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Sikh To Death, a War nerd's tribute to Sikh warriors

Now this is what typical Indians are.. religion could be anything.. location can be changed but the attitude is never going to be change... sick of all this...

Lolz You have to come to US and Canada, Sikh here are more backwards than Sikhs in India, they might not know how to write Gurmukhi but they are chest thumping what caste they belong to :lol: I mostly ignore Sikhs these days, hardly they study or goto good universities or work in high tech firms etc etc
 
Lolz You have to come to US and Canada, Sikh here are more backwards than Sikhs in India, they might not know how to write Gurmukhi but they are chest thumping what caste they belong to :lol: I mostly ignore Sikhs these days, hardly they study or goto good universities or work in high tech firms etc etc

I also noticed something different this time during my travel to Badrinath temple where Hemkund Sahib is on the way. Most of young Sikhs (almost 70%) has their beards nicely trimmed and maintained. A typical effect of "Singh is King". I never saw my friends doing the same.
 
Agree with you almost but need a clarification on bolded part.
Thanx!

I don't mean to disrespect the brahmins - But if you look around the world you will notice that the one's who twist religion and faith are the ones who uphold them the most and in all religion it is the clergy!

;-). The Brahmins did the same with the caste system as the Church priests did to the witches or the radicals during the dark ages.....well it has always been about religion and trust me it will be the cause of the next world war!

Cheers!
 
I don't mean to disrespect the brahmins - But if you look around the world you will notice that the one's who twist religion and faith are the ones who uphold them the most and in all religion it is the clergy!

;-). The Brahmins did the same with the caste system as the Church priests did to the witches or the radicals during the dark ages.....well it has always been about religion and trust me it will be the cause of the next world war!

Cheers!

Bhai, i did not took it as an offence just want to know about Brahmin's emotional atyachar on other castes...lol!!! btw am a gaur brahmin..lol!!!!
I know what they use to do with poors in medival times...that is sadly continues till date in many parts of India..like.. different wells for low caste and prohibiting them to enter in Temples..
 
Bhai, i did not took it as an offence just want to know about Brahmin's emotional atyachar on other castes...lol!!! btw am a gaur brahmin..lol!!!!
I know what they use to do with poors in medival times...that is sadly continues till date in many parts of India..like.. different wells for low caste and prohibiting them to enter in Temples..

Thats all that I meant bro ;-).

It happens and will continue to happen untill we have enough people who are educated and will take some time to read our own scriptures to understand the scenario - It is again just a cycle which will come to an end someday.
:cheers:
 
Thats all that I meant bro ;-).

It happens and will continue to happen untill we have enough people who are educated and will take some time to read our own scriptures to understand the scenario - It is again just a cycle which will come to an end someday.
:cheers:

well, this wil lcontinue till the end of this world.... India canot be seperated from caste system and politics based on it...
:)
 
She had to pay for her sins/ misadventures I guess!! and you know the irony. The two sikhs who killed Indra Gandhi were from lower caste SC I think, they did such a brave act which even others proud Sikhs couldn't do it....:cheers::cheers:

So a bodyguard, one who is ensured with a person's safety turning on that person is an act of bravery?

If these are your standards of bravery, bro,,,,,,,,,,,,,
 
So a bodyguard, one who is ensured with a person's safety turning on that person is an act of bravery?

If these are your standards of bravery, bro,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Yeah running over Golden Temple using Military Tanks and killing civilians is not NICE... to make it personal they were someone's mother, father, sister, brother and who have nothing to do with Khalistan.

Every morning waking up and seeing your face saving someone's *** who has killed thousands of innocents is not a kind of life one wants to live?eh??
 
I also noticed something different this time during my travel to Badrinath temple where Hemkund Sahib is on the way. Most of young Sikhs (almost 70%) has their beards nicely trimmed and maintained. A typical effect of "Singh is King". I never saw my friends doing the same.

Trimmed is still fine. What we are in greater danger of is losing our identity all-together via the so-called Cut-Surds.

And no, Singh is King has no influence on the trimming. Its something that was happening for quite some time.
 
Yeah running over Golden Temple using Military Tanks and killing civilians is not NICE... to make it personal they were someone's mother, father, sister, brother and who have nothing to do with Khalistan.

Every morning waking up and seeing your face saving someone's *** who has killed thousands of innocents is not a kind of life one wants to live?eh??

I can see a big difference of opinion coming up here........

Op Bluestar was needed, but the way it was done was terrible. Point conceded. It was a gigantic f-up. People died on both sides, but those inside had a choice of surrender which they chose not to exercise.

But turning on the person you are being paid to guard, is an act of sick reprehensible cowardice by any standards and not to be condoned.

