Pakistan Defence
Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 67
Thanks Tree136Thanks

Kemalism is dead, but not Ataturk




  1. #1
    SENIOR MEMBERS kobiraaz's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Classified
    Posts
    7,861
    Thanked
    9542 times
    Users Country Flag: Bangladesh Users Location Flag: Palestinian Territory

    Default Kemalism is dead, but not Ataturk



    By Soner Cagaptay - Special to CNN
    Has Turkey’s twentieth century experience with Kemalism — a Europe-oriented top-down Westernization model — come to an end? To a large extent: Yes. Symbolically speaking, nothing could portend the coming end of Kemalism better than the recent public exoneration of Iskilipli Atif Hoca, a rare resistance figure to Kemalism in the early twentieth century. However, even if Kemalism might be withering away, ironically its founder Ataturk and his way of doing business seem to be alive in Turkey. But first the story of Iskilipli Atif Hoca: In November 1925, Ataturk carried out perhaps the most symbolic of his reforms, banning all Turkish males from wearing the Ottoman fez in order to cement his country’s commitment to European ideals. Ataturk wanted make Turks European head to toe and the abolition of the fez embodied this effort. Most Turks acquiesced to Ataturk’s reforms, not just to the “hat reform” but also to deeper ones such as the “alphabet reform,” which changed the Turks’ script from an Arab alphabet- based one to its current Latin-based form, further connecting the Turks to European culture. Ataturk was able to achieve these reforms with minor resistance thanks to the weight of his persona. After all, Ataturk — who had just liberated Turkey from a massive Allied occupation — was considered nothing short of a father to all Turks. Some Turks, however, objected to his reforms. Enter Atif Hoca, a cleric in the small central Anatolian town of Iskilip, who refused to adhere to Ataturk’s “hat reform.” Atif Hoca defended his use of the fez, couching his objections in Islam. He rallied to protest against the reforms and began publishing essays in local papers. He was executed in February 1926, becoming a rare icon of resistance to Kemalism. Recently though, Atif Hoca’s legacy has been reversed in the public eye. In February 2012, the government decided to name a public hospital in Iskilip — Atif Hoca’s hometown — after him. This dedication carries remarkable symbolic significance, as it is tantamount to honoring one of the best known anti-Kemalists to date, as well as signaling Turkey’s move to a post-Kemalist era. Kemalism appears to have lost its influence, not just symbolically but also politically. In the past decade, Turkey has undergone a complete transformation. The ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) has won three consecutive elections since 2002, with increasing majorities. The AKP, representing a brand of Islam- based social conservatism, has since replaced Turkey’s former Kemalist ideology and secular elites. Turkey seems to be moving to a post-Kemalist era. Though, this is not to suggest that Ataturk is out, too. On the contrary, Ataturk shapes the Turkish mindset in the post-Kemalist Turkey. The legacy of Turkey’s liberator is too powerful to resist even if Turkey is seemingly “moving on” from his ideology. Perhaps the most powerful aspect of Ataturk’s legacy is that he wanted to restore Turkey’s great power status. To this end, Ataturk envisaged stripping Turkey of its Ottoman legacy and instilling in it a set of European standards and beliefs so that Turkey could successfully compete against its historic European rivals. In other words, Turkey could become more powerful than Europe only by becoming entirely European itself. Turkey’s new elites have a different view of how to make the country powerful, not by abandoning the country’s Ottoman past or secularizing its religious values, but by embracing them. Though, the ultimate goal remains the same: Become powerful enough to compete against the Europeans. Even if the post-Kemalist Turkey is not going to emulate Europe, it will still treat it as a measuring stick. A second aspect of Ataturk’s legacy that remains alive in post-Kemalist Turkey is top-down social engineering. In the same way that Ataturk wanted to shape modern Turkey in his own image, his successors will now want to do the same, imposing their own worldview on Turkish society. In this regard, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is a case-in- point. Like Ataturk, Erdogan seems willing to use the weight of his personality to remake Turkish society to match his worldview. Erdogan has already ruled Turkey longer than any other democratically-elected prime minister, and he might replace Ataturk as the country’s longest-reigning leader if he is elected as the president of Turkey in 2014. Like Ataturk, Erdogan seems willing to use his personal charisma to remake Turkish society to match his vision. Ataturk often said “he wanted to raise contemporary European generations” among Turks. Recently, Erdogan said “he would like to raise religious generations” among the Turks. Kemalism may be dead, but Ataturk’s way of doing business appears to be alive and kicking in Turkey. The views expressed in this article are solely those of Soner Cagaptay.
    Kemalism is dead, but not Ataturk – Global Public Square - CNN.com Blogs
    BordoEnes, Selim I and IbnAlwaled thanked this.

