Barbaric Gujrat Massacre - The Truth Behind The Story

[Gazzi]

Originally Posted by Reactive Armour

Common guys. No need to discuss this on a pakistani forum.

Today's gujarat is india's most prosperous state and even muslims are happier there.

Just think whom are we discussing indias internal problems, with pakistanis. I think they need to learn to wipe their a**s first before advising us on anything.

When hundreds of sikhs were thrown out by taliban, what did the pakistan government do, play 'WAR-WAR" with taliban and fool the entire world.

We have enough national forums to discuss our own issues.

Our judicial system, inspite of its weaknesses, is far far superior to mulla-dominated barbaric farcical judiciary if any in pakistan.

Let Pakistan first become secular by constitution before we discuss anything about secularism with them.

eeeerrrrrr hello, Pakistani forum, Pakistani member who started the thread, so please go back to cuckoo land before coming out with your Indian diarhorea mouth as this is all that seem to come out these days.

We are not the ones who allowed the Gujarat massacre and nowhere in Pakistan has scuh a tragedy occurred where a State has stood aside watching minorities massacred in a genocide of modern day ethnic cleansing in a democratic society.

I prefer where we are at the moment compared to that of India where tolerance in non existence and minorities fear genocide by out of controlled Hindu barbarians openly wielding swords and killing women and children alike.

Your judicial system Sir is non existent, try telling victims and their families about your Hindu raj law system. From Ayodhya till now nothing has been achieved nor leant, a massacre then followed by one 10 years later, openly in the eys of the world, where journalists need not venture far to picture a victim before meeting his/her violent death whilst Police stand and watch, no doubt under the influence and direction of fanatical Hindus representing their Mahabharat cult on the streets of India

[EjazR]

Originally Posted by Abhiras

It should be noticed that it was the bunch of Muslims who started the Gujarat riots by burning the train of the Hindu pilgrims in godhra (known as godhra kand) in Gujarat...which provoke the riots b/w the two communities.

Stop justifying the senseless violence. The thousands of people, hindu or muslim who died in the riots had nothing to do with the train burning. The kar sevaks involved in hooliganism and any other person hindu or muslim involved in the train burning should have been arrested and punished. But there is no justification of innocent villagers being killed for the crimes of someone else.

Just like AQ and other allied groups have no right in killing innocent civilians whether Americans or Indians or any other national who have nothing to do with say the killings in Iraq, or killing of innocent Indians through bombings of public places who had nothing to do with say the Gujarat riots.

This type of thinking is wrong. Bottom line is that this was done for political purposes as always. As long as they will continue to draw mileage through this type of divisive politics we will see this happening. The recent elections have shown that the average Indian rejects such divisive politics whether its based on caste, regionalism, or religion. And empowering the average person particularly women.

Read this report about how Hindu women have shown themselves to be braver than many men during such times and saved many lives. This is what we want to strengthen.
Women who dared


@Halaku
There is no need to make this a partisan issue. What does it matter if BJP or Congress was complicit or not. Its the people that make up that party that matters. If tomorrow the people who make up the BJP put forward a concrete policy for inclusive upliftment and justice for victims, do you think it will not be appreciated? Like I said why has it taken the SC and 7+ years to get the riot cases fast tracked in Gujarat while in Orissa the govt. there put up fast track courts straightaway without the need for SC involvement.

Lets get justice for the victims regardless of their faith, punish the culprits regardless of their faith. And lets stop justifying acts of violence were innocents are killed for the crimes of others regardless of their faith. Thats how we can get rid of and reduce fanaticism on btoh sides. That's why we need reforms for those in authority particularly the police so that they are impartial and professional during such situations.

Infact, most of the SITs consist of professional Gujarat cadre police officers who are bringing culprits to justice. These should be rewarded and those police officers who were under the influence of politicians punished

[Abhiras]

Originally Posted by EjazR

Stop justifying the senseless violence. The thousands of people, hindu or muslim who died in the riots had nothing to do with the train burning.

I agree that whatever happened should not have happened....But the spark which resulted in the riots was provided by that infamous incident....in which thousand of hindus & muslims were killed .......

These pakis got no sympathy for the Hindus or Muslims.....they just wanna criticize India........

Modi has administered the state excellently after the riots & the earthquake & he entered the hearts of both hindus & muslims o0f the state....

His party win by 2/3 majority in the assembly election after the roits..& clean majority 3rd time in the row shows that he is the favouraite their.....

