Nobel committee warned not to award peace prize to Chinese dissident

[below_freezing]

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In all honesty, HK's relative prosperity can, to a certain degree (exact threshold debatable of course), be attributable to the relative effectiveness and "cleanliness" of British rule.

Like all "colonialists" in the past, the Brits could be both "enlightening" and oppressive. Going back in time, we saw the "Hellenes" under Alexander the Great exert complex influence on large tracts of Eurasia ...

As much as I disagree with Liu's naive enthusiasm over "romantic colonization", there are two sides to this. Of all people here, I would expect you to be able to "辩证" both sides ...

This has little to do with the real reason why Liu is in prison, nor the dispensing of "Nobel" political price to him or others.

challenger 2.0. japan/britain/greece rule i love colonialism and hate my own kind

[oceanx]

challenger 2.0. ... japan/britain/greece rule ... i love colonialism and hate my own kind

The music sounds better and more authentic when you sing it like this: "down with the running dogs of ..."

I guess the Cultural Revolution is not really over for you after all - despite you eagerness to build a "red guard" strawman at every turn ... tsk, tsk, tsk.

I hate to disappoint you - I most definitely do not hate you.

Just occasionally feel sorry.

[below_freezing]

no, it's an easy way to dismiss critics that don't agree to your pro-western viewpoints by accusing them of cultural revolution thinking. however your position has reminded me of challenger's position in supporting japan's war of aggression. the vast majority of chinese do not support japan's slaughter of 30 million chinese nor do they support britain's looting of our country for 80 years. these are also not matters of personal preference like clothes and shoes are.

just another whitewashed "expert".

[oceanx]

no, it's an easy way to dismiss critics that don't agree to your pro-western viewpoints by accusing them of cultural revolution thinking. however your position has reminded me of challenger's position in supporting japan's war of aggression. the vast majority of chinese do not support japan's slaughter of 30 million chinese nor do they support britain's looting of our country for 80 years. these are also not matters of personal preference like clothes and shoes are.

just another whitewashed "expert".

Time dude to take your head out of the freezer. I am usually accused to be the one to derail threads. But do please have another look at what you wrote.

Did Challenger or whoever even get anywhere near this thread? I wasn't around when s/he (allegedly) made whatever outlandish statements to excuse Japan's past conduct.

So what's the use of harping on an old tired tune? Admittedly I am guilty of going overboard with little dragon from time to time. But I just wanted to "tease" him a little (and his "international school 出身" ... but then he takes it so seriously so I quit).

It would make my day to see you more secure with yourself. You may think you are but your words betray otherwise.

That's all.

[below_freezing]

Time dude to take your head out of the freezer. I am usually accused to be the one to derail threads. But do please have another look at what you wrote.

Did Challenger or whoever even get anywhere near this thread? I wasn't around when s/he (allegedly) made whatever outlandish statements to excuse Japan's past conduct.

So what's the use of harping on an old tired tune? Admittedly I am guilty of going overboard with little dragon from time to time. But I just wanted to "tease" him a little (and his "international school 出身" ... but then he takes it so seriously so I quit).

It would make my day to see you more secure with yourself. You may think you are but your words betray otherwise.

That's all.

your comments led me to associate him with you, because in principle they are the same. the only difference is, he directly supports japanese colonialism, you express support for a supporter of british colonialism. the degree is different, the type is not.

[oceanx]

your comments led me to associate him with you, because in principle they are the same. the only difference is, he directly supports japanese colonialism, you express support for a supporter of british colonialism. the degree is different, the type is not.

First of all I dispute the above as pointing out nuances is not tantamount to outright advocacy.

Secondly, even if we were to split hair the way you like it, history records that the people of HK did not rebel against the Brits the way Chinese in general did against the Japanese.

The same way "Taiwanese" (by and large) did not resist the Japanese with the same ferocity the Irish fought off the English.

Different methods, in different times, under different conditions lead to different outcome.

Not recognizing this is in my books an indirect approval of "red guards" mentality.

And I am not accusing you of anything. Just pointing out the importance I personally attach to "辩证".

[Nomenclature]

So now the award went to Liu as expected, is the Chinese PR machine ready for the task? I'll be disappointed if they didn't have a contingency plan in place for this, but who knows given the chaotic National Day holiday schedule.

[oceanx]

So now the award went to Liu as expected, is the Chinese PR machine ready for the task? I'll be disappointed if they didn't have a contingency plan in place for this, but who knows given the chaotic National Day holiday schedule.

