And as expected, you are factually wrong that I or anyone else made such claims.
You are hallucinating and high on some stuff.
Last edited by Aramsogo; 01-01-2012 at 03:05 PM.
And it is an impotent hate.
I know. You can't comprehend freedom of expression.This is a thread about the ethnic Chinese diaspora. Is that you?? It's me. So why are you here? What have you to contribute?
BTW, I agree that many hardworking and industrious among the Chin diaspora have made it good.
Then there are some lunies that shout about "ivy league" on anonymous forums.
Yes, of course. Your petty little mind is incapable of looking at the reality.We already know about the thousands of imaginary Indian CEOs in your head.
Last edited by cloud_9; 01-01-2012 at 04:25 PM. Reason: Whoops! Getting too hot in here
Did I shout? Hardly. It's in Context.
Wealthy Indonesians send their children to private schools in the US starting in high school.
In the US, I have met them in college as most return to run their family business after a short career with an investment bank.
They consider themselves Chinese and all have a Chinese name. What info did you contribute? Troll.
And look up the percentage ethnic Chinese at the Ivy League schools. You would be surprised.
Yes, this is open source info. There are so many Chinese in so many East Asian countries who are doing well.They consider themselves Chinese and all have a Chinese name. What info did you contribute? Troll.
This is not exactly a state secret, is it?
May be in your world, it is.
Unlike you, I don't think of any race as inferior or incapable of achievments.And look up the percentage ethnic Chinese at the Ivy League schools. You would be surprised.
I know Chinese are doing very well in education in the states. I have personally seen it. I have been educated in India but visited some of the top ivy league colleges with my American friends. I saw people of so many countries and Chinese had their fair share.
In fact Indians and Chinese account for a disproportionate share in the ivy league colleges compared to their population share.
Some Asians' college strategy: Don't check boxLanya Olmstead was born in Florida to a mother who immigrated from Taiwan and an American father of Norwegian ancestry. Ethnically, she considers herself half Taiwanese and half Norwegian. But when applying to Harvard, Olmstead checked only one box for her race: white.
"I didn't want to put 'Asian' down," Olmstead says, "because my mom told me there's discrimination against Asians in the application process."
For years, many Asian-Americans have been convinced that it's harder for them to gain admission to the nation's top colleges.
Studies show that Asian-Americans meet these colleges' admissions standards far out of proportion to their 6 percent representation in the U.S. population, and that they often need test scores hundreds of points higher than applicants from other ethnic groups to have an equal chance of admission. Critics say these numbers, along with the fact that some top colleges with race-blind admissions have double the Asian percentage of Ivy League schools, prove the existence of discrimination.
The way it works, the critics believe, is that Asian-Americans are evaluated not as individuals, but against the thousands of other ultra-achieving Asians who are stereotyped as boring academic robots.
Now, an unknown number of students are responding to this concern by declining to identify themselves as Asian on their applications.
For those with only one Asian parent, whose names don't give away their heritage, that decision can be relatively easy. Harder are the questions that it raises: What's behind the admissions difficulties? What, exactly, is an Asian-American — and is being one a choice?
Olmstead is a freshman at Harvard and a member of HAPA, the Half-Asian People's Association. In high school she had a perfect 4.0 grade-point average and scored 2150 out of a possible 2400 on the SAT, which she calls "pretty low."
College applications ask for parent information, so Olmstead knows that admissions officers could figure out a student's background that way. She did write in the word "multiracial" on her own application.
Still, she would advise students with one Asian parent to "check whatever race is not Asian."
"Not to really generalize, but a lot of Asians, they have perfect SATs, perfect GPAs, … so it's hard to let them all in," Olmstead says.
Amalia Halikias is a Yale freshman whose mother was born in America to Chinese immigrants; her father is a Greek immigrant. She also checked only the "white" box on her application.
"As someone who was applying with relatively strong scores, I didn't want to be grouped into that stereotype," Halikias says. "I didn't want to be written off as one of the 1.4 billion Asians that were applying."
Her mother was "extremely encouraging" of that decision, Halikias says, even though she places a high value on preserving their Chinese heritage.
"Asian-American is more a scale or a gradient than a discrete combination. I think it's a choice," Halikias says.
But leaving the Asian box blank felt wrong to Jodi Balfe, a Harvard freshman who was born in Korea and came here at age 3 with her Korean mother and white American father. She checked the box against the advice of her high school guidance counselor, teachers and friends.
"I felt very uncomfortable with the idea of trying to hide half of my ethnic background," Balfe says. "It's been a major influence on how I developed as a person. It felt like selling out, like selling too much of my soul."
"I thought admission wouldn't be worth it. It would be like only half of me was accepted."
Other students, however, feel no conflict between a strong Asian identity and their response to what they believe is injustice.
"If you know you're going to be discriminated against, it's absolutely justifiable to not check the Asian box," says Halikias.
Immigration from Asian countries was heavily restricted until laws were changed in 1965. When the gates finally opened, many Asian arrivals were well-educated, endured hardships to secure more opportunities for their families, and were determined to seize the American dream through effort and education.
These immigrants, and their descendants, often demanded that children work as hard as humanly possible to achieve. Parental respect is paramount in Asian culture, so many children have obeyed — and excelled.
"Chinese parents can order their kids to get straight As. Western parents can only ask their kids to try their best," wrote Amy Chua, only half tongue-in-cheek, in her recent best-selling book "Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother."
"Chinese parents can say, 'You're lazy. All your classmates are getting ahead of you,'" Chua wrote. "By contrast, Western parents have to struggle with their own conflicted feelings about achievement, and try to persuade themselves that they're not disappointed about how their kids turned out."
Of course, not all Asian-Americans fit this stereotype. They are not always obedient hard workers who get top marks. Some embrace American rather than Asian culture. Their economic status, ancestral countries and customs vary, and their forebears may have been rich or poor.
But compared with American society in general, Asian-Americans have developed a much stronger emphasis on intense academic preparation as a path to a handful of the very best schools.
"The whole Tiger Mom stereotype is grounded in truth," says Tao Tao Holmes, a Yale sophomore with a Chinese-born mother and white American father. She did not check "Asian" on her application.
"My math scores aren't high enough for the Asian box," she says. "I say it jokingly, but there is the underlying sentiment of, if I had emphasized myself as Asian, I would have (been expected to) excel more in stereotypically Asian-dominated subjects."
"I was definitely held to a different standard (by my mom), and to different standards than my friends," Holmes says. She sees the same rigorous academic focus among many other students with immigrant parents, even non-Asian ones.
Does Holmes think children of American parents are generally spoiled and lazy by comparison? "That's essentially what I'm trying to say."
Asian students have higher average SAT scores than any other group, including whites. A study by Princeton sociologist Thomas Espenshade examined applicants to top colleges from 1997, when the maximum SAT score was 1600 (today it's 2400). Espenshade found that Asian-Americans needed a 1550 SAT to have an equal chance of getting into an elite college as white students with a 1410 or black students with an 1100.
Top schools that don't ask about race in admissions process have very high percentages of Asian students. The California Institute of Technology, a private school that chooses not to consider race, is about one-third Asian. (Thirteen percent of California residents have Asian heritage.) The University of California-Berkeley, which is forbidden by state law to consider race in admissions, is more than 40 percent Asian — up from about 20 percent before the law was passed.
Steven Hsu, a physics professor at the University of Oregon and a vocal critic of current admissions policies, says there is a clear statistical case that discrimination exists.
"The actual dynamics of how it happens are really quite subtle," he says, mentioning factors like horse-trading among admissions officers for their favorite candidates.
Also, "when Asians are the largest group on campus, I can easily imagine a fund-raiser saying, 'This is jarring to our alumni,'" Hsu says. Noting that most Ivy League schools have roughly the same percentage of Asians, he wonders if "that's the maximum number where diversity is still good, and it's not, 'we're being overwhelmed by the yellow horde.'"
Yale, Harvard, Princeton and the University of Pennsylvania declined to make admissions officers available for interviews for this story.
Kara Miller helped review applications for Yale as an admissions office reader, and participated in meetings where admissions decisions were made. She says it often felt like Asians were held to a higher standard.
"Asian kids know that when you look at the average SAT for the school, they need to add 50 or 100 to it. If you're Asian, that's what you'll need to get in," says Miller, now an English professor at the University of Massachusetts-Dartmouth.
Highly selective colleges do use much more than SAT scores and grades to evaluate applicants. Other important factors include extracurricular activities, community service, leadership, maturity, engagement in learning, and overcoming adversity.
Admissions preferences are sometimes given to the children of alumni, the wealthy and celebrities, which is an overwhelmingly white group. Recruited athletes get breaks. Since the top colleges say diversity is crucial to a world-class education, African-Americans, Latinos, Native Americans, and Hawaiian/Pacific Islanders also may get in despite lower scores than other applicants.
A college like Yale "could fill their entire freshman class twice over with qualified Asian students or white students or valedictorians," says Rosita Fernandez-Rojo, a former college admissions officer who is now director of college counseling at Rye Country Day School outside of New York City.
But applicants are not ranked by results of a qualifications test, she says — "it's a selection process."
"People are always looking for reasons they didn't get in," she continues. "You can't always know what those reasons are. Sometimes during the admissions process they say, 'There's nothing wrong with that kid. We just don't have room.'"
In the end, elite colleges often don't have room for Asian students with outstanding scores and grades.
That's one reason why Harvard freshman Heather Pickerell, born in Hong Kong to a Taiwanese mother and American father, refused to check any race box on her application.
"I figured it might help my chances of getting in," she says. "But I figured if Harvard wouldn't take me for refusing to list my ethnicity, then maybe I shouldn't go there."
She considers drawing lines between different ethnic groups a form of racism — and says her ethnic identity depends on where she is.
"In America, I identify more as Asian, having grown up there, and actually being Asian, and having grown up in an Asian family," she says. "But when I'm back in Hong Kong I feel more American, because everyone there is more Asian than I am."
Holmes, the Yale sophomore with the Chinese-born mother, also has problems fitting herself into the Asian box — "it doesn't make sense to me."
"I feel like an American," she says, "…an Asian person who grew up in America."
Susanna Koetter, a Yale junior with an American father and Korean mother, was adamant about identifying her Asian side on her application. Yet she calls herself "not fully Asian-American. I'm mixed Asian-American. When I go to Korea, I'm like, blatantly white."
And yet, asked whether she would have considered leaving the Asian box blank, she says: "That would be messed up. I'm not white."
"Identity is very malleable," says Jasmine Zhuang, a Yale junior whose parents were both born in Taiwan.
She didn't check the box, even though her last name is a giveaway and her essay was about Asian-American identity.
"Looking back I don't agree with what I did," Zhuang says. "It was more like a symbolic action for me, to rebel against the higher standard placed on Asian-American applicants."
"There's no way someone's race can automatically tell you something about them, or represent who they are to an admissions committee," Zhuang says. "Using race by itself is extremely dangerous."
Hsu, the physics professor, says that if the current admissions policies continue, it will become more common for Asian students to avoid identifying themselves as such, and schools will have to react.
"They'll have to decide: A half-Asian kid, what is that? I don't think they really know."
The lines are already blurred at Yale, where almost 26,000 students applied for the current freshman class, according to the school's web site.
About 1,300 students were admitted. Twenty percent of them marked the Asian-American box on their applications; 15 percent of freshmen marked two or more ethnicities.
Ten percent of Yale's freshmen class did not check a single box.
Now, I obviously don't agree with discriminating against Asians or any race. But you can see the point of their top colleges wanting a fair share of Americans in the colleges as well.
A difficult decision both ways.
What lesson did you learn from that experience? I hope it is something to do with being humble rather than name dropping to prove your elitism (or dumbness). You never know who you meet. Anyways, May be I should have dropped my own H-bomb to put you in your place at the get go. But see I learned that getting an elite education is a privilege and not some tool to brag around.
I’m going to ignore all the trolling and put down my piece for the sensible members. I’m not sure where the IQ conversation came up because my Grandfather made it good in Singapore he certainly was not come high IQ person with PHDS, it was just hard work and dedication that got the family to where we are.
The success of the Overseas Chinese is mainly due to the cohesion of the Chinese society in general and plus majority worked hard to bring their families over, Many of the overseas Chinese came to Singapore as coolies and slowly they established themselves in various areas of business.
Most of the migrants in SEA came from the Fujian province which was somewhat neglected during the Cultural Revolution and the people there suffered more than their fair share of hardship, this was also due to their closeness with Taiwan at the time and the people in the area being more prosperous then most.
Coming from the same province also helped a lot with the economic prosperity of the Chinese, firstly they establish the Chinatown which majority of the overseas Chinese will congregate, at the times this was also good for news of what was happening in China to be fed back to the Overseas Chinese and enhance communal ties of the Chinese who were in foreign lands. Typically the migrants who had the same surname would form a clan to establish trust between clan members where business can be conducted. Usually there would also be a Chinese Chamber of Commerce established in the various countries which promote business ties among themselves.
The Indonesian Chinese massacre was politically motivated, I would caution any member to refrain from using this as an example of Chinese hatred because they do not know the dynamics of Indonesia. If an Indian community was the target it would very easily shift to them, the local population because of the inefficient government are mired in poverty and are easily influenced and the politicians usually do this to gain their votes. Their current targets are Christians. Below is an example of Indians getting targeted in Batam over a simple misunderstanding.
In this region the migrants are always the target and there was a time were Chinese and Indians banded up against the locals to protect themselves. Chinese are the majority in this region and we do what we can to help ourselves and yes other immigrants including Indians as well, it’s a tough area to survive in if you got no friends.
Riot Sweeps Batam Dry Dock | The Jakarta Globe
There aren't as many indians as you think. It's been a while, but I don't remember 1:1 between Indians and Chinese.
I'm looking up stats and most don't break it up by country. Brown does break it down.
Admitted students hail from all 50 states. The states with the largest numbers of accepted students are: California (393), New York (322), Massachusetts (216), New Jersey (141), and Texas (101). International students were admitted from 79 countries. The nations with the largest number of admitted students were from China (57), India (34), United Kingdom (33), Korea (30), and Canada (28).
Cornell doesn't mention India:
The admitted students come from all 50 states, Washington D.C., Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands. The highest number of students in the U.S. hail from New York, California and New Jersey. International students come from 69 countries with the majority of international students from China, Korea, and Canada.
Last edited by Aramsogo; 01-01-2012 at 04:20 PM.
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