This is the basic point that the two sides will never agree on, bro.
If you don't want to see someone's face, resign.
 
Dear Sir,

A confession: I cheated a little. I assumed the Telugu member of your trio to be interchangeably Telugu and Kannadiga. That is of course something that will bring down every 'diga on my neck, and I will in all probability have to settle down away from Bangalore.

During our history course, when studying ancient India, we came across a curious period in Indian history called the Tripartite Struggle. During this period, which strictly speaking isn't ancient India, but really early mediaeval India, there were three dynasties in three corners of India struggling for power, and with sequential victories. Surprisingly, the majority of the victories were won by the southern power, the Rashtrakuta dynasty, against the north-western Rajput Pratihara, or Gurjara Pratihara, and the eastern Palas of Bengal.

This period of two hundred years saw almost cyclical swings in fortune, all marked by conquest of Kannauj, the golden apple of those times. There is no point in going into the intricate detail of campaign after campaign, except to observe certain things in the military historical and ethnic contexts.

In terms of military history, the significance of the Pratiharas and the different ways of war-making of the Pratihara and Rashtrakuta armies is worth mentioning.

The Pratihara were almost certainly a cavalry army, and used that arm extensively. They bottled up the Arab rulers of Sindh, and defeated their efforts to penetrate further in two different battles, which led to the loss of the left bank of the Indus, and the consolidation of Arab power in Mansurah, on the right bank. Subsequently, they found themselves constantly at war with Turkic invaders for nearly a century more, before they finally crumbled into their constituent feudatories, the Chauhans, of whom Prithviraj must be the best remembered, and the Guhilots took Chitorgarh. Three other clans, the Kalachuris, the Chandelas and the Paramars, broke off three other bits of the empire. Their rule over Kannauj lasted the longest, until Mahmud of Ghazni defeated them and sacked the city.

In sharp contrast, Rashtrakuta armies were largely infantry, although there were cavalry and elephant sections as well. It was with this infantry army that they flung back the cavalry armies of the west, and what seems to have been cavalry armies in the east as well. One historian of this period (I forget who, after 40 years of lack of access to the text books) called them the Assyrians of India, in tems of professional conduct of war.

In terms of ethnic observance, it makes nonsense of the British claim of martial races, since it was essentially the Kannadigas winning most battles, and the Bengalis and Rajputs being equally poised.

Considering that the battle for South India and East India, to quite an extent, the battles against the Marathas, including the future Duke of Wellington's signature battle, Assaye, were won by local recruits, it is clear that the martial races was an invention of the British.

I hope you found this curiousity of Indian history interesting: South Indian better than North, East Indian = Bengali and Rajput equally matched. But - alas - somebody sharp will ask me about Kambhoj horsemen riding for the Palas, and my whole pack of cards will come tumbling down!

Sincerely,

Hello Joe,

Thankful indeed for your detailed explanation. Clear and informative, as usual!

Yes, Kannadigas were great 'Empire builders'. You named one of them, the Rashtrakutas. There were many more empires originating from this region. Other than the Rashtrakutas,there were the Chalukyas (and their different flavours!), Hoysalas, Kadambas, Gangas and not to forget, the Vijayanagar empire. Probably we cannot include the Bahamani Sultans, the ones from Bijapur or the Mysore under Tipu/Wodeyars as an empire... more of 'kingdom' probably.

So, this particular region did indeed have a knack of coming up with empires and not just mere kingdoms, no doubt about that.

However, having said that, would it be enough to classify 'digas as a martial race... or more so as the superior one? I do have my reservations on that.

Empires are a product of great leaders and generals. Ofcourse it does require able foot soldiers, no doubt. 'Able' as in disciplined, motivated and number of other factors. 'Martial race' is (taking some help from wiki! :-) ) a race considered to be brave and well built for fighting and also having a love/fetish for fights. I am more than willing to give the first point, but have serious problems assigning the last two on the 'digas. And how can I prove my first point in this paragraph? Again using another wiki source as usual, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Karnataka):

The recorded history of Karnataka goes back more than two millennia. Several great empires and dynasties have ruled over Karnataka and have contributed greatly to the history, culture and development of Karnataka.

The impact of kingdoms of Karnataka origin have been felt over other parts of India also. The Sena Dynasty of Bengal called themselves Karnata Kshatriyas, the Karnatas of Mithila ruled over present day Bihar called themselves Karnata Vamsha and Karnataka Kshatriya[1]. The Chindaka Nagas of centra India, Gangas of Kalinga (Orissa)[2], Rashtrakutas of Manyakheta,[3] Chalukyas of Vengi[4], Yadava Dynasty of Devagiri were all of Kannada origin [5] who later took to encouraging local languages.

