Pakistan Defence
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 26
Thanks Tree36Thanks

We are sleepwalking into the Drone Age, unaware of the consequences




  1. #1
    MEMBER fd24's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,967
    Thanked
    10227 times

    Default We are sleepwalking into the Drone Age, unaware of the consequences



    Last October I was at a jirga in Islamabad where 80 people from Waziristan had assembled to talk about the US Predator drones that buzz around overhead, periodically delivering death by Hellfire missile. A jirga is the traditional forum for discussing and resolving disputes, part parliament, part court of law. The turbaned tribal elders were joined by their young sons on a rare foray out of their region to meet outsiders and discuss the killing. The isolation of the Waziris is almost total – no western journalist has been to Miranshah for several years.

    At our meeting I spoke as the representative westerner. I reported the CIA claim that not one single innocent civilian had been killed in over a year. I did not need to understand Pashtu to translate the snorts of derision when this claim was translated.

    During the day I shook the hand of a 16-year-old kid from Waziristan named Tariq Aziz. One of his cousins had died in a missile strike, and he wanted to know what he could do to bring the truth to the west. At the Reprieve charity, we have a transparency project: importing cameras to the region to try to export the truth back out. Tariq wanted to take part, but I thought him too young.

    Then, three days later, the CIA announced that it had eliminated "four militants". In truth there were only two victims: Tariq had been driving his 12-year-old cousin to their aunt's house when the Hellfire missile killed them both. This came just 24 hours after the CIA boasted of eliminating six other "militants" – actually, four chromite workers driving home from work. In both cases a local informant apparently tagged the car with a GPS monitor and lied to earn his fee.


    Last week officials in the Obama administration talked to the New York Times about the "Secret Kill List" drawn up for drone assassinations. Democratic strategists in an election year calculate that the article will prove a vote-winner, dispelling any notion that Barack Obama is soft on terror. The administration voices wanted to leave the impression of an involved and committed president who reads Thomas Aquinas's theory of the "just war" in between personally vetting the kill list.

    Mitt Romney dubbed Obama "Dr Strangelove" back in 2007. It may have been a rare, perceptive insight. A decision by the smartest man in the room is only as good as the information that he receives, and no matter how accurate the shiny new missile, if it's aimed at the wrong person it will hit the wrong target.

    It is easy to understand how the CIA slaughtered Tariq and many other innocent victims. Those who press the Hellfire buttons are 8,000 miles away in Nevada and are dependent on local "intelligence". Just as with Guantánamo Bay, the CIA is paying bounties to those who will identify "terrorists". Five thousand dollars is an enormous sum for a Waziri informant, translating to perhaps £250,000 in London terms. The informant has a calculation to make: is it safer to place a GPS tag on the car of a truly dangerous terrorist, or to call down death on a Nobody (with the beginnings of a beard), reporting that he is a militant? Too many "militants" are just young men with stubble. At least 174 have been children.

    The New York Times reports that Obama first embraced a policy of taking no prisoners in order to avoid the embarrassing sore of Guantánamo. Then he accepted a method for assessing casualties that "counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants" unless there is explicit posthumous proof of their innocence – because they are probably "up to no good".

    While Obama's policies may go down a treat in the US, they are fomenting radicalism abroad, the very policy not only undermining our way of life but provoking an extremist hydra with many more heads.

    Some sane voices penetrate the gloom. Starting last summer, Cameron Munter, Obama's ambassador to Islamabad, was required to give a thumbs up or down assessment of each drone attack on Pakistani turf, as if he were an emperor in the Colosseum. "He didn't realise his main job was to kill people," said a colleague. Munter is quitting his job early this month because his diplomatic mission has been rendered impossible.

    The dearth of US domestic criticism is astounding. The last time a president indulged in an illegal bombing campaign in the sovereign territory of allies (Richard Nixon in 1969, in Cambodia and Laos), the policy nearly got included in the articles of impeachment. We should remember that history, as the Vietnamese capitalised on the backlash, helping to impose the genocidal Khmer Rouge on Cambodia, and a single-party regime that endures 40 years later in Laos.

