Brazil to provide 100 missiles to Pakistan

[IceCold]

Originally Posted by Muradk

We tested them back in JAN and then decided to go for it. Remember this deal is a tuff one there is a lot of pressure on BR GOV not to deal with us. So it might or might not go through keep your fingers crossed.

It will be an utter disappointment and a failure of our foreign policy and indeed shameful for Pakistan if India wins in getting this deal cancelled.

[AMX]

TIKUNA

I do not see the Pakistan buying the MAN-1. In this in case that they can opt to Chinese missiles, American and European. (mainly the RBS-15F)

It will be an to utter disappointment and failure of our foreign policy and indeed shameful will be Pakistan if India wins in getting this deal cancelled.

The Ambassador of India asked for information to the Brazilian chancellery, but I do not see this as a threat to this agreement.

We are honored and we always fulfill our contracts in the area of defense with technology transfer and Off Sets. The only possibility this agreement was cancelled is the Pakistani Government to give up the purchase.

____________

Now saying a little on the MAR-1 and the interest/purchase of the Pakistan on this weapon.

The reach of the official MAR-1 never was disclosed, but we know for some information that had leaked that it exceeds 25Km very that they appear in some websites.

During the campaign of homologation of the MAR-1 in 2007 a missile was gone off the 10000 feet made right it a target 80Km.

The interest of the Pakistan on this weapon is old (when still he was being developed) and the purchase agreement was closed in April of 2008 when official of the Air Force of the Pakistan they had come to Brazil and they had folloied the launching of 2 missiles.

I wait that this is the first one of some agreements of defense between Brazil and Paquist

[asaad-ul-islam]

Originally Posted by AMX

The Ambassador of India asked for information to the Brazilian chancellery, but I do not see this as a threat to this agreement.

We are honored and we always fulfill our contracts in the area of defense with technology transfer and Off Sets. The only possibility this agreement was cancelled is the Pakistani Government to give up the purchase.

Yes, Brazil is a reliable partner for Pakistan. Usman Shabbir, from PakDef, has already given us the news of the transfer of technology agreement. Already on the first transactions between Brazil and Pakistan, there is technology transfer!

I hope Pakistan can enter a new strategic alliance with Brazil and South Africa. We've already cooperated with South Africa in glide-bombs, missiles, and electronics. I know for a fact Brazil and South Africa have some sort of cooperation in the defense sector, maybe even for the T-darter. This is a good move on Pakistan's part into making inroads into South America, and what may be the re-birth of Brazil's long lost defense industry.

[Kharian_Beast]

I knew transfer of tech was involved, otherwise the deal would have been for a lot more missiles.

[AgNoStIc MuSliM]

Well, ToT or not, as Murad Sahib said, lets keep our fingers crossed and hope Uncle Sam doesn't get up to his usual shenanigans.

I don't necessarily see the Indians as unilaterally derailing this deal, but if the US enters the picture, all bets are off.

[Kharian_Beast]

I don't think that will happen that's just imo.

[fatman17]

AMERICAS, THE

Date Posted: 04-Dec-2008

Jane's Defence Weekly

Brazil approves funding for MAR-1 missile sale to Pakistan

Pedro Paulo Rezende JDW Correspondent - Brasilia

The Brazilian government has approved funding for the sale of 100 Mectron MAR-1 air-to-ground anti-radiation missiles to Pakistan.

Funding for the EUR85 million (USD107.4 million) contract was approved on 2 December by Brazil's foreign trade board.

According to the Brazilian Minister of Defence Nelson Jobim, this approval was all that was left to fulfil the contract signed between Mectron and the Pakistan Air Force in April. He added that with this contract, Mectron will increase its monthly production capacity from one missile per month to five.

The MAR-1, which began development in 1998, is similar to the US-developed AGM-88 HARM and has a passive radar guidance system with a multiband option to attack land- and sea-based defensive systems.

When launched from low altitude, the MAR-1 climbs to 10,000 ft and scans the target area before diving. The engine has two stages, giving the missile a 25 km range when launched from its maximum altitude of 33,000 ft. It can reach a speed of Mach 0.5 to Mach 1.2 and uses eight pre-programmed modes of attack using previous points of reference.

© 2008 Jane's Information Group

[Tikuna]

Frankly, I do not believe that will occur transfer of
technology (Seeker and control system).

Greetings

[fatman17]

He added that with this contract, Mectron will increase its monthly production capacity from one missile per month to five.

its only a sale no ToT (or mention of it)

[asaad-ul-islam]

There is ToT involved, probably no mention of it. Usman Shabbir is a reliable source, Janes, DefenseNews, AFM, etc all get info from him. how much of a transfer is not known, most likely it's the seeker Pakistan wants.

[AgNoStIc MuSliM]

Originally Posted by asaad-ul-islam

There is ToT involved, probably no mention of it. Usman Shabbir is a reliable source, Janes, DefenseNews, AFM, etc all get info from him. how much of a transfer is not known, most likely it's the seeker Pakistan wants.

Since the project was a relatively secret one, I don't think they will transfer critical technology like the seeker. Pakistan may be able to license manufacture these in house after the first hundred (or even part of the initial order), with critical components like the seeker still being imported.

[AMX]

I do not know accurately what it will be transferred, but this value is very high for only 100 missiles.

[asaad-ul-islam]

Originally Posted by AgNoStIc MuSliM

Since the project was a relatively secret one, I don't think they will transfer critical technology like the seeker. Pakistan may be able to license manufacture these in house after the first hundred (or even part of the initial order), with critical components like the seeker still being imported.

earlier, I rejected ToT as part of the deal due to the secrecy of the project. However, Usman Shabbir is a more reliable source of information than Janes or anything else people read.

Although this is a secret Brazilian project, one of national interest, they don't have a choice in the matter. there are many things you have to take into account.

• Brazil is selling these missiles to Pakistan, although projects such as these contain vital technology, and usually are not sold to other nations.
  
• Normally, Brazil would have only sold a few years after the success of the project.
  
• An export version of the product is more likely to be sold, instead of the original.
  
• Production costs are high, even for the Brazilians. They need to lower the costs, as discussed in the articles above, to be able to afford their own acquistions. Keep in mind, Brazil has a very low defense budget. They must sell a lot of these missiles.
  
• Pakistan WILL not purchase anything unless some sort of tecnology transfer is involved. The only exceptions I can think of are MBDA, SAAB, and any American Defense contractor. Even France gives some technology transfer, it's the norm today.

[Tikuna]

I was talking to a person who accompanied the sale to Pakistan and it ensures that there will be no Tot. He says it is only a sale with support. This guy is a trusted source.

[Mark Sien]

Originally Posted by Tikuna

I was talking to a person who accompanied the sale to Pakistan and it ensures that there will be no Tot. He says it is only a sale with support. This guy is a trusted source.

PakDef's seniors - i.e. Usman Shabbir, pshamim, H Khan, etc, are the men who accompany Pakistani defence planners and high officials...they stand by their earlier comments about Pak Army getting Saab BAMSE, yet no Saab official or any Western analyst will admit or even know. In fact, I remember the huge noise some German people made when Usman, pshamim, etc, said Pakistan will get U214 submarines back in 2005-2006.