No 'digas as the foot soldiers!

Having ranted about for some time, I think I will end my rather longish post saying that I must say that I think I know why you brought this up and agree with you whole-heartedly! :-) And I may have made mistakes with few of the points, as I am reduced to using the internet for information rather than books. A great habit of mine in my younger days, that is reading books, which sadly I have forsaken from ages.

BTW, what's the rent in Silchar like? I probably have to flee from Bangalore soon. I just said that Kannadigas cannot be classified as 'well built'!!! :hang2:
 
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I can see a big difference of opinion coming up here........

Op Bluestar was needed, but the way it was done was terrible. Point conceded. It was a gigantic f-up. People died on both sides, but those inside had a choice of surrender which they chose not to exercise.

But turning on the person you are being paid to guard, is an act of sick reprehensible cowardice by any standards and not to be condoned.

This is the basic point that the two sides will never agree on, bro.
If you don't want to see someone's face, resign.

Sides choose their methods of warfare. Sikh separatist werent expected to walk up to 10 Janpath and challenge IG in broad daylight. A weaker opponent will use whatever means necessary to kill its adversary.

I must add, I am not trying to defend IG's killers. Just trying to present a different PoV.
 
Sides choose their methods of warfare. Sikh separatist werent expected to walk up to 10 Janpath and challenge IG in broad daylight. A weaker opponent will use whatever means necessary to kill its adversary.

I must add, I am not trying to defend IG's killers. Just trying to present a different PoV.

No, you're sitting on the fence. The question is- were IG's bodyguards brave men?

I would still, reluctantly. use the term for Bhindranwale and the militants inside the temple, but not for someone who turns around and guns down an unarmed woman that you are being paid to protect. If it bugged them so much, they should have deserted.
 
No, you're sitting on the fence. The question is- were IG's bodyguards brave men?

I would still, reluctantly. use the term for Bhindranwale and the militants inside the temple, but not for someone who turns around and guns down an unarmed woman that you are being paid to protect. If it bugged them so much, they should have deserted.

That unarmed woman was surely responsible for a lot more deaths than an armed soldier. Just because you dont carry arms doesnt mean you cant kill. This is not a medieval knight's tale.

Yes, I will call them brave. Since it takes courage to do what you plan to do knowing fully well the consequences of your actions. They knew they'd die still they went ahead and did it. An evil, tyrannical, ruler like her deserved it.
 
That unarmed woman was surely responsible for a lot more deaths than an armed soldier. Just because you dont carry arms doesnt mean you cant kill. This is not a medieval knight's tale.

Yes, I will call them brave. Since it takes courage to do what you plan to do knowing fully well the consequences of your actions. They knew they'd die still they went ahead and did it. An evil, tyrannical, ruler like her deserved it.

*Sigh*

Here we go again. The wounds of 1984 have almost healed, but the last few scabs remain. In the end, it comes down to exactly this point. Let's not pretend that it's not a Sikh vs Mona POV.

IG created Bhindranwale, yes. After a point, it was Sikhs Vs Hindus in Punjab, and we know who was at the wrong end of the barrel.

The Golden temple was a fortress- a holy place that was used for military means. I'll give you the allowance of "The Sikhs are a martial race, this was their last stand and it's ok that Bhindranwale was living and sleeping and performing bodily functions in the same room as the Holy Book". Fine, defiling the holiest place of worship is justified in your eyes.

In the end, Militants in the Golden Temple represented a direct challenge to the Sovereignty of the Indian state, a lot like a certain attack on Parliament. In your opinion, was that OK? Perhaps you think that was a good thing, do let me know.

Op Black Thunder in 1986 was more successful because they learned lessons from Blue Star. Also, the situation was very different. The militants were much better prepared in '84 and could have held out for months while Punjab and the nation burned. What do you suggest IG did? Open negotiations with militants? (note I'm not using the T-word here because one man's......you know. This is PDF, after all)

And btw, this is the same "An evil, tyrannical, ruler" that had the ba*** to go to war, and win, in 1971. I'm sure we all love to gloat at that particular victory of her. A strong leader, my friend, is a double edged sword.

I'm not going to argue any more- Hindus concede that many wrongs were done to the Sikhs, not least the aftermath of IG's assasination- that was one of the blackest chapters in our history.

But if you're saying that the Sikhs were pure, righteous, true and brave down to the last man and they were victims all along...and that murdering an unarmed person that you are being paid to protect, a job that keeps you and your family fed and protected, to look her in the eye and gun her down- if that is bravery, then every suicide bomber that blows himself up in a crowded market is very brave indeed.

Peace, bro:cheers:
 

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