  2. #2
    Banned Members Ottoman-Turk's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Brother Land
    Posts
    2,156
    Thanked
    1259 times
    Users Country Flag: Turkey Users Location Flag: Azerbaijan

    Default Re: Kemalism is dead, but not Ataturk

    I dnt even care about kemalism or anything just like Ataturk , i hate people go extreme on stupid things , every turk should love their country , respect ataturk and have their own views thats how i see it
    p4kistan, BronzePlaque, damm1t and 2 others thanked this.

  3. #3
    FULL MEMBERS Vatoz's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    İn my bed
    Posts
    220
    Thanked
    223 times
    Users Country Flag: Europe Users Location Flag: Sweden

    Default Re: Kemalism is dead, but not Ataturk

    Of topic: Fez is actually from Greek origin. But ottoman made it famouse.

    The important thing is what you have in your head and not what you have on it.

  4. #4
    SENIOR MEMBERS kobiraaz's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Classified
    Posts
    7,861
    Thanked
    9542 times
    Users Country Flag: Bangladesh Users Location Flag: Palestinian Territory

    Default Re: Kemalism is dead, but not Ataturk

    Quote Originally Posted by Ottoman-Turk View Post
    I dnt even care about kemalism or anything just like Ataturk , i hate people go extreme on stupid things , every turk should love their country , respect ataturk and have their own views thats how i see it
    I know very little about Turkey! But this story of Atif Hoca is surprising! Some days ago someone told me story of ADNAN MANDERES.... ! Seems like this Kemalism is one type of extremism!

  5. #5
    SENIOR MEMBERS King Solomon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Private
    Posts
    3,037
    Thanked
    3950 times
    Users Country Flag: Europe Users Location Flag: Europe

    Default Re: Kemalism is dead, but not Ataturk

    Kemal Ataturk was a great leader. Every islamic country needs someone like him now.
    AUSTERLITZ, BronzePlaque, Abii and 6 others thanked this.

  6. #6
    FULL MEMBERS TrMhMt's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    1,222
    Thanked
    1383 times
    Users Country Flag: Turkey Users Location Flag: Thailand

    Default Re: Kemalism is dead, but not Ataturk

    Quote Originally Posted by Vatoz View Post
    Of topic: Fez is actually from Greek origin.
    As far as i know it is from Morocco.
    Cem_ and MeteHAN thanked this.

  7. #7
    FULL MEMBERS ovarel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    istanbul
    Posts
    916
    Thanked
    507 times
    Users Country Flag: Turkey Users Location Flag: Turkey

    Default Re: Kemalism is dead, but not Ataturk

    Quote Originally Posted by Vatoz View Post
    Of topic: Fez is actually from Greek origin. But ottoman made it famouse.

    The important thing is what you have in your head and not what you have on it.
    Its Moroccan.

    He who said it is Greek is a liar.

  8. #8
    FULL MEMBERS Quasar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Turkiye
    Posts
    1,615
    Thanked
    3418 times
    Users Country Flag: Turkey Users Location Flag: Turkey

    Default Re: Kemalism is dead, but not Ataturk

    Quote Originally Posted by S-19 View Post
    Kemal Ataturk was a great leader. Every islamic country needs someone like him now.


    a very strange moment! for the first time you wrote something meaningful and I agree with you!!!

  9. #9
    FULL MEMBERS Ir.Tab.'s Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Inverse Universe!
    Posts
    1,013
    Thanked
    2251 times
    Users Country Flag: Iran Users Location Flag: Turkey

    Default Re: Kemalism is dead, but not Ataturk

    Without doubt from an international point of view Ataturk is a symbol of secularism in turkey but Turks will love him as their motherland saver for ever. And in my opinion Davotoghlu tried to prove there is no conflict between secular government and religious nation. Apparently he has not failed.

  10. #10
    SENIOR MEMBERS Luffy 500's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Raftel
    Posts
    3,152
    Thanked
    4119 times
    Users Country Flag: Bangladesh Users Location Flag: Bangladesh

    Default Re: Kemalism is dead, but not Ataturk

    Quote Originally Posted by S-19 View Post
    Kemal Ataturk was a great leader. Every islamic country needs someone like him now.
    Says the guy, who considers Ahmedis as muslims. What do you know?

    Quote Originally Posted by kobiraaz View Post
    I know very little about Turkey! But this story of Atif Hoca is surprising! Some days ago someone told me story of ADNAN MANDERES.... ! Seems like this Kemalism is one type of extremism!
    If ADNAN MANDERES was successful Turkey would have been out of Kelamist clutches long time
    ago. They didn't even spared the guy even after pleas from US pres. JF kennedy. That's how
    bigoted those kelamist were. Did the kelamist ever won a free and fair election. Erdogan and
    ADNAN MANDERES were both democratically elected. But this is just my personal opinion, being
    an outsider I don't want
    to offend any Kelamist turks here. I consider turks brothers.
    Selim I, Rusty, DRaisinHerald and 1 others thanked this.

