vi-va
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2019
- Messages
- 6,475
- Reaction score
- 3
- Country
- Location
Robin Daverman's answer to Has Mao Zedong been the victim of superficial propaganda that vilified him excessively?
Has Mao Zedong been the victim of superficial propaganda that vilified him excessively?
In 1947, LIFE magazine employed a young American reporter, Jack Birns, to Shanghai to report on China’s civil war. Shanghai, at that time, was like a heaven: this one city is far, far, richer than the rest of China. It had 4 million residents and consumed half of the total electricity generated in China. Half. And the expats were indeed having a reasonably good time in Shanghai, as photographed by Jack Birns. Here is a photo of an expat with Chinese girls.
And not far away, here is a city sanitary worker picking up trash. Also photographed by Jack Birns.
Yes, that was a dead child you see there. Starved to death. And here is a newspaper article on Oct. 27, 1940, reporting that the night temperature dropped to 39.9 degrees fahrenheit, which was about 4.5 degrees celsius, which resulted in 74 people frozen to death in one of the Shanghai districts. Just one of the districts. Half of China is north of Shanghai.
And here is the photograph Jack Birns took, of the execution of suspected communist sympathizers. The photograph was never published, of course, because the owner of the LIFE magazine, Henry Luce, was a devoted anti-communist and did not want to show the KMT government committing atrocities.
You think this is bad? NOOOOO, this was what heaven looked like in China in 1947, in the richest city, the one tiny spot of China that consumed half of the total electricity generation in China. On only 4 million residents. What about the other 500 million Chinese?
The head of the International Famine Relief Commission estimated that 3 - 7 million Chinese die of famine every year. The Northwest China famine, 1928-1930 Driven by starvation, people resorted to cannibalism. China’s population grew from 430 million in 1850 to 580 million in 1953. China's Demographic Evolution 1850-1953 Reconsidered That’s an annual population growth rate of < 0.3% a year, in an age with no contraception and everybody was having 6+ kids. (BTW, by the time Mao died in 1976, China’s population had reached 930 million, grew by 350 million in 21 years, that’s a growth rate of ~ 3%. Compare this with the previous 100 years, and you’ll get the real total death rate of the previous century in China, which would be around 15 million a year.)
You think this is bad? NOOOOO, if you go to China’s countryside, you will often see something like this
I ran across this photo on the internet. It’s a tombstone issued by the government in praise of a young girl’s good virtue. Her name was not on the tombstone, because girls didn’t have names. Her fiance died before the wedding, so her family carried her to her fiance’s house, had her stood on top of his coffin, strangled her, and put her inside the coffin, to be buried with her fiance, the man she had never seen, never met, never known in life. On the back of the tombstone are the names of the male relatives of her family and her fiance’s family, etched in stone as a perpetual sign of great virtue.
How does this compare with Afghanistan? with Pakistan? With Saudi Arabia?
This was the China that Mao took over. 80% illiterate. 35 years of average life expectancy, and GDP per capita was $52 in 1952. Historical GDP of China And if the men got a bit of money, the first thing they’d want to do was to open his own opium den and go buy himself a 12-year-old concubine.
Mao changed all that in a most profound way, despite 21 years of the most comprehensive Western embargo. 400 categories of products, including medicine, farming, and fishing equipment, were under embargo from 1950 to 1971. Without the fertilizers, Chinese farm yield was abysmally low. Without the medicine, the Chinese was under constant threat of small pox, malaria, and the plague. U.S. Ends Ban on China Trade This was what Mao had in his hands. He started with clearing the country of bandits and opium, trained peasants on basic healthcare, and implemented universal, compulsory education. The government has the obligation to educate, and all children, boy or girl, have the obligation to learn, period.
This is the first set of China’s currency issued in 1960, featuring the first woman tractor driver.
Today China has women astronauts,
fighter jet pilots,
SWAT teams,
billionaires, China is home to two-thirds of the world’s self-made female billionaires
construction workers,
and Nobel Prize winners.
Generals, admirals, politicians, CEOs, firefighters. There is literally no job in China that people think women can’t do. This is the same people that a mere 70 years ago bound women’s feet and refused to let women go outside of their homes, wouldn’t even bother giving girls their own names. Foot binding Mao didn’t just change the country. He changed the people.
But these individual examples are not as important as the overall statistics here: China has one of the highest women labor participation rate, and one of the highest rate of education for women.
So this is the way Mao understood Women’s Liberation: It’s not about clothes, not about sex, not about additional protection, not about some guy opening doors for ladies, but about strength - the strength of knowledge, of professional careers, of independence, of character, so that a woman can run her own life, and tell even the Pope himself to go f*ck off if she so desires. This, is Liberation.
And here is the thing about Mao: a lot of the stuff he did, nobody else has been able to do, even today, 40 years after he died. What I wrote here, is just a tiny little corner of his work. So you think you can do what Mao did easily? Well congratulations, we have just the right little problem for you to solve. Afghanistan is 100 times richer and the people healthier and more educated than China was in 1950. The country has only 30 million people, instead of 600 million. There is no embargo. Instead, there is a lot of financial aid. You want to go try your hands? NATO has been there for 15 years, what do they have to show for it? War is still going on. Opium production is at all-time high. Women walk around in tents. And little boys are still being f*cked in the arse. Bacha bazi So go. Go there and make it into another China. Show us what you can do. Show us you can do what Mao did without the loss of a single life. Show us you can do better. Or try Iraq. Or South Sudan. Or Yemen. All of these countries are hundreds of times better than China was in 1950.
So going back to the original question, is Mao vilified excessively. I can only say this: he had done great things, and he had done quite a few things wrong. He did not do many favors to the West, but he was very straight forward and truthful about it. He didn’t lie about it. He didn’t steal. He didn’t pretend friendship. He didn’t kiss ***. Neither did he intend to harm any people or any other country. He intended to modernize China, and even more, modernize the Chinese people. He wanted to do those things that would benefit the Chinese people for the next hundreds of generations. He would have laughed at any vilification from foreigners, and thought he must be doing something right. He would not have liked the vilification from the Chinese people, but he would have ground his teeth and trudged on, if he were convinced that this was what China needed for the next 1,000 years.
PS: I want to reply to some of the comments regarding Mao’s faults. He had a lot of those too, the most glaring being a weakness for pseudoscience and sycophancy. But that’s not the question being asked here. And I doubt anybody can write a comprehensive review of Mao on Quora. It’ll be too big.
But the point I want to make is not about Mao. It’s about the fact that some aspect of “tradition” or “culture” or “religion” is harmful, and people who espouse those are just plain wrong, and most of the current crop of political leaders are pussyfooting about it, unwilling to deal with the fact that in certain places, it’s the PEOPLE themselves that need to be modernized. Any tradition or culture or religion the keep 50% of a country’s productivity off the table, or keep 50% of the brain power off the grid, can not possibly compete with other countries. Mao and the CCP were willing to deal with it and re-shape the culture to the right path. The other politicians today are willing to put up with medieval culture as long as it’s called “tradition” or “culture” or religion”, and this is going to keep the society down for the next millennium.Some things benefit the society if they live in a museum, and harm the society if they live in real life.
www.quora.com
Has Mao Zedong been the victim of superficial propaganda that vilified him excessively?
This question is too big. I can only show you a tiny little corner of Mao’s work.
In 1947, LIFE magazine employed a young American reporter, Jack Birns, to Shanghai to report on China’s civil war. Shanghai, at that time, was like a heaven: this one city is far, far, richer than the rest of China. It had 4 million residents and consumed half of the total electricity generated in China. Half. And the expats were indeed having a reasonably good time in Shanghai, as photographed by Jack Birns. Here is a photo of an expat with Chinese girls.
And not far away, here is a city sanitary worker picking up trash. Also photographed by Jack Birns.
Yes, that was a dead child you see there. Starved to death. And here is a newspaper article on Oct. 27, 1940, reporting that the night temperature dropped to 39.9 degrees fahrenheit, which was about 4.5 degrees celsius, which resulted in 74 people frozen to death in one of the Shanghai districts. Just one of the districts. Half of China is north of Shanghai.
And here is the photograph Jack Birns took, of the execution of suspected communist sympathizers. The photograph was never published, of course, because the owner of the LIFE magazine, Henry Luce, was a devoted anti-communist and did not want to show the KMT government committing atrocities.
You think this is bad? NOOOOO, this was what heaven looked like in China in 1947, in the richest city, the one tiny spot of China that consumed half of the total electricity generation in China. On only 4 million residents. What about the other 500 million Chinese?
The head of the International Famine Relief Commission estimated that 3 - 7 million Chinese die of famine every year. The Northwest China famine, 1928-1930 Driven by starvation, people resorted to cannibalism. China’s population grew from 430 million in 1850 to 580 million in 1953. China's Demographic Evolution 1850-1953 Reconsidered That’s an annual population growth rate of < 0.3% a year, in an age with no contraception and everybody was having 6+ kids. (BTW, by the time Mao died in 1976, China’s population had reached 930 million, grew by 350 million in 21 years, that’s a growth rate of ~ 3%. Compare this with the previous 100 years, and you’ll get the real total death rate of the previous century in China, which would be around 15 million a year.)
You think this is bad? NOOOOO, if you go to China’s countryside, you will often see something like this
I ran across this photo on the internet. It’s a tombstone issued by the government in praise of a young girl’s good virtue. Her name was not on the tombstone, because girls didn’t have names. Her fiance died before the wedding, so her family carried her to her fiance’s house, had her stood on top of his coffin, strangled her, and put her inside the coffin, to be buried with her fiance, the man she had never seen, never met, never known in life. On the back of the tombstone are the names of the male relatives of her family and her fiance’s family, etched in stone as a perpetual sign of great virtue.
How does this compare with Afghanistan? with Pakistan? With Saudi Arabia?
This was the China that Mao took over. 80% illiterate. 35 years of average life expectancy, and GDP per capita was $52 in 1952. Historical GDP of China And if the men got a bit of money, the first thing they’d want to do was to open his own opium den and go buy himself a 12-year-old concubine.
Mao changed all that in a most profound way, despite 21 years of the most comprehensive Western embargo. 400 categories of products, including medicine, farming, and fishing equipment, were under embargo from 1950 to 1971. Without the fertilizers, Chinese farm yield was abysmally low. Without the medicine, the Chinese was under constant threat of small pox, malaria, and the plague. U.S. Ends Ban on China Trade This was what Mao had in his hands. He started with clearing the country of bandits and opium, trained peasants on basic healthcare, and implemented universal, compulsory education. The government has the obligation to educate, and all children, boy or girl, have the obligation to learn, period.
This is the first set of China’s currency issued in 1960, featuring the first woman tractor driver.
Today China has women astronauts,
fighter jet pilots,
SWAT teams,
billionaires, China is home to two-thirds of the world’s self-made female billionaires
construction workers,
and Nobel Prize winners.
Generals, admirals, politicians, CEOs, firefighters. There is literally no job in China that people think women can’t do. This is the same people that a mere 70 years ago bound women’s feet and refused to let women go outside of their homes, wouldn’t even bother giving girls their own names. Foot binding Mao didn’t just change the country. He changed the people.
But these individual examples are not as important as the overall statistics here: China has one of the highest women labor participation rate, and one of the highest rate of education for women.
So this is the way Mao understood Women’s Liberation: It’s not about clothes, not about sex, not about additional protection, not about some guy opening doors for ladies, but about strength - the strength of knowledge, of professional careers, of independence, of character, so that a woman can run her own life, and tell even the Pope himself to go f*ck off if she so desires. This, is Liberation.
And here is the thing about Mao: a lot of the stuff he did, nobody else has been able to do, even today, 40 years after he died. What I wrote here, is just a tiny little corner of his work. So you think you can do what Mao did easily? Well congratulations, we have just the right little problem for you to solve. Afghanistan is 100 times richer and the people healthier and more educated than China was in 1950. The country has only 30 million people, instead of 600 million. There is no embargo. Instead, there is a lot of financial aid. You want to go try your hands? NATO has been there for 15 years, what do they have to show for it? War is still going on. Opium production is at all-time high. Women walk around in tents. And little boys are still being f*cked in the arse. Bacha bazi So go. Go there and make it into another China. Show us what you can do. Show us you can do what Mao did without the loss of a single life. Show us you can do better. Or try Iraq. Or South Sudan. Or Yemen. All of these countries are hundreds of times better than China was in 1950.
So going back to the original question, is Mao vilified excessively. I can only say this: he had done great things, and he had done quite a few things wrong. He did not do many favors to the West, but he was very straight forward and truthful about it. He didn’t lie about it. He didn’t steal. He didn’t pretend friendship. He didn’t kiss ***. Neither did he intend to harm any people or any other country. He intended to modernize China, and even more, modernize the Chinese people. He wanted to do those things that would benefit the Chinese people for the next hundreds of generations. He would have laughed at any vilification from foreigners, and thought he must be doing something right. He would not have liked the vilification from the Chinese people, but he would have ground his teeth and trudged on, if he were convinced that this was what China needed for the next 1,000 years.
PS: I want to reply to some of the comments regarding Mao’s faults. He had a lot of those too, the most glaring being a weakness for pseudoscience and sycophancy. But that’s not the question being asked here. And I doubt anybody can write a comprehensive review of Mao on Quora. It’ll be too big.
But the point I want to make is not about Mao. It’s about the fact that some aspect of “tradition” or “culture” or “religion” is harmful, and people who espouse those are just plain wrong, and most of the current crop of political leaders are pussyfooting about it, unwilling to deal with the fact that in certain places, it’s the PEOPLE themselves that need to be modernized. Any tradition or culture or religion the keep 50% of a country’s productivity off the table, or keep 50% of the brain power off the grid, can not possibly compete with other countries. Mao and the CCP were willing to deal with it and re-shape the culture to the right path. The other politicians today are willing to put up with medieval culture as long as it’s called “tradition” or “culture” or religion”, and this is going to keep the society down for the next millennium.Some things benefit the society if they live in a museum, and harm the society if they live in real life.
Has Mao Zedong been the victim of superficial propaganda that vilified him excessively?
Robin Daverman's answer: > Has Mao Zedong been the victim of superficial propaganda that vilified him excessively? This question is too big. I can only show you a tiny little corner of Mao’s work. In 1947, LIFE magazine employed a young American reporter, Jack Birns, to Shanghai to report on Ch...
