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Despite frantic effort by Lockheed Martin India ditches F-21 for LCA

Dalit

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Our chances of getting a new kind of F-16 just dramatically shrank. The Indian air force recently signaled it would cancel a tender for foreign-made warplanes.

It was that contest that motivated American plane-maker Lockheed Martin LMT to develop a unique, highly-advanced F-16 variant the company called the “F-21.”

The Indian air force in 2019 announced it would spend up to $15 billion buying 114 fighters. The plan was for the new planes to replace old MiG-21s and fly alongside European-designed Jaguars, French Mirage 2000s and Rafales, Russian MiG-29s and Su-30s and India’s own indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft in what Lockheed described as “the world’s largest fighter aircraft ecosystem.”

The F-21, Boeing BA‘s F/A-18E/F, the Rafale, the European Typhoon, the Swedish Gripen E and the Russian MiG-35 and Su-35 all were contenders. Indian companies would have assembled the new jets on license.

No longer. “The Indian Air Force is switching that to the LCA,” Chief of the Defense Staff Bipin Rawat said in an interview. The air force would order 83 additional Tejas on top of the 40 LCAs the service already has paid for.

Those 83 LCAs would cost $6 billion. That’s less than half what New Delhi planned to spend under the previous tender, implying that cost motivated the decision.

“The IAF is saying, I would rather take the indigenous fighter, it is good,” Rawat said.

The Indian air force in 2020 maintains just 28 fighter squadrons against a requirement for 42 squadrons. The service hopes to stand up three new units in 2020 as additional Rafales, Su-30s and LCAs arrive.

Hindustan Aeronautics’ Tejas, which first flew in 2001, is far less sophisticated than the F-21 would have been. The delta-wing, lightweight LCA can carry around 8,000 pounds of ordnance—half what an Indian Su-30MKI can haul. The Tejas also is slower and less maneuverable than India’s other foreign-made fighters are.

The F-21, by contrast, would have included technology from the company’s F-22 and F-35 stealth fighters. “The F-21 has common components and learning from Lockheed Martin’s fifth-generation F-22 and F-35 and will share a common supply chain on a variety of components,” Lockheed stated on its website on the morning of Feb. 20, 2019.

A few hours later, that claim disappeared from the site. In any event, the F-21 would have been the most advanced version yet of the single-engine F-16, which flew for the first time in 1974.

The F-21 design boasted new cockpit displays, conformal fuel tanks, a large airframe spine that could accommodate communication systems or radar-jammers, fittings for towed radar decoys, a new infrared sensor and a refueling probe for use with India’s Russian-made aerial tankers.

Production of the F-21 would have extended one of the world’s most successful fighter programs.

Around 2,300 of F-16s fly for more than 30 air arms, accounting for no less than four percent of all the world’s military aircraft. But even without an Indian order, Lockheed anticipates it could continue building new F-16s through 2030.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2020/05/16/say-goodbye-to-indias-super-f-16/amp/
 
Lockheed Martin went very deep to tempt IAF to opt for the new super F-16. IAF instead wants to go for locally produced fighters. I think this choice stems from PAF joint venture with China. JF-17 has a deep impact on IAF psyche. Especially after 27th. IAF wants to prove to its audience that it can match a domestic project. Probably the Indians would argue that PAF already operates F-16, but the F-21 was supposed to be a completely different overhauled fighter. The Americans stand redfaced as IAF initially opted for Rafale instead of opting for F-18. This is indeed a double blow.
 
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Hi,

Here is what I would like to share---. The indians are not idiots---let me repeat it one more time---indians are not idiots---.

By going with the F16 BLK70---they would have alowed the US to take control of their offensive fighting capabilities---and no sane nation would do something like that unless it is Pakistan air force---.

The indians weighed the pluses and minuses of the F16 to the Tejas and assessed that a properly upgraded Tejas is not too far behind the F16 BLK 70 or the F21---as it is tagged to be---.

India cannot be and will not be dictated what the US orders in a time of crisis---.

Bottomline---india will hardly lose sleep over this non issue at this time---.
 
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By going with the F16 BLK70---they would have alowed the US to take control of their offensive fighting capabilities---and no sane nation would do something like that unless it is Pakistan air force---.

The indians weighed the pluses and minuses of the F16 to the Tejas and assessed that a properly upgraded Tejas is not too fat behind the F16 BLK 70 or the F21---as it is tagged to be---.

India cannot be and will not be dictated what the US orders in a time of crisis---

That is an even a bigger slap in the face of Indian ally US. The Americans claim that the F-21 would have incorporated 5th gen tech. Despite these lofty claims the IAF simply ditched the F-21 offer. Did the IAF not buy the American claims? Ditching F-21 with 5th gen tech for something like LCA is not a small thing. If we are to believe American claims the F-21 would have been an absolute killer fighter.

I am very glad that PAF started a JV with China. The PAF carefully selected the components and is able to produce the fighter to a very large extent domestically. The F-16 will eventually be phased out in coming years as more advanced versions of JF-17 and project Azm become available.

I think India also hopes it can emulate JF-17 export success. The American had a lot riding on F-21. After losing MMRCA tender the US was adamant to sell India its fighters.
 
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One Should take a bigger look to scheme of things. More than F-16/F-21, India Ditched US war against China as well. I strongly believe all this developments are sudden. Indian Govt. is now of the view that not many US companies are coming to India from China... During Bilateral talks as well India said many times to US that to rise against China/ rather than militarily India need to stand Economically as well.
Economics of F-16/F-21 was, American companies coming to India/ditching China.. India gets financial edge and Start buying their Weapons.. No companies/No weapons.
But this may change Once Donald Trump lost second term.
This pattern is taken up by All US allies in Pacific except Australia. Neither Seoul NOR Tokyo is against Bejing untill Trump is their in the US.
China keeps earning from The US companies, and we buying Weapons is Just stupid strategy.
 
One Should take a bigger look to scheme of things. More than F-16/F-21, India Ditched US war against China as well. I strongly believe all this developments are sudden. Indian Govt. is now of the view that not many US companies are coming to India from China... During Bilateral talks as well India said many times to US that to rise against China/ rather than militarily India need to stand Economically as well.
Economics of F-16/F-21 was, American companies coming to India/ditching China.. India gets financial edge and Start buying their Weapons.. No companies/No weapons.
But this may change Once Donald Trump lost second term.
This pattern is taken up by All US allies in Pacific except Australia. Neither Seoul NOR Tokyo is against Bejing untill Trump is their in the US.
China keeps earning from The US companies, and we buying Weapons is Just stupid strategy.

Wow that is truly incredible if true. What if Donald Trump doesn't lose second term?
 
Hi,

Here is what I would like to share---. The indians are not idiots---let me repeat it one more time---indians are not idiots---.

By going with the F16 BLK70---they would have alowed the US to take control of their offensive fighting capabilities---and no sane nation would do something like that unless it is Pakistan air force---.

The indians weighed the pluses and minuses of the F16 to the Tejas and assessed that a properly upgraded Tejas is not too fat behind the F16 BLK 70 or the F21---as it is tagged to be---.

India cannot be and will not be dictated what the US orders in a time of crisis---.

Bottomline---india will hardly lose sleep over this non issue at this time---.
F-16 Block 70/72 and F-21 are two different aircraft. Block 70/72 is arguably the most advanced aircraft in its class (multiple satisfied customers as of late). F-21 was supposed to be even bigger leap with LO characteristics and no competitor in its class.

India does not have the technical prowess and know-how to match these two birds in local capacity at present. Even with sourced parts, local products will not match American 5th generation class avionics in function. There are things about aviation which cannot be sourced and replicated. It is due to this factor why any country cannot just clone F-22A Raptor and call it a day; each will come up with its own design.

Nevertheless, big relief for Pakistan.
 
F-16 Block 70/72 and F-21 are two different aircraft. Block 70/72 is arguably the most advanced aircraft in its class already (numerous satisfied customers as of late). F-21 was supposed to be an even bigger leap with no competitor in its class.

India does not have the technical prowess and knowhow to match these two birds in local capacity. Even with sourced parts, a local product cannot match American 5th generation class parts and designs.

Nevertheless, big relief for Pakistan.

I think there is also a lot of politics involved. Indians feel betrayed by Trump. The Indians wanted primary role in Afghanistan, but instead are playing second fiddle. The Modi regime had high hopes after Trump got elected. They were convinced that Trump would isolate and boycott Pakistan into oblivion. It hasn't happened as the Indians had envisaged. The Americans haven't even been able to place Pakistan on FATF blacklist. Something the Modi regime has been yearning for. Basically disappointment from the Indian side. After 27th India was hoping for full support from its ally, but it did not come. The Americans responded lukewarm and even dispelled the notion that F-16s were missing. Trump has gone to extreme length to protect economy. The Indians were expecting a lot of concessions like in previous years under Obama.
 
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I think there is also a lot of politics involved. Indians feel betrayed by Trump. The Indians wanted primary role in Afghanistan, but instead are playing second fiddle. The Modi regime had high hopes after Trump got elected. They were convinced that Trump would isolate and boycott Pakistan into oblivion. It hasn't happened as the Indians had envisaged. The Americans haven't even been able to place Pakistan on FATF blacklist. Something the Modi regime has been yearning for. Basically disappointment from the Indian side.

Hi,

During this Covid19 crisis---india saw the true side of the US---angry and belligerent---US---trying to blame on anyone---careless and inconsiderate US---the unpredictable US---.

I very much doubt that india would want to be a totally dependent partner to such a super power---.

Pres Duterte was right when he stated---agreements with the US don't mean anything nowadays---.

Indian decision has confirmed that---.
 
Indians didn't go for it because Pakistan has decades of experience on this fighter jet. 2nd thing is rightfully pointed out by @MastanKhan that like PAF, IAF doesn't want to be bound by the scrutiny and checks that come with the American equipment. At anytime Americans would have imposed sanctions over anything and IAF would have to suffer because of it. Sigh of relief for PAF as india still doesn't have any credible BVR solution against them. F-21 would have nullified our advantage.
 
F-16 Block 70/72 and F-21 are two different aircraft. Block 70/72 is arguably the most advanced aircraft in its class already (numerous satisfied customers as of late). F-21 was supposed to be an even bigger leap with no competitor in its class.

India does not have the technical prowess and knowhow to match these two birds in local capacity. Even with sourced parts, a local product cannot match American 5th generation class parts and designs.

Nevertheless, big relief for Pakistan.

Hi,

When I mentioned F16 blk70 for India it by default meant whatever aircraft is being meant for india---would not make any different---.

It is not a matter of matching those birds---it is a matter of Indian sovereignty & power to decide what to do at times of crisis---.
 
I think there is also a lot of politics involved. Indians feel betrayed by Trump. The Indians wanted primary role in Afghanistan, but instead are playing second fiddle. The Modi regime had high hopes after Trump got elected. They were convinced that Trump would isolate and boycott Pakistan into oblivion. It hasn't happened as the Indians had envisaged. The Americans haven't even been able to place Pakistan on FATF blacklist. Something the Modi regime has been yearning for. Basically disappointment from the Indian side. After 27th India was hoping for full support from its ally, but it did not come. The Americans responded lukewarm and even dispelled the notion that F-16s were missing. Trump has gone to extreme length to protect economy. The Indians were expecting a lot of concessions like in previous years under Obama.
Politics are a definite consideration.

Indians would pick 'political independence' over the need to 'outfight PAF by any means necessary', and this is actually a good thing.

Foreign entities are ultimate beneficiaries of distant conflicts. All need to realize this.

It is the fate of Pakistan and India on the line, not that of others.
 
Hi,

Here is what I would like to share---. The indians are not idiots---let me repeat it one more time---indians are not idiots---.

By going with the F16 BLK70---they would have alowed the US to take control of their offensive fighting capabilities---and no sane nation would do something like that unless it is Pakistan air force---.

The indians weighed the pluses and minuses of the F16 to the Tejas and assessed that a properly upgraded Tejas is not too fat behind the F16 BLK 70 or the F21---as it is tagged to be---.

India cannot be and will not be dictated what the US orders in a time of crisis---.

Bottomline---india will hardly lose sleep over this non issue at this time---.

And PAF is still dying to get their hands on more F-16s 70/72.
 
That is an even a bigger slap in the face of Indian ally US. The Americans claim that the F-21 would have incorporated 5th gen tech. Despite these lofty claims the IAF simply ditched the F-21 offer. Did the IAF not buy the American claims? Ditching F-21 with 5th gen tech for something like LCA is not a small thing. If we are to believe American claims the F-21 would have been an absolute killer fighter.

I am very glad that PAF started a JV with China. The PAF carefully selected the components and is able to produce the fighter to a very large extent domestically. The F-16 will eventually be phased out in coming years as more advanced versions of JF-17 and project Azm become available.

I think India also hopes it can emulate JF-17 export success. The American had a lot riding on F-21. After losing MMRCA tender the US was adamant to sell India its fighters.

I don't see how this is a big slap. IAF was heavily biased in favor of the Rafale. If this tender had not been cancelled, I can say with about 80% surety Rafale would have emerged the winner. Basically, they hardly had a chance of winning earlier(and they probably knew it) and obviously now that the tender has been cancelled, it's the same story. Are you suggesting they would have preferred losing to the Rafale rather than the tender being cancelled?

One Should take a bigger look to scheme of things. More than F-16/F-21, India Ditched US war against China as well. I strongly believe all this developments are sudden. Indian Govt. is now of the view that not many US companies are coming to India from China... During Bilateral talks as well India said many times to US that to rise against China/ rather than militarily India need to stand Economically as well.
Economics of F-16/F-21 was, American companies coming to India/ditching China.. India gets financial edge and Start buying their Weapons.. No companies/No weapons.
But this may change Once Donald Trump lost second term.
This pattern is taken up by All US allies in Pacific except Australia. Neither Seoul NOR Tokyo is against Bejing untill Trump is their in the US.
China keeps earning from The US companies, and we buying Weapons is Just stupid strategy.

You are over-examining the whole thing. What happened is that some guy somewhere at a bat, resulted in a pandemic and the pandemic situation reduced our budget and now we have no choice but to go for a domestic fighter, simple as that. Govt possibly cant justify spending 16 billion dollars in such times. At the same time, the airforce need is real. The only solution was to go with LCA.
 
I don't see how this is a big slap. IAF was heavily biased in favor of the Rafale. If this tender had not been cancelled, I can say with about 80% surety Rafale would have emerged the winner. Basically, they hardly had a chance of winning earlier(and they probably knew it) and obviously now that the tender has been cancelled, it's the same story. Are you suggesting they would have preferred losing to the Rafale rather than the tender being cancelled?



You are over-examining the whole thing. What happened is that some guy somewhere at a bat, resulted in a pandemic and the pandemic situation reduced our budget and now we have no choice but to go for a domestic fighter, simple as that. Govt possibly cant justify spending 16 billion dollars in such times. At the same time, the airforce need is real. The only solution was to go with LCA.

There is no over examination. F-21 was touted as an excellent fighter with 5th gen tech capability. It is only fair to ask why IAF did not opt for it. Also given that India is a front state ally of US against China it makes sense for India to buy US made fighters. Especially when the Americans are also providing all other kinds of hardware to India.
 

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