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Invading Pakistan? The Worst Idea Yet

the dynamics of geo-politics and war have changed tremendously. Are the US not helped by the Indians, French, UK, Germany, Australia etc for thr PUSUIT OF POLITICAL GOALS? what makes u think that in s goat muck of such epic proportions, the Chinese, and Russians will not wanna have some fun? it will be in the interest of china and russia (and iran) to see US bruised and bloody, think before u speak, ur national pride is at stake when u say something stupid on an international forum :chilli::rofl::lol:

I wont mind loosing some pride on a forum by speaking truth but certainly mind losing pride in real time situations unlike you.
Best of luck internet warrier, you just nuked the US with your sleeper cells. What a pride adder you are to your nation.:cheers:
 
Nice post and agree with you cent percent, but bro, i was asking for ur solutions in connection to such an event where we are attacked, ur getting derailed here.

we all agree that Pakistan must progress on all the facets hi-lighted by you , but they are beyond the scope of this present disscussion.

Im merely asking u for a solution about the US bringing cannons to our doors, what are ur suggestions pertaining to that, since u do agree that such an event may be on US strategic drawing boards?
What do you think we can do? We will fight (defend our nation) but every sane person knows the result.

Also, our economy is in very bad shape. How long do you think our military will last? A week at most? This is what most intelligence officers told me.

On the contrary; US can afford to spend over 500 billion dollars on annual basis to fund its military force.

Secondly, the US is suffering immnsely from internal problems. Do u know that 9 trillion dollars were found to be missing from the US Federal reserves, they are investigating the problem but are clueless as to what has happened to this money.

Some other problems in the US

1. Drugs

2. Russian, Mexican, Italian cartels disturbing economy. Their cheif businesses include smuggling of all kinds.

3. Highly dependent on fossil fuel, to the extent that when pirates in the niger delta strike an oil rig, the US gets very concerned, even though it only reveices around 800,000 barrels of oil from that source per day. The ongoing rift with Iran and Venezuella is acting as a slow poison to devalue the dollar.

4. Severe job cuts with no plausible life line. Corporate giants like DHL sacking 4000 employees. Kodak, Chyrsler, Delta, Leman Brothers, Enron, Worldcom all once contributing to the massive economic engine have either collapsed or going that way. 8.4 million overall jobs losses!

5. I dont even want to go the the civil and social degradation.

6. Lack of sync between Us military cammand and white house, we all know the McCrystal fiasco. Lowest ever military recruitemets. The US is also considering drafts.

7. NATO countries don't want to support US in their on going wars. The French president Sarkozy went to the extent of saying that the NATO is only serving US interests and whether they even need NATO anymore since USSR.

8.The infrastructure losses struck by the natural disasters have still not been recovered.

9. High interest rates, combined with high inflation equates to an economic collapse, dollar collapse.

10. The EU already recognizes the US as a dying empire. Europeans Can't Be Bothered to Hate America - Newsweek

11. US$ 13 trillion national debt. the highest debt on any country. 2009 budet decifit was US$ 1.41 trillion!

12. Cost of ongoing wars on american coffers is $850 billion per year.

13. US gold reserves is $350 billion, as compared to that, their $ 1 quadrillion in the financial system. :lol::lol:

14. UN suggested in 2010 that a new reserve currency system must be immedietly created as the dollar is no more a stable crieteria store for value.

You still need more evidence bro? I dont want to bore our esteemed forum members. cheers mate!
:usflag::hang2::hang2::hang2:
:pakistan:
You are going off-topic here. America is a huge nation and understandably such big nations have complex history of affairs.

Also, every nation has its bad days. US is in its 2nd recession, so situation will not look so gloomy over there.

Point 1:

Problem in every society. Not a breaking news.

Point 2:

Smuggling did not caused US economic recession. Useless point.

Point 3:

Actually US economic recovery methods may devalue dollar for a while but it will recover later on, as per US recovery officials. (Hint: Quantitative Easing Programs)

Want proof?

Fed Seeks U.S. Dollar Devaluation to Reflate the Economy

Global Financial Strategy - Yellen defends US asset buying programme

On the contrary, even China does not wants US dollar to devalue.

Here;

China UPSET with US Dollar Devaluation Congressman Burton | Finance News

Seriously, you want US dollar to collapse? Imagine its impact.

In addition, US is a big industrial power; Hence, so much consumption of fossil fuel.

Even China's fossil fuel consumption is surging due to rapid expansion of its industry;

Global Fossil Fuel Consumption Surges

China's projected fossil fuel use 'shocking' - Washington Times

Point 4:

I am not surprised. Companies are trying to cut down their expenses in turbulent times. This is natural response. Once, the recovery process will pick pace, new jobs will be created.

Point 5:

And this is not happening in Pakistan?

Point 6:

Lack of sync or a sign of disciplinary measure? A US general gave objectionable remarks about an institution he serves and that led to his ouster. In other words, the government tried to correct this 'lack of sync' that you speak off.

Show me an example like this from Pakistan. The lack of discipline is plaguing our nation since its inception.

Remember Quaid's 3 point advice: Unity | Faith | Discipline

Check of discipline in America: ACCOMPLISHED TASK

Point 7:

Really? What is NATO doing in Afghanistan than? Playing poker?

Judge things from what you see and not just from what you hear.

And NATO is a result of unity among European nations. It was formed to prevent potential wars among them and to counter external threats to them.

Their is always strength in UNITY. Something the Islamic nations need to understand.

Remember Quaid's 3 point advice: Unity | Faith | Discipline

Check of unity in America and Europe: ACCOMPLISHED TASK

Point 8:

Again! Recovery from natural disasters takes time.

New Orleans five years later

Do you think that Pakistan has fully recovered from impact of Earthquakes and Floods? It has not.

Point 9:

Yeah right! It is not happening. Get out from your doomsday clock machine. Hardworking people in USA are doing their best to overcome all issues. Give them props for their efforts.

Point 10:

Much to the dismay of European Union:

Index of US economic health picks up | Reuters

Asian Stocks Rise on U.S. Economic Recovery; Honda Advances - Businessweek

Gold falls as improved US economic outlook curbs demand - Hindustan Times

FOREX-Dollar up broadly as economic data fuels bullish bets | Reuters

Forex - Dollar extends gains vs. rivals on U.S. recovery optimism By ForexPros.com

What do these reports tell you?

BREAKING NEWS for doomsday fans: US economy is now showing signs of recovery

While others plan; Americans also plan.

And recession is not limited to US. Many other nations have been hit by it (including Pakistan).

Do you know that why Chinese goods are cheap? Because of artificially undervalued Yuan. However, US is planning to impose penalties on countries that manipulate their currencies and China is in the list.

Mark my words: Yuan will not remain devalued for long and Chinese goods will not stay cheap for long either.

As I stated above:

While others plan; Americans also plan.

Point 11:

Yes! This is an issue.

Once the economic recession is over; focus will automatically shift towards debt.

Here is hint:

IMF Survey: U.S. Economy Recovering, Debt And Unemployment Next Challenges

Point 12:

The cost of wars are high indeed.

However, situation has changed in spending in Iraq:

warcosts.jpg


GOOD NEWS: Iraqi occupation is going to end soon.

Balance is being maintained.

Point 13:

HINT: Value of Gold and secrecy in US about it.

Official statistics here: US Gold - About Gold: World Gold Holdings

US has the largest GOLD reserves in the world.

Point 14:

UN - You've got to be kidding me?

America has VETO power in UN. And European Union is opposed to this suggestion.
 
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I wont mind loosing some pride on a forum by speaking truth but certainly mind losing pride in real time situations unlike you.
Best of luck internet warrier, you just nuked the US with your sleeper cells. What a pride adder you are to your nation.:cheers:

Well that was just meant to be a hypothetical simplistic analogy especially aimed at u, keeping in mind ur low IQ levels but if u want to beleive thats wats exactly going to happen, be my guest :chilli:

if it were only Your pride on the line, it would be okay, but wat i said was that your NATIONAL PRIDE ison the line wen u blurt out such statements, but i guess ur ego isnt letting u think beyong urself. :oops:

Anyways, coming from a half breed like u, i'll take it as a compliment, drink to that:cheers: :rofl:
 
What do you think we can do? We will fight (defend our nation) but every sane person knows the result.

Exactly my point! Im not an advocate of war either, so dont potray me as one. I KNOW WHAT WAR IS ABOUT, FIRST HAND. Nations fight with honour and courage, at te end of the day, thats wat defines the victor, case in point, Pakistan in 1965, Vietnam, Afghanistan Presently and in the 1980s. ofcourse technology matters, but thats not the soul determinant. ASSYMETRIC WARFARE.

Also, our economy is in very bad shape. How long do you think our military will last? A week at most? This is what most intelligence officers told me.

Why are u even comparing US economy with ours? is that even debteable? u said that the US is strong and will sustain, so i justpointed out a few factors. I don'tknow what intel officers ur talking to. war is not such a zero-sum-game after all.

On the contrary; US can afford to spend over 500 billion dollars on annual basis to fund its military force.

Till when??? it certainly doesnt seem so in the case of the present campaigns

You are going off-topic here. American internal problems our not ours. It is a huge nation and understandably such big nations have complex history of affairs.

I said that the US will self diintegrate, so obviosly Im going to pint out the internalcancrs aswell. These combined with all war mongering will pull donw the US in the time to come.

Also, every nation has its bad days. US is in its 2nd recession, so situation will not look so gloomy over there.

I have freinds and relatives in the US aswell bro, they dont paint such a comforting picture. One vry wel knwon US based Pakistani Economst is Professor Shahid Alam. please red one of his books or atleast some of his articles

Point 1:

Problem in every society. Not a breaking news.

I knowthat its a problem plauging evry soiety, but again, since u asked how i think the US is venerable, i pointedout, no comparisions being made by me.talk of the US in isolation, why are u comparing? btw who do u think is the biggest consumer of opium based dugs in the world. i'll give u a hint... :usflag:

Point 2:

Smuggling did not caused US economic recession. Useless point.

there u go asuming again.... i nversaid that smuggling caused US economic recesion. but it is definately one of their biggset problems eating at the heart of the mighty super power. so not so useless :azn:

Point 3:

Actually US economic recovery methods may devalue dollar for a while but it will recover later on, as per US recovery officials. (Hint: Quantitative Easing Programs)

thats NEVER going to happen. the dynamics for such a change, creating a deliberate deficit, just wnt cutit for the US. this model is not efficient or a credit based bubble economy. Japan has beneftd from it in the past, but not the US.

Want proof?

Fed Seeks U.S. Dollar Devaluation to Reflate the Economy

Global Financial Strategy - Yellen defends US asset buying programme

i could give u double the amount of links repudiating thes articles, but we cn all do our own googling

On the contrary, even China does not wants US dollar to devalue.

Here;

China UPSET with US Dollar Devaluation Congressman Burton | Finance News

Seriously, you want US dollar to collapse? Imagine its impact.

In addition, US is a big industrial power; Hence, so much consumption of fossil fuel.

Even China's fossil fuel consumption is surging due to rapid expansion of its industry;

YES! but China is rapidly stretegizing to meet these demands. China has built energy based tiesa and rlationswith the Middle East, Sudan, and CIS. it is wiling to b a partner with the iran pipeline aswell, the Chinese have also brockered agreat deal with the Russians to feed 10% of chiese total energy rquiremenst. thats wat will sustain China!! :china: not unlike US, that only wants to usurp natutral resources of other countrie through war! US energy strategy is failing, but CHINESE ARE SAILING. [/B]

Global Fossil Fuel Consumption Surges

China's projected fossil fuel use 'shocking' - Washington Times

AGAI i can give u many article supporting my PoV

Point 4:

I am not surprised. Companies are trying to cut down their expenses in turbulent times. This is natural response. Once, the recovery process will pick pace, new jobs will be created.

The thing is that there is a difference between 'trying to cut down expences' & 'having no choice other than cuttng down onxpences. Thats th difference. btw job cuts are making the US citizen very frustated and angry, Im forseeing some serious strikes and protests, something the US is not tuned to witness. thats going to add to there problems

Point 5:

And this is not happening in Pakistan?

sorry, not to the exent to which it is happening in the west. AGAINNOT COMPARING only pointingout US problem

Point 6:

Lack of sync or a sign of disciplinary measure? A US general gave objectionable remarks about an institution he serves and that led to his ouster. In other words, the government tried to correct this 'lack of sync' that you speak off.

you can laud it as discipline, but the tryth is the folksat the white house got pissd off wen somebody told tht that their trategy aint worth carrots. its a simple case of 'im the king and u dare not say no to me syndrome' some discipline!! US forces are killing eachother in afghanistan due to petty disputes. THAT NEVER HAPPENED IN Pakistan armed forces!!

Show me an example like this from Pakistan. The lack of discipline is plaguing our nation since its inception.

agreed, we must work to correct this bro.


Point 7:

Really? What is NATO doing in Afghanistan than? Playing poker?
many NATO countries have pulled out of Afghanistan based on this issue and mor want to get out! google recent rearks of brit PM and th 1ST EVER REMARK MADEBY THEI NEW ARMY CHEIF ; I GONNA GETMY BOY OUT! no big news...

Judge things from what you see and not just from what you hear.

Have u been to the moon? i guess not, so how do u judge things about it? btw JUGDEMENT is a culminationofall sensory inputs, not restricted to only 'seeing' or 'hearing' and what was that people say about 'seeing is beleiving' :no:

And NATO is a result of unity among European nations. It was formed to prevent potential wars among them and to counter external threats to them.

correction, NATO'S inception was mainly to counter USSR in the cold war days. thats whats sarkozy's arguement also stem from. i know a lil Internationl Relationsas well bro

Their is always strength in UNITY. Something the Islamic nations need to understand.

Remember Quaid's 3 point advice: Unity | Faith | Discipline

Agreed, May ALLAH give the Ummah strength through unity, ameen. history is rife wih exmples wen unity originated from trumultous times, may we be faced with such times even more, nshaAllah we will nite under pressure as foretold by Allama Iqbal, surely u cant debate his prolific intellect?

Point 8:

Again! Recovery from natural disasters takes time.

again, not comparing, onlypointing out that a super power is in shambles and cant do anything about it, accounts to self oblteration. could give u more links


Do you think that Pakistan has fully recovered from impact of Earthquakes and Floods? It has not.

Nee said orimplied that, and for crying out loud, wen did i compare the US with PAKISTAN??????

Point 9:

Yeah right! It is not happening. Get out from your doomsday clock machine. Hardworking people in USA are doing their best to overcome all issues. Give them props for their efforts.

I have utmost regard or hard orking decent amercicans, sadly they are being led to a catastrophicend due to their neo con plicy makers. if onlu kenedy were alive, these a55 hole neo cons wold have been exposed.

Point 10:

Much to the dismay of European Union:

Index of US economic health picks up | Reuters

Asian Stocks Rise on U.S. Economic Recovery; Honda Advances - Businessweek

Gold falls as improved US economic outlook curbs demand - Hindustan Times

FOREX-Dollar up broadly as economic data fuels bullish bets | Reuters

Forex - Dollar extends gains vs. rivals on U.S. recovery optimism By ForexPros.com

What do these reports tell you?

these rpor tell me that this bovine poop 'feel-good' talk wont be enough to dispel this rcovery myth. Ma article to counter these myths. please google urself


While others plan; Americans also plan.

And recession is not limited to US. Many other nations have been hit by it (including Pakistan).

compring US and Pakistan repeatitively, MODS please include a FACE PALM SMILEY! till the time ill use this :hitwall: Other counris are not fighting expansiv wars with no end and neither ar they ating as bullies and challaging the sovreignty of other smaller weaker nations. theres a difference!

Do you know that why Chinese goods are cheap? Because of artificially undervalued Yuan. However, US is planning to impose penalties on countries that manipulate their currencies and China is in the list.

WOOHO good luck with that AMERICA!! as if the chinese gonna play by US rules. 5th coulmn farce at its best. thats the whole problem, with america, its ok if they do it but if someelse does it, they wanna send their battle gruops to the nearest seas.
sounds like another boston tea party


Mark my words: Yuan will not remain devalued for long and Chinese goods will not stay cheap for long either.

cheap labour costs..... are we forgetting someting here?


Point 11:

Yes! This is an issue.

Once the economic recession is over; focus will automatically shift towards debt.

good we agreeon something bro :) this alone is a tribulation, which makes the US sh!t bricks

Point 12:

The cost of wars are high indeed.

However, situation has changed in spending in Iraq:

warcosts.jpg


GOOD NEWS: Iraqi occupation is going to end soon.

Balance is being maintained.

You called istalling a puppet regime with secterian violence 'MAINTAINACE OF BALANCE?? btw Muqtadaal Sadr just returned to Irag from his oneyr exile in Iran, oops!! ROYAL PAIN IN THE US REAR END

Point 13:

HINT: Value of Gold and secrecy in US about it.

Official statistics here: US Gold - About Gold: World Gold Holdings

US has the largest GOLD reserves in the world.

may be the largest gold reserve but is it enough? there is no semblance in their reservs vs currency ratio. sorry not enough to rebut this problem.

Point 14:

UN - You've got to be kidding me?

America has VETO power in UN. And European Union is opposed to this suggestion.

so?? are u saying that the UN can say anything that go against the US?? Facts are facts bro, wethr someone likes it or not, google and ye shall find

Legend, ur concrns about Pakistan ar genuine, thats great bro, but the crux of the matter remains the same. PAKISTAN WILL NOT COW DOWN IN THE FACE OF US AGGRESSION!!

Pakistan Zindabad, Afwaaj e Pakistan PAINDABAAD!!!
 
i just remembered Holbroks last word before hekicked the bucket....

STOP THE WAR IN AFGHANISTAN

:hang2::rofl::hang2::rofl::hang2::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Exactly my point! Im not an advocate of war either, so dont potray me as one. I KNOW WHAT WAR IS ABOUT, FIRST HAND. Nations fight with honour and courage, at te end of the day, thats wat defines the victor, case in point, Pakistan in 1965, Vietnam, Afghanistan Presently and in the 1980s. ofcourse technology matters, but thats not the soul determinant. ASSYMETRIC WARFARE.
You are twisting my points.

Question is can Pakistan protect its interests against the might of the USA and survive?

Answer is NO. We do not have resources and nor the economy.

Assymetric wafare? What a joke.

Can you explain to me that how the remnants of Pakistani forces (if they survive the SHOCK and AWE offensive) will conduct assymetric warfare in USA?

9/11 event was a demonstration of assymetric warfare from Al-Qaeda group against USA and afterwards, the latter group found itself on the recieving end.

Since the WOT commenced; the Al-Qaeda network has been disrupted; OBL is on the run; large number of its fighters have been killed; and suppression of this group continues.

What you need to realize is that as long as we cannot harm the continental US; we will be on the receiving end of the conflict.

Regarding Pakistan in 1965:

Here is the bigger picture: After three weeks of warfare both countries agreed to a UN-sponsored ceasefire.

This is irrelevant example; Pakistani forces will be overwhelmed by the technologically superior forces of the USA within a matter of days.

Heck, Americans do not even need to send boots to Pakistan to destroy our nation. HINT: Long range weapons

Regarding Vietnam:

Another dumb example corresponding to completely different circumstances. Here;

Vietnam's territory is filled with forests and rivers. And Vietnamese have massive expertise in jungle warfare. The invading forces cannot conduct mechanized military raids in regions other than cities.

Also, Vietnamese resistance was supported and heavily armed by Soviet Union and China during its struggle against America. However, America returned the favor to Soviet Union in Afghanistan through similar tactics.

Vietnam posits an entirely different kind of military challenge to any potential foe with respect to Pakistan.

Also, Vietnam conflict caused a revolution in American approach to conduct warfare. And the performance of American war machine stunned the entire world in the America's next big conflict; the infamous Persian Gulf War: The 4th largest military in the world (based upon Russian doctrines) was decimated within a span of just 45 days.

Regarding Afghanistan:

How many US major military bases have been overrun by Taliban? Have Taliban captured Kabul? The Bagram Airbase; the staging point of all NATO military operations in Afghanistan is still intact.

This war is not yet over. We should reserve our judgements till 2014.

Also, you overlooked this;


Pakistan army and American army; both sides have made significant gains against Taliban within their theatre of operations.

Why are u even comparing US economy with ours? is that even debteable? u said that the US is strong and will sustain, so i justpointed out a few factors. I don'tknow what intel officers ur talking to. war is not such a zero-sum-game after all.
Because economy matters. Do you think that our economy can sustain a prolonged conflict with the most powerful nation on Earth? Wake up!

Till when??? it certainly doesnt seem so in the case of the present campaigns
Here;

us_vs_world.gif


Do the math. A year is more than enough time to decimate an entire nation.

Have you forgotten these words;

"The intelligence director told me that Mr Armitage said, 'Be prepared to be bombed. Be prepared to go back to the Stone Age'," he said. (revealed by Musharraf)

I said that the US will self diintegrate, so obviosly Im going to pint out the internalcancrs aswell. These combined with all war mongering will pull donw the US in the time to come.
This is your WET DREAM. I am not surpised.

We have underestimated our enemies before and FACTS speak for themselves today.

US will not attack Pakistan until its hands are free from more pressing matters; Iraq and Afghanistan. However, it has the option to use its strategic weapons at any given time.

US is on withdrawal phase from Iraq already. RESULT: War expenditure is decreasing. This move gave US the flexibility to prolong the conflict in Afghanistan till 2014.

Also, hypothetical US offensive against Pakistan can be a lot different than what we saw in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Even if we compare wars of Iraq and Afghanistan; Both of these wars were fought in a different manner and resources were also allocated differently for both.

In Iraq; US employed blitzkrieg strategy with overwhelming firepower.

In Afghanistan; US used combination of airpower and special forces to rout out Taliban from most important parts of the country. This paved way for the Northern Alliance forces to hold ground in regions around Afghanistan.

Americans first study the capabilities of their enemy and then plan their moves accordingly. They are highly experienced in the art of warfare and they do have big victories under their belt.

I have freinds and relatives in the US aswell bro, they dont paint such a comforting picture. One vry wel knwon US based Pakistani Economst is Professor Shahid Alam. please red one of his books or atleast some of his articles
I believe I have stated this before;

"Also, every nation has its bad days. US is in its 2nd recession, so situation will not look so gloomy over there."

And recession can have a demoralizing effect on people. And this is not the first time for the Americans. In addition, since 9/11; American muslims have been facing hardships as consequences.

More points addressed below.
 
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Well that was just meant to be a hypothetical simplistic analogy especially aimed at u, keeping in mind ur low IQ levels but if u want to beleive thats wats exactly going to happen, be my guest :chilli:

if it were only Your pride on the line, it would be okay, but wat i said was that your NATIONAL PRIDE ison the line wen u blurt out such statements, but i guess ur ego isnt letting u think beyong urself. :oops:

Anyways, coming from a half breed like u, i'll take it as a compliment, drink to that:cheers: :rofl:

Ohhhhh my national pride gone for a toss :hitwall:
just because some god of war says so:rofl::rofl:
 
I knowthat its a problem plauging evry soiety, but again, since u asked how i think the US is venerable, i pointedout, no comparisions being made by me.talk of the US in isolation, why are u comparing? btw who do u think is the biggest consumer of opium based dugs in the world. i'll give u a hint...
Drug consumption is an old phenomenon in USA.

Did this stopped America from making progress?

Did America stopped functioning as a society?

there u go asuming again.... i nversaid that smuggling caused US economic recesion. but it is definately one of their biggset problems eating at the heart of the mighty super power. so not so useless
Really? What do you think about Mexican drug war? As per your logic, Mexico should have been a failed state by now.

thats NEVER going to happen. the dynamics for such a change, creating a deliberate deficit, just wnt cutit for the US. this model is not efficient or a credit based bubble economy. Japan has beneftd from it in the past, but not the US.

i could give u double the amount of links repudiating thes articles, but we cn all do our own googling
You know better than FED about impact of its economic recovery measures on US dollar?

Yes! Their are critics of actions of FED but the criticism is based upon the fact that Quantitative Easing approach may devalue US dollar and several countries will suffer due to this. First try to understand what Quantitative Easing is and then respond.

YES! but China is rapidly stretegizing to meet these demands. China has built energy based tiesa and rlationswith the Middle East, Sudan, and CIS. it is wiling to b a partner with the iran pipeline aswell, the Chinese have also brockered agreat deal with the Russians to feed 10% of chiese total energy rquiremenst. thats wat will sustain China!! not unlike US, that only wants to usurp natutral resources of other countrie through war! US energy strategy is failing, but CHINESE ARE SAILING.
America is not suffering from energy crises. Also, what does this have to do with rapid increase in consumption of fossil fuel in China?

Your original point was that US is highly dependent upon fossil fuel. Do not worry! China is catching up first.

Want to see the big picture? Here;

carbon-dioxide-emissions-1965-2009-US-China.jpg


fossil-fuel-consumption-united-states-china.jpg


Source: In 2009, U.S. Led the World in Increases of Oil and Natural Gas Production; China Recorded the Greatest Increase in Energy Consumption and Emissions | Institute for Energy Research

So you think that China is not vulnerable to such high dependency upon fossil fuel?

Typical 'China is invincible' mentality? (No offense to my Chinese friends here; I am just being nuetral for this discussion)

AGAI i can give u many article supporting my PoV
Please try to convince me that how China would be less vulnerable than USA in case of massive dependency upon fossil fuel.

The thing is that there is a difference between 'trying to cut down expences' & 'having no choice other than cuttng down onxpences. Thats th difference. btw job cuts are making the US citizen very frustated and angry, Im forseeing some serious strikes and protests, something the US is not tuned to witness. thats going to add to there problems
Any company in the world (if going through turbulent times) would do what American companies did. Even in Pakistan, companies are engaging in cost cutting measures.

And the phenomenon of strikes and protests is not new for USA. Unlike in our case, people of the United States can make their feelings felt through their actions; The recent set back of the democrats in the mid term elections is an example of this.

In Pakistan, our majority continues to re-elect corrupt elements who continue to loot and plunder. A portion of the population resents this but does nothing to change the situation. How long will we last in this manner?

Your posts indicate that you are not well versed in history of USA.

sorry, not to the exent to which it is happening in the west. AGAINNOT COMPARING only pointingout US problem
You have no clue then. I will not go in to details here.

you can laud it as discipline, but the tryth