[Skeptic]

Originally Posted by Abhiras

I agree that whatever happened should not have happened....But the spark which resulted in the riots was provided by that infamous incident....in which thousand of hindus & muslims were killed .......

Stop dwindling and sympathizing with gutless criminals that wrecked havoc during the riot. No justification can be deemed acceptable for such crimes. So all it will take is some hooligans to burn a train and rest will start running around on street killing and raping in response. This is not how a civilized nation should response and it is shameful. No community can be held responsible for some bad eggs.

These pakis got no sympathy for the Hindus or Muslims.....they just wanna criticize India........

So you change you response based on the audience, shows how much of a faith you have on your own abilities and shows the weakness of your conviction. And stop using Pak** and give respect to others and abstain from generalizing an entire nation if you want to become a better human being.

Modi has administered the state excellently after the riots & the earthquake & he entered the hearts of both hindus & muslims o0f the state....

His party win by 2/3 majority in the assembly election after the roits..& clean majority 3rd time in the row shows that he is the favouraite their.....

Good governance is not justification for mass murders. I am not saying Modi did it, but if he did - Justice must be served - which is already delayed. Hitler also led a very successful Germany - but can he be justified of his crimes?? Again Modi must be punished if he is a culprit and for that Law must take its course...

[Abhiras]

If a Chief Minister of the state is by chance unable to stops riots you cannot hang him....
There is no proper evidence against him.....the opposition is using the riots cards against him because they have nothing to say about him...

There is the UPA government in the center...& he would have been punished if he was guilty even a little bit for political reasons....


& i am not abusing the pakistanis......i just use 'pakis' lightly as the short form for pakistanis.....even literally 'pakis' means 'purist' as pak means 'pure'...
ok i will use pakistanis instead if you have certain problem....

[pak-marine]

Originally Posted by Abhiras

'pakis' ....

its not a term used for pakistanis ,**** is a swear word used by goras in western countries against south asian immigrants

[Abhiras]

Originally Posted by pak-marine

its not a term used for pakistanis ,**** is a swear word used by goras in western countries against south asian immigrants

Ohh then I apologize
i do not know it,
even i am south asian ...
'i use the word as Hindustani are called hindis'

[RiazHaq]

It has been almost eight years since the 2002 Gujarat riots in India in which at least 2,000 Muslims were killed by Hindu mobs and several hundred girls and women were stripped naked, raped or gang-raped, had their wombs slashed and were thrown into fires, some while still alive. But even today, tens of thousands of Muslims continue to languish in refugee camps, too afraid to return to their homes. Why? Because the names of the politicians, businessmen, officials and policemen who colluded in the anti-Muslim pogrom are widely known. Some of them were even caught on video, in a sting carried out by the weekly magazine Tehelka, proudly recalling how they murdered and raped Muslims. But, as Amnesty International pointed out in a recent report, justice continues to evade most victims and survivors of the violence. Another organization, Human Rights Watch, has also criticized the Indian government for failure to address the humanitarian condition of the victims, "overwhelming majority of them Muslim." Following their traumatic experiences, the surviving Muslim victims of Gujarat are still living in fear, as the perpetrators of riots remain powerful and roam free.

Haq's Musings: Gujarat Muslims Ignored by Indian Politicians

[Treatment]

Originally Posted by RiazHaq

It has been almost eight years since the 2002 Gujarat riots in India in which at least 2,000 Muslims were killed by Hindu mobs and several hundred girls and women were stripped naked, raped or gang-raped, had their wombs slashed and were thrown into fires, some while still alive. But even today, tens of thousands of Muslims continue to languish in refugee camps, too afraid to return to their homes. Why? Because the names of the politicians, businessmen, officials and policemen who colluded in the anti-Muslim pogrom are widely known. Some of them were even caught on video, in a sting carried out by the weekly magazine Tehelka, proudly recalling how they murdered and raped Muslims. But, as Amnesty International pointed out in a recent report, justice continues to evade most victims and survivors of the violence. Another organization, Human Rights Watch, has also criticized the Indian government for failure to address the humanitarian condition of the victims, "overwhelming majority of them Muslim." Following their traumatic experiences, the surviving Muslim victims of Gujarat are still living in fear, as the perpetrators of riots remain powerful and roam free.

Haq's Musings: Gujarat Muslims Ignored by Indian Politicians

I really appreciate your sympathy towards indian muslims - but what according to you should be done ? I also see lots of muslims in kashmir being killed by terrorrists from accross the border shoudnt we be holding responsible anyone who supports terrorism in kashmir ? come on lets not be two faced!

[ROSH]

Originally Posted by Gazzi

eeeerrrrrr hello, Pakistani forum, Pakistani member who started the thread, so please go back to cuckoo land before coming out with your Indian diarhorea mouth as this is all that seem to come out these days.

We are not the ones who allowed the Gujarat massacre and nowhere in Pakistan has scuh a tragedy occurred where a State has stood aside watching minorities massacred in a genocide of modern day ethnic cleansing in a democratic society.

I prefer where we are at the moment compared to that of India where tolerance in non existence and minorities fear genocide by out of controlled Hindu barbarians openly wielding swords and killing women and children alike.

Your judicial system Sir is non existent, try telling victims and their families about your Hindu raj law system. From Ayodhya till now nothing has been achieved nor leant, a massacre then followed by one 10 years later, openly in the eys of the world, where journalists need not venture far to picture a victim before meeting his/her violent death whilst Police stand and watch, no doubt under the influence and direction of fanatical Hindus representing their Mahabharat cult on the streets of India

Gajji

Quote
"nowhere in Pakistan has scuh a tragedy occurred where a State has stood aside watching minorities massacred in a genocide of modern day ethnic cleansing in a democratic society."

Amnesia.....or you considered your massacre in " East Pakistan" as not done in Pakistan ....eh.... or to be technically correct , State did it in the same fashion Nazis did in WWII..

[RiazHaq]

Originally Posted by Treatment

I really appreciate your sympathy towards indian muslims - but what according to you should be done ? I also see lots of muslims in kashmir being killed by terrorrists from accross the border shoudnt we be holding responsible anyone who supports terrorism in kashmir ? come on lets not be two faced!

It is the responsibility of the Indian government to bring to justice all of the perpetrators of Gujarat massacre. Unfortunately, it has miserably failed in its responsibility which allows mass murderers like Modi to stay in power and instill fear in the minorities.

It's not just Gujarat Muslims who are being denied justice. Indira's Sikh assassins met swift justice, but the murderers of 3,870 innocent Sikhs in 1984 still roam free a quarter of a century later.

Haq's Musings: Sikhs Remember Victims of 1984 Massacre

[RiazHaq]

Originally Posted by ROSH

Gajji

Quote
"nowhere in Pakistan has scuh a tragedy occurred where a State has stood aside watching minorities massacred in a genocide of modern day ethnic cleansing in a democratic society."

Amnesia.....or you considered your massacre in " East Pakistan" as not done in Pakistan ....eh.... or to be technically correct , State did it in the same fashion Nazis did in WWII..

You are deliberately trying to confuse Gujarat with East Pakistan. What happened in East Pakistan was highly deplorable and Pakistani politicians and miltary are partly responsible for the massacres.

But, unlike Gujarat, East Pakistan in 1971 had a civil war with many culprits, with Indian government organizing, arming and training the Mukti Bahini terrorists who carried out many massacres, such as the Jessore massacre documented by Sarmila Bose of India's Telegraph newspaper.

The Telegraph - Calcutta : Look

[ROSH]

[LIST]

Originally Posted by RiazHaq

You are deliberately trying to confuse Gujarat with East Pakistan. What happened in East Pakistan was highly deplorable and Pakistani politicians and miltary are partly responsible for the massacres.

But, unlike Gujarat, East Pakistan in 1971 had a civil war with many culprits, with Indian government organizing, arming and training the Mukti Bahini terrorists who carried out many massacres, such as the Jessore massacre documented by Sarmila Bose of India's Telegraph newspaper.

The Telegraph - Calcutta : Look

what cam first ..chicken or egg ? Difficult question..isn't it...
but the one on Bangladesh Movement is simple......Pakistan started it at took it to a point of no return......all the reactions are something they just asked for....

Anyway..I was replying to Gazzi's claim on Pakistani Govt being so clean ........Propaganda does wonders..i Know.....I suggest you guys google independent sources and read th history a fresh....don't go by your school text books ....it will hurt to know the truth in your old age.

[k_n]

Why are the Indian members JUSTIFYING the aftermath of Godhra Massacre ?
There are Pakistanis doubting Sangh Parivar for the burning of Sabarmati Express in order to seek an 'excuse' to carry out their 'plan' for intimidating the MUSLIMS all over the nation by buthering the community in the different pockets all over the state . Sabarmati Express was carrying KAR SEVAKS to Ayodhya where fresh life was being being breathed into the Ram Janm Bhoomi Andolan just before assembly elections in Gujrat . The support amongst the section of Hindus , who had stood by the Sangh Parivar and BJP in their Ram Janm Bhoomi Andolan in the 80s but felt betrayed when BJP after coming to power put the building of temple at disputed site in Ayodhya in a cold box and the internal party politics leading to many leaders who were BJP mascots during the andolan to go into oblivion , was dwindling . It shouldnt be forgotten that Gujrat Riots took place few months before the assembly elections were to take place in Gujrat . The BJP though at the centre , was losing state after state in assembly elections to Congress and other non-NDA parties , Gujrat was the last BJP bastion and was supposed to be defended .

I'am Indian , was pretty much aware of what was happening in the February of 2002 in Gujrat from the day the VHP announced 'Gujrat Bandh' mourning the deaths of Kar Sevaks the very next day of odhra massacre , as every evening I saw all the news channels reporting on the grim Human Rights situation in Gujrat . The very night of the massacre Zee News interviewed Maharaj Giriraj Kishore on his reaction . The old man seemed very disturbed and , i can say , even though i was just entering my teens i knew HE's disturbed and means business .

The Pakistanis and many Indians ( Both Hindus and Muslims ) will always wonder whether the whole episode was a Sangh Parivar and BJP creation in order to assert itself as the forebearer of Hindutva after its falling mandate amongst the Hindus who mistook the political gimmick of BJP for building of RAM TEMPLE at Ayodhya to come to power at the centre as the sincere efforts of a 'Hindu' Political Party to restore the honour of Hindus in country , wiping out the humiliation suffered when Temples were raided at Somnath , Mathura and .... in long gone centuries by building a Temple for our beloved Lord Ram at the almighty's SYMBOLIC birth place .

[ROSH]

Originally Posted by k_n

Why are the Indian members JUSTIFYING the aftermath of Godhra Massacre ?
There are Pakistanis doubting Sangh Parivar for the burning of Sabarmati Express in order to seek an 'excuse' to carry out their 'plan' for intimidating the MUSLIMS all over the nation by buthering the community in the different pockets all over the state . Sabarmati Express was carrying KAR SEVAKS to Ayodhya where fresh life was being being breathed into the Ram Janm Bhoomi Andolan just before assembly elections in Gujrat . The support amongst the section of Hindus , who had stood by the Sangh Parivar and BJP in their Ram Janm Bhoomi Andolan in the 80s but felt betrayed when BJP after coming to power put the building of temple at disputed site in Ayodhya in a cold box and the internal party politics leading to many leaders who were BJP mascots during the andolan to go into oblivion , was dwindling . It shouldnt be forgotten that Gujrat Riots took place few months before the assembly elections were to take place in Gujrat . The BJP though at the centre , was losing state after state in assembly elections to Congress and other non-NDA parties , Gujrat was the last BJP bastion and was supposed to be defended .

I'am Indian , was pretty much aware of what was happening in the February of 2002 in Gujrat from the day the VHP announced 'Gujrat Bandh' mourning the deaths of Kar Sevaks the very next day of odhra massacre , as every evening I saw all the news channels reporting on the grim Human Rights situation in Gujrat . The very night of the massacre Zee News interviewed Maharaj Giriraj Kishore on his reaction . The old man seemed very disturbed and , i can say , even though i was just entering my teens i knew HE's disturbed and means business .

The Pakistanis and many Indians ( Both Hindus and Muslims ) will always wonder whether the whole episode was a Sangh Parivar and BJP creation in order to assert itself as the forebearer of Hindutva after its falling mandate amongst the Hindus who mistook the political gimmick of BJP for building of RAM TEMPLE at Ayodhya to come to power at the centre as the sincere efforts of a 'Hindu' Political Party to restore the honour of Hindus in country , wiping out the humiliation suffered when Temples were raided at Somnath , Mathura and .... in long gone centuries by building a Temple for our beloved Lord Ram at the almighty's SYMBOLIC birth place .

Nobody can justify the killing of innocent life...I want to see all the culprits hanged in my lifetime .....ASAP....so as it sets a precedent for everybody. Not only that, I want to see all the bossess of these organization too being implicated, their illegal wealth seized and they being severely punished by law.

Is theer any doubt that VHP, BAJRANGDAL, SHIVSENA etc etc..are a big nuisance to our society ?? Their activities too needs to be closely monitored just like SIMI....PERIOD.

We should not live in history..what has happened 200- 500 years back ....has happened.....no point trying to correct any historical events..... We should rather spend our time and resources for a better future, stronger and prosperous nation.