The winner is Mr. Liu. I confess that I feel for his life and journey more so than I could "sympathize" with his collection of mild platitudes (零八宪章).

No one is saying these "platitudes" are not relevant to China. However, back then 刘少奇 (Liu Shaoqi)'s experience told us that just having a "paper constitution" in the best tradition of Enlightenment don't matter an iota by itself ...

Even nowadays they can open their own eyes and behold the Tea Party and their obsessions with the "constitution".

However, Liu's view that the June 4th incident could have been handled differently still resonates with me strongly - that I cannot deny ...

The biggest loser, I would reckon, is the "respected" Norwegian Nobel Committee. Had they not awarded the "prize" to Liu, accusations that they kowtowed to the CCP would've piled on like an avalanche.

But now that they did, they simply lose more credibility in the eyes of the "commoners". But then again, how much can you lose if it has already been reduced to little to begin with ...

Nevertheless, I congratulate Mr. Liu. He deserves an early "medical" release and a tenureship of some sort in that Shinning City upon a Hill.

[siegecrossbow]

So now the award went to Liu as expected, is the Chinese PR machine ready for the task? I'll be disappointed if they didn't have a contingency plan in place for this, but who knows given the chaotic National Day holiday schedule.

The Chinese PR machine is a joke nowadays. What do you expect them to say? I expect better retorts coming from our internet brigades.

[challenger]

The winner is Mr. Liu. I confess that I feel for his life and journey more so than I could "sympathize" with his collection of mild platitudes (零八宪章).

No one is saying these "platitudes" are not relevant to China. However, back then 刘少奇 (Liu Shaoqi)'s experience told us that just having a "paper constitution" in the best tradition of Enlightenment don't matter an iota by itself ...

Even nowadays they can open their own eyes and behold the Tea Party and their obsessions with the "constitution".

However, Liu's view that the June 4th incident could have been handled differently still resonates with me strongly - that I cannot deny ...

The biggest loser, I would reckon, is the "respected" Norwegian Nobel Committee. Had they not awarded the "prize" to Liu, accusations that they kowtowed to the CCP would've piled on like an avalanche.

But now that they did, they simply lose more credibility in the eyes of the "commoners". But then again, how much can you lose if it has already been reduced to little to begin with ...

Nevertheless, I congratulate Mr. Liu. He deserves an early "medical" release and a tenureship of some sort in that Shinning City upon a Hill.

His agenda is a threat to China's national security and territorial integrity. He is an enemy of the state, of the Chinese people. He has been punished according to the law. Case closed.

The wish to see China defenseless is a wet dream for all the enemies of China. Therefore, giving Nobel prizes won't destroy China. China isn't that fragile.

[below_freezing]

The Chinese PR machine is a joke nowadays. What do you expect them to say? I expect better retorts coming from our internet brigades.

Our PR machine is neither trained in the Soviet/North Korean style of launching ideological assaults and taking up extreme views while never budging, nor trained in the US style of fake news.

They are trained to give the facts in a boring way and never be too extreme.

Disgusting. We should hire North Korea's media to do this one.

[applesauce]

Nobel Peace prize is a farce. If a future President of a country could get based on his manifesto, anyone could get it.

the peace prize wasnt even originally meant for things like human rights, of course giving it to obama for doing absolutely nothing is something even americans disagree with, according to cnn polls anyways.

[CardSharp]

the peace prize wasnt even originally meant for things like human rights, of course giving it to obama for doing absolutely nothing is something even americans disagree with, according to cnn polls anyways.

I wonder if anyone can dig up the justification they gave for awarding it it to Arafat.

[Peregrine]

Chinese, Muslims & all those states who are vehemently opposed by the western world should have known better that they will always resort to such cheap tactics to **** them off. This is nothing new, embracing Rushdie, Dalai lama etc add to their shananigans. However when it comes to them, they can't even tolerate Talibans killing their soldiers in a computer game. LOL

[CardSharp]

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I think what has bothered me most about this Nobel thing is how westerners automatically assume that Liu Xiaobo speaks for the Chinese people. Maybe it's the inherent human flaw of assuming that everyone must think like they do and that all Chinese people must want what they want but it is beyond arrogant for westerner writers to claim they know the collective opinion of 1.5 billion people are behind Liu

The talk heads on BBC worldnews going on and on about how many "dissident" friends they have and how these people represent all of China makes me want to threw up.