  11. #11
    SENIOR MEMBERS King Solomon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Private
    Posts
    3,037
    Thanked
    3950 times
    Users Country Flag: Europe Users Location Flag: Europe

    Default Re: Kemalism is dead, but not Ataturk

    Quote Originally Posted by Luffy 500 View Post
    Says the guy, who considers Ahmedis as muslims. What do you know?
    To each his own. I admire Ataturk because he laid the foundations for industrialization in Turkey and completely uprooted religious extremists like you. I know you are sad because your likes can't carry out wahabi suicide bombing in Turkey, but nevertheless you should appreciate a peaceful and stable Turkey.
    BronzePlaque, Abii, PteX and 1 others thanked this.

  12. #12
    FULL MEMBERS Alienoz_TR's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Istanbul
    Posts
    1,624
    Thanked
    1388 times
    Users Country Flag: Turkey Users Location Flag: Turkey

    Default Re: Kemalism is dead, but not Ataturk

    Quote Originally Posted by ovarel View Post
    Its Moroccan.

    He who said it is Greek is a liar.
    You are also extremist. The one must not necessarily be liar, if he doesnt know a thing correctly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Luffy 500 View Post
    If ADNAN MANDERES was successful Turkey would have been out of Kelamist clutches long time
    to offend any Kelamist turks here. I consider turks brothers.
    You give nothing good but provoking old wounds. In polite way, i advise you to be careful in Turkey's politics.
    Last edited by Alienoz_TR; 05-06-2012 at 06:14 PM.
    King Solomon and Cem_ thanked this.

  13. #13
    FULL MEMBERS Vatoz's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    İn my bed
    Posts
    220
    Thanked
    223 times
    Users Country Flag: Europe Users Location Flag: Sweden

    Default Re: Kemalism is dead, but not Ataturk

    Quote Originally Posted by ovarel View Post
    Its Moroccan.

    He who said it is Greek is a liar.

    The Fez is a red felt hat in the shape of a truncated cone; a black tassel hangs from the crown.

    Traditionally the fez gets its distinctive red hue from a dye collected from the bright red berries of the Turkish kizilcik.

    The Fez cap originated in Ancient Greece. and was subsequently worn by the Medieval Byzantine Greeks.

    The Ottoman Turks adopted the Fez from the Greeks during their conquest of Byzantine Anatolia.
    While the fez was a colorful and picturesque item adopted as part of a military uniform of many armies throughout Europe and Africa* it was in many ways an impractical headdress. If worn without a drab cover it made the head a target for enemy fire, and it provided little protection from the sun. As a result it was increasingly relegated to parade or off-duty wear by World War II.

    The name is maroccan origin from the city of fes.

  14. #14
    FULL MEMBERS ovarel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    istanbul
    Posts
    916
    Thanked
    507 times
    Users Country Flag: Turkey Users Location Flag: Turkey

    Default Re: Kemalism is dead, but not Ataturk

    @alienoz
    Im talking about a particular person but you obvioulsy didnt get it. If a man teaches all the nation something full of lies then he is a liar.

    And Luffy 500 is entitled to his opinion,who are you to shut his mouth up? This is an international forum,people has a right to express their views. If you think Luffy500 is wrong then you should explain him rationally why he is wrong,if you can. You cant silence people just because you dont like their opinion.

    And one word to Luffy: Dont be afraid of offending kemalists,you are sharing your views. If they dont like it then they should respond in a civilized way. If they dont,its not your problem.

    @vatoz

    Fez is from Morocco,it gets its name from the third largest city of Morocco. Its a known fact go do some research instead of insisting on your false knowledge.
    Zulkarneyn and Luffy 500 thanked this.

  15. #15
    FULL MEMBERS BordoEnes's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    1,852
    Thanked
    2287 times
    Users Country Flag: Turkey Users Location Flag: Netherlands

    Default Re: Kemalism is dead, but not Ataturk



    I hope Kemalisme stays death, Personnaly i honor Ataturk but his ideology sickens me. It was a pest for decades and look at current Turkey when we didnt live by it, We became a major Regional Power with an outstanding Economie.


Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. ATATURK'S ASSETS
    By forummurat in forum Turkey Defence
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 02-13-2012, 06:32 PM
  2. Ataturk speech translation
    By Myth_buster_1 in forum General Images & Multimedia
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-01-2012, 06:01 PM
  3. Ataturk and the Republic of Turkey.
    By Jigs in forum Turkey Defence
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-25-2010, 09:40 AM
  4. Pak-Turkey Joint Exercise ATATURK-V
    By HAIDER in forum Military Photos & Multimedia
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-23-2008, 01:26 PM
  5. Ataturkism or Kemalism
    By AlpErTunga in forum Strategic & Geopolitical Issues
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 08-25-2007, 07:08 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •