R&D neglected in Muslim countries

[Loki]

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And any Tom, Dick and Harry that relies on Wikipedia only proves that he is a Tom, Dick and Harry.

Eh?

It is still not. Why? Because it is mostly incomplete. If you know how to read tables, go to the right most column. Most entries are empty because of lack of information.

They are there as they are

And yes, so called World Bank is an infidel organization. How come you did not know it? Do you know who Paul Wolfowitz was? How come he became WB's president? How come every president (by a tacit rule) of WB and IMF have been a US and some European citizen for the last six decades? How come both of them are based in the den of Western evil? How come all employees from entry level to above are either Western citizens, Western educated (mostly in USA) and MUST BE highly familiar with Western norms, customs, culture and practise?

Wrong.
http://alljobsbd.blogspot.com/2009/1...angladesh.html

True, their presidents are always Westerners, but that is their standard.

If I were on my trolling mode, I'd say you'd better stop believing everything the mullahs tell you

But besides the Western world being infidel, your list is incomplete. An infidel country like France has no entry on the rightmost column (for the period 2007-2011). Does it mean France invested nothing or an insignificant % on R&D during that period? Use your brain instead of searching Western ""official" sites for info all the time. Not every bit of information can be found in English, or on the Internet.

As I said, there are there as they are Now people won't be making up numbers now would they? All sources must be credible as per their criteria

Research output is increasing in the Muslim world.

The SCImago Journal & Country Rank is a portal that includes the journals and country scientific indicators developed from the information contained in the Scopus® database (Elsevier B.V.). These indicators can be used to assess and analyze scientific domains.

1996 research paper output by country included only 3 Muslim countries in top 50:

26 - Turkey
37 - Egypt
42 - Saudi Arabia

The number had increased to 7 in 2010:

18 - Turkey
19 - Iran
28 - Malaysia
41 - Egypt
43 - Pakistan
46 - Saudi Arabia
50 - Tunisia

Links:
SJR - International Science Ranking

SJR - International Science Ranking

This will hopefully get better now that nations in Arabian have started to take serious interest in R&D.

Journals?

[kalu_miah]

Why are we wasting time on hate-obsessed detractors who don't understand history or the basics of the scientific process? To claim that Islam is incompatible with science is to deliberately ignore history and empirical facts. Muslims played an indispensable part in the history of science -- modern physics, chemistry and mathematics would not be possible without Muslim contributions.

However, the other reality that we also accept is that R&D is woefully under-subscribed in current Muslim countries. There is no point denying it and taking refuge in the past.

There is a rejection of Western cultural imperialism and some Muslims mistakenly believe that science and technology are Western concepts. Hence they reject them (and modernity) outright. That mindset needs to change radically if Muslim societies ever hope to climb out of the current morass.

Its because we have to expose arrogant people with limited intelligence for what they are. Just because they have won this round, in the past few centuries, they think the future belongs to them. It obviously does not.

But in order to transform the world order we need knowledge of geopolitics, it is the key.

R&D needs budget and qualified people. Budget cannot be had if we cannot compete in world stage and qualified people cannot be had, if we cannot have good schools and universities. Only way to increase competitiveness is to focus on geopolitics and create systems that are competitive and not vulnerable to outside influence.

[Developereo]

Its because we have to expose arrogant people with limited intelligence for what they are. Just because they have won this round, in the past few centuries, they think the future belongs to them. It obviously does not.

Let them think what they want. Since you also live in the West, you know that most ordinary Westerners are fair-minded once you show them the facts. The bloviating cowboys on internet forums tend to be the exact same sort of people who are racists in real life: low self-esteem losers who get no respect in real life and beat their chests on internet forums, hiding behind the American flag, as if they individually had anything to do with America's success.

But in order to transform the world order we need knowledge of geopolitics, it is the key.

R&D needs budget and qualified people. Budget cannot be had if we cannot compete in world stage and qualified people cannot be had, if we cannot have good schools and universities. Only way to increase competitiveness is to focus on geopolitics and create systems that are competitive and not vulnerable to outside influence.

Well, you know we disagree on that.

You don't fight an 800 pound gorilla at his strongest points; you regroup and build up your strength in a context where you have more control over the situation (i.e. domestic capability) before engaging the establishment.

[kalu_miah]

Let them think what they want. Since you also live in the West, you know that most ordinary Westerners are fair-minded once you show them the facts. The bloviating cowboys on internet forums tend to be the exact same sort of people who are racists in real life: low self-esteem losers who get no respect in real life and beat their chests on internet forums, hiding behind the American flag, as if they individually had anything to do with America's success.

Well, you know we disagree on that.

You don't fight an 800 pound gorilla at his strongest points; you regroup and build up your strength in a context where you have more control over the situation (i.e. domestic capability) before engaging the establishment.

Pretty much agree with what you are saying. There is more sensible people in the West than anywhere else put together, because they have had high HDI for some time, because of early industrialization and removal of poverty and high level of education. But some part of the West specially the US has been hijacked by 1% elite using corporate media dominance, who manufacture consent and skew reality at will, to fit their short term goals, with disastrous results for the rest of the world. Geopolitics used by some so called experts in the powerful countries in the past has also resulted in much misfortune for the rest of the world, while the public remained in the dark.

About relative importance of geopolitics and internal reorganization and consolidation, I would say that both are important and should be focused on simultaneously. Without understanding of geopolitics, there cannot be a national direction, understood in simple terms by the masses and without internal reorganization of domestic polity such as organizing of civil society and democratization, one cannot move forward towards the path set by geopolitics.

[Vinod2070]

Its because we have to expose arrogant people with limited intelligence for what they are. Just because they have won this round, in the past few centuries, they think the future belongs to them. It obviously does not.

But in order to transform the world order we need knowledge of geopolitics, it is the key.

R&D needs budget and qualified people. Budget cannot be had if we cannot compete in world stage and qualified people cannot be had, if we cannot have good schools and universities. Only way to increase competitiveness is to focus on geopolitics and create systems that are competitive and not vulnerable to outside influence.

And how to do that?

Becoming a part of a "renewed imperial Japanese empire" as a minion!

BTW, try going easy on claims of your supposed "superior intelligence". I can only tell you (and the fellow think tank) that there is no physical evidence supporting your claims.

[Developereo]

But some part of the West specially the US has been hijacked by 1% elite using corporate media dominance, who manufacture consent and skew reality at will, to fit their short term goals

Although elitist, the fact is that, in any population throughout history, a tiny minority usually accounts for the accomplishments and direction of the group. The challenge is to keep the doors to that elite society open to all based on merit rather than kinship. The evolutionary role of the vast majority is to serve as a gene pool from which talent can percolate up.

About relative importance of geopolitics and internal reorganization and consolidation, I would say that both are important and should be focused on simultaneously.

I wasn't talking of relative importance but level of control. It's hard for a small, developing country to exert much control on international geopolitics, but it has a much better chance to control its domestic situation. Certainly, external factors will intrude, but the society can build up defences and tactics to handle such external threats.

[The SC]

1. The nobel organization is globally renowned, and is considered the ultimate prestige. You cannot smear an organizations credibility due to your inability to win awards according to the set criteria.

- Note Jews have a lot of winners in the sciences. Jews also are overrepresented in the top institutions in the states. The pattern is consistent. You can contact the Nobel organization to ask questions via another Jewish creation "google".

Iran may be doing well according to its regional average in the scienes. But let me ask you, who were the scientists who came up with the equations that Iran is using? Not Iranians themselves.

One look at patents per capita will show Iran is nowhere near the top. Look at the recently published scientific papers. Again Iran is not at the top.

I'm sorry, Iranians as much as I admire them have a habit of exaggerating their achievements.



As they say history is written by the victors.

But the truth is more powerful and brings everything to light.
And you call losers victors, you forgot how they desperately seeked a way out of the Iraqi quagmire and were forced to live.

[somebozo]

Just a releative image i want to share..dassalt systemes produces one of the most advanced 3D solutions for engineerng and simulation. The have presence even in tiny Israel but a much larger middle eastern economy is completely out of their radar..there has to be a reason for that and it is called....tech backwardness of muslim dominated countries because we belive more in clergy than using technology to solve our problem..For the muslim world to progress..it is very important to put control on clergy..

[The SC]

There is another form of R&D that we have forgotten to Wright about and that is the informal R&D taking place in peoples garages.

What is the percentage of these contributions is anyone's guess, but it must be a huge one, just by counting the number of the patents delivered to individuals, not to count the restrictions for getting the patents, be it financial or lack of access to a patent lawyer.


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Just a releative image i want to share..dassalt systemes produces one of the most advanced 3D solutions for engineerng and simulation. The have presence even in tiny Israel but a much larger middle eastern economy is completely out of their radar..there has to be a reason for that and it is called....tech backwardness of muslim dominated countries because we belive more in clergy than using technology to solve our problem..For the muslim world to progress..it is very important to put control on clergy..

Marcel Dassault, the founder, changed his Jewish name "Marcel Bloch" born Darius Paul Bloch to a French one, so now you know why.

[apo_mEaTgRiNdEr]

There is another form of R&D that we have forgotten to Wright about and that is the informal R&D taking place in peoplesgarages.

What is the percentage of these contributions is anyone's guess, but it must be a huge one, just by counting the number of the patents delivered to individuals, not to count the restrictions for getting the patents, be it financial or lack of access to a patent lawyer.

I'm out of words now.

[Burger Boy]

Since this thread is about Muslim R&D, then what's the point of posting a study which excludes Muslim countries?

Maybe this is the problem; scientific advancement has no religion. Not now, and not even during the so-called "Islamic Golden Age". Only once we under stand that can there be any progress.

[Vinod2070]

I'm out of words now.

You are not alone.

[Audio]

I'm out of words now.

But can you Wright when out of words?

There is another form of R&D that we have forgotten to Wright about and that is the informal R&D taking place in peoples garages.

I know taking pot shots at someone grammar is considered a get out mechanism in debating when you have no arguments, i just thought it was funny as the guy writes about knowledge and science and some ancient shit and how grande everything is and then makes such a basic mistake.
And on such a level he cannot even claim it's a typo. He just isn't educated enough to know that "Wright" is written "write".
So funny...also the garage scientist theory is baseless. Modern R&D takes resources on the scales of governments and corporations.
Equivalent of that today would most likely be in a form of a group of students working in an university lab....and that is also either government funded or corporation funded through grants/sponsorships.
I think this is the cheapest way to go about doing science on a budget.

[veer bhogya vasundhara]

so by your logic that follow blindly is judeo-christian concept and not islamic you can go against teaching of quran and accept the scientific concept which quran opposes like evolution

U nailed it man

[veer bhogya vasundhara]

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And Hindus belive that the earth lies on the back of a turtle.
See can can pull $itt out of my @ss too
The problem with this kind of discussion on an open forum is that people know don't know Islamic values or teaching will still want say something. Like if what they say has any value on this topic. Case and point, this guy.

As for the topic. It is simple really. To have R&D you need leadership and a functioning society. When Europe colorized our lands the first thing they did was destroy our leadership and social institutions. You could say a social nuclear bomb was dropped on us. And only now are we recovering. But everyone has their own pace and some are quicker then others.

HA HA HA BUT HINDUS DO NOT TAKE ALL THE THINGS SERIOUSLY....... AND NO HINDU SCRIPTURE IS THE FINAL WORD OF GOD FOR US..... WE KEEP EVOLVING.... ACTUALLY THIS TURTLE STORY IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ONE.... WE HAVE MANY MYTHS.... BUT WE NOT BELIEVE DAT ALL THE MYTHS ARE TRUE..... WILL TELL U IN DETAIL SOME OTHER DAY....