    Ultimately, Mitt Romney faces a dilemma: what must a Republican candidate do to outflank the extremism of his Democratic opponent? The rest of us must be concerned as well: we are sleepwalking into the Drone Age, and few people are debating the dire consequences.

    Clive Stafford Smith is director of the charity Reprieve, which has a project intended to provoke debate on drones.


    We are sleepwalking into the Drone Age, unaware of the consequences | Clive Stafford Smith | Comment is free | The Observer

    Indeed many people seem to be having lapse in memory when they forget the involvement of the US – the role they played in promoting Islamic fundamentalists across the Middle East and beyond as a weapon against communists or more regularly 'nationalists'. The CIA actively supported Islamic fanatics most famously in Afghanistan (Who created Bin Laden as a CIA asset?) but it's often forgotten they did likewise in the proxy war in Yemen (supporting Saudi backed Islamists against Nasser backed secularists) and in Somalia during the eighties (against General Aideed) as well as against Sukarno in Indonesia and the list goes on and on – when will their misdemeanours be brought to account?
    You can sing the merits of the drones from the highest mountain using the biggest mouth – but the unintended consequence of you actions are set down in history and the world won’t forget…


  2. #2
    Banned Members PERSIAN GOD KING's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    under pouring Rain
    Posts
    4,392
    Thanked
    5031 times
    Users Country Flag: Iran Users Location Flag: England

    Default Re: We are sleepwalking into the Drone Age, unaware of the consequences

    May you and your brother and all other drone victims Rest in Peace :(
    we need to keep this thread alive to show our respect for that brave Boy and those who were killed.

    death to the terrorists piece of craps called Americans.
    don't worry Pakistan, one day we will get our revenge.
    these terrorists also killed innocent Iranians too.

    Can we make this a sticky thread?
    we need to show those murdering terrorists that we will not simply forget about the victims.
    Last edited by PERSIAN GOD KING; 06-03-2012 at 08:31 PM.
    lem34, King Solomon, fd24 and 1 others thanked this.

  3. #3
    ELITE MEMBERS indianrabbit's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,702
    Thanked
    3655 times
    Users Country Flag: India Users Location Flag: United States

    Default Re: We are sleepwalking into the Drone Age, unaware of the consequences

    Again drone attacks might have its negative influences but by not acting on militants in NW, Pakistan is not helping the case either.
    They both go hand in hand.
    twilight and King Solomon thanked this.

  4. #4
    SENIOR MEMBERS longbrained's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Pakistan
    Posts
    3,414
    Thanked
    6825 times
    Users Country Flag: Europe Users Location Flag: Pakistan

    Default Re: We are sleepwalking into the Drone Age, unaware of the consequences

    As it was "leaked" this week in New York Times, President Bush upon leaving white house had two advice for Obama which he delivered them to him directly and begged him to consider them. One was to keep attacking Iran by cyber warfare, and this was the main theme of the news piece. But the forgotten and never discussed other advice in the same news piece was to keep attacking Pakistan by drones. As it can be seen, US whether democrats or republicans see us as enemies.

    The issue is very complicated now. Specially with our politicians having become completely impotent. But one thing is clear, whether we start doing something about it today or later, we should not let this issue die. Innocent people have died needlessly. We must develop technologies to bring down the drones. We must also take legal actions, for example announcing that each drone terror victim should get a million dollar as compensation. We must make this issue international so that every one knows about it. Our media has been very weak to put a human face on this tragedy. But our core issue is none of those. It is the corruption that has paralyzed us beyond belief. Every one is kicking us and there is no response because of this paralysis. It is really shameful.
    Haseebullah, twilight, lem34 and 3 others thanked this.

  5. #5
    FULL MEMBERS AHMED85's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    NEEDY PLACE.....
    Posts
    1,252
    Thanked
    330 times
    Users Country Flag: Pakistan Users Location Flag: Pakistan

    Default Re: We are sleepwalking into the Drone Age, unaware of the consequences

    May be some one does not make remind about Agreement of Drone policy when it will expired.....



    The Hindu : News / International : In secret deal, ISI allows U.S. drone war to resume
    Last edited by AHMED85; 06-03-2012 at 08:33 PM.
    rubyjackass and twilight thanked this.

  6. #6
    ELITE MEMBERS Windjammer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    12,330
    Thanked
    19104 times
    Users Country Flag: Pakistan Users Location Flag: UK

    Default Re: We are sleepwalking into the Drone Age, unaware of the consequences

    So in essence, the informants for incentives are tagging wrong vehicles and fooling US, the trigger happy Americans killing innocent civilians creating more hater for themselves not to mention forcing more to turn to militancy, where as the real terrorists or targets remain untouched to continue their activities against the NATO. No prizes for guessing who is loosing in the end not to mention creating more mess for Afghanistan......American policy at it's best. !!!
    fd24 thanked this.

  7. #7
    FULL MEMBERS twilight's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Kouzestan
    Posts
    904
    Thanked
    1501 times
    Users Country Flag: Iran Users Location Flag: Iran

    Default Re: We are sleepwalking into the Drone Age, unaware of the consequences

    I think Pakistan should blame their politicans , Army and ISI more than Yankees ... after all this is old story that who have power killing who hasn't it with some useless excuse ....
    .......

    Sigh ... this is really a shame that Yankees come from thousands kilometer away and killing innocent people in then name of freedom !!! ( The world become so awful , criminal kills innocent people under the name of " freedom " , " justice " , "democracy" and etc... )

    .....
    well , the only thing that I can say is :

    انا لله و انا الیه الراجعون .....


    ...............
    Last edited by twilight; 06-03-2012 at 09:42 PM.
    rubyjackass, vsdoc, humanfirst and 2 others thanked this.

  8. #8
    SENIOR MEMBERS JanjaWeed's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    2,949
    Thanked
    3779 times
    Users Country Flag: India Users Location Flag: UK

    Default Re: We are sleepwalking into the Drone Age, unaware of the consequences

    US is acting stone deaf while pakistan is walking towards drone age. When leaders come out with pathetic excuses like ''US is not listening to us'', it says a lot about the standing of the country.
    nick_indian thanked this.

  9. #9
    MODERATOR nuclearpak's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Planet Earth
    Posts
    11,401
    Thanked
    8896 times
    Users Country Flag: Pakistan Users Location Flag: Pakistan

    Default Re: We are sleepwalking into the Drone Age, unaware of the consequences

    Absolute fcuking disgrace. And Obama gets the Nobel peace prize.
    rubyjackass, Stealth, fd24 and 1 others thanked this.

  10. #10
    SENIOR MEMBERS Mav3rick's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Karachi
    Posts
    2,268
    Thanked
    1153 times
    Users Country Flag: Australia Users Location Flag: Pakistan

    Default Re: We are sleepwalking into the Drone Age, unaware of the consequences

    Quote Originally Posted by indianrabbit View Post
    Again drone attacks might have its negative influences but by not acting on militants in NW, Pakistan is not helping the case either.
    They both go hand in hand.
    I have noticed that words do not really penetrate the thick skulls that some of you are cursed with and it really makes me feel like ***** slapping you back to the thinking process, if that is possible. Because your comments are the same as somebody claiming that all Indians are terrorists.
    fd24 and PERSIAN GOD KING thanked this.

  11. #11
    Think Tank: Chairman Icarus's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Islamabad
    Posts
    4,829
    Thanked
    6602 times
    Users Country Flag: Pakistan Users Location Flag: Pakistan

    Default Re: We are sleepwalking into the Drone Age, unaware of the consequences

    Although a very accurate and safe method of targeting terrorists out of range and deep within enemy territory, the CIA-ISI split coupled with America's '**** them Off' policy off using the drones within Pakistani territory to increase diplomatic pressure on the GoP has proven to be a dangerous combination. The statistics for collateral damage have sky rocketed and America seems to be least interested. Without local informants, the CIA has had to rely on the Afghan diaspora on both sides of the border, the Afghans in NWA are running a profitable business by tagging random vehicles, however they choose to minimize the risk of being caught by going nowhere near the miscreant's vehicles or hide outs, rather they tag random people as miscreants, have them killed and waltz back to their source for more GPS tags and their bounty. It's about time that America realize that they cannot hope to achieve any of their objectives through their policy of naked aggression, on the contrary, they are inciting locals to evoke the Pukhtoonwali clause of 'Badal' which means Vendetta. Basically, once evoked, it become compulsory for all tribe and sub-clan members on both sides of the Durand Line to kill members of the clan seen as aggressors.

    Quote Originally Posted by twilight View Post
    I think Pakistan should blame their politicans , Army and ISI more than Yankees ... after all this is old story that who have power killing who hasn't it with some useless excuse ....
    All drone attacks are concentrated in NWA where the Army has next to no power, thanks to a rickety 'Peace Accord' with local militants.
    Solomon2, 53fd and fd24 thanked this.

  12. #12
    SENIOR MEMBERS King Solomon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Private
    Posts
    3,037
    Thanked
    3948 times
    Users Country Flag: Europe Users Location Flag: Europe

    Default Re: We are sleepwalking into the Drone Age, unaware of the consequences

    I think more transparency should be ensured in drone strikes. Rather than unilateral strikes, US could cooperate with Pakistan. Get intel from pakistani officials and target those terrorists via drone attacks.

    At present, we do not know if these drone attacks are killing terrorists or innocent civilians. There were many reports of innocents being killed, so, we cannot support these drones.

    The problem is, Pakistan had signed a treaty allowing these drone attacks back in Musharaf time I think (this is why Pakistan cannot approach UN either). Musharaf was not incompetent and made sure US did not cross the line. However, this government is completely subservient and is willing to bend over completely to please US. This is not a healthy attitude. US got the opportunity and is taking full advantage of it.

    I hope a firm, strong and committed government gains power in pakistan.

  13. #13
    SENIOR MEMBERS nick_indian's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Delhi, India
    Posts
    4,807
    Thanked
    5083 times
    Users Country Flag: India Users Location Flag: India

    Default Re: We are sleepwalking into the Drone Age, unaware of the consequences

    why does Pakistan not shoot some down ? Iran did

  14. #14
    SENIOR MEMBERS rubyjackass's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    chennai
    Posts
    2,536
    Thanked
    1064 times
    Users Country Flag: India Users Location Flag: India

    Default Re: We are sleepwalking into the Drone Age, unaware of the consequences

    Quote Originally Posted by AHMED85 View Post
    May be some one does not make remind about Agreement of Drone policy when it will expired.....



    The Hindu : News / International : In secret deal, ISI allows U.S. drone war to resume
    Thanks for the link man. First time seeing the article.

  15. #15
    Banned Members Perceptron's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Urbs Prima in Indis
    Posts
    839
    Thanked
    702 times
    Users Country Flag: India Users Location Flag: India

    Default Re: We are sleepwalking into the Drone Age, unaware of the consequences



    What Pakistan has been reaping in the form of drones is the WhirlWind when they sowed as the wind in the form of the Taliban. The drones are absolutely justifiable when the writ of the state is absent and the foreign terrorists under the Al Qaeda banner are allowed to congregate and attack the ISAF troops. PA must establish its writ on FATA and only then will the drone-therapy cease. The "Good Taliban" including the Haqqanis, the Nazir group, the Baradar group must be shoved out of Pakistan into Afghanistan where they can go for a reconciliation with the current Afghani government or else must face the business end of ISAF.


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Dhaka unaware as Delhi gives go-ahead to Tipaimukh dam
    By MBI Munshi in forum Bangladesh Defence
    Replies: 71
    Last Post: 07-20-2011, 01:13 PM
  2. China says it is unaware of Gwadar port proposal
    By Lankan Ranger in forum Economy & Development
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-24-2011, 11:32 PM
  3. Our politicians unaware of market prices
    By Mirzay in forum Economy & Development
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-10-2010, 06:15 AM
  4. Dire Consequences of Drone Strikes
    By MarkTheTruth in forum World Affairs
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 02-22-2010, 08:50 PM
  5. Pakistan unaware of martial challenges from India
    By Al-zakir in forum Strategic & Geopolitical Issues
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-14-2009, 09:41 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •