a situation to change its recuriting system. Pakistan does have some good troops, is know for always "punching above its weight" You will loose that advantage.

Sorry for generalizing, But Pakistani population is a very volatile one, and one year of military training is not going to change their psyche. Heck when the COAS doing coup's, what makes you think the civilian population with military training would be any different

[dabong1]

Originally Posted by Adux

Imagine a scenario, just for the sake it, India gets stealth planes or they new F/A-18 Super Hornet, uses a daring plan like the Israeli's and take out all of Pakistani Nuclear sites simulataneously. Which will be followed by a Land invasion. How will 100,000 defend the borders especially when the enemy has numerical and technological superiority. I can suggest a fat reduction of 75,000.. Maybe 400,000 or 425,000.

Lets say your plan works and india invade,Pakistan should get out of this world war two thinking and fight on the model hezbollah used against israel.
Or use israel as the model a small well trained army and a large reserve force.
Before the nukes yes pakistan needed a large army but now its just wasting money and using 20th century warfare techniques ,tanks and large formation that can get taken out easily.
Once the kashmir issue is fudged over the pakistan army will have to cut back ,no choice how are they going to sell to the public that they need weapons to defeat india.

Originally Posted by Adux

Training a volatile Pakistani population who has no qualms going against their neighbours or the government is stupid and giving them guns is even more stupider. In the land of coup's, that means giving the political parties, a private army bigger than the army itself. Civilians only think about Army and Pakistan when India attacks, what happens when there is no threat of Indian Attacks. These people will be used by the Political parties, easily

There must be millions with military/mujahdeen training in pakistan,theres never been no trouble from them like being used by Political parties.
The govt/army would not need to give out guns as the population is armed to the teeth thanks to the afghan war.
The people have never used by the political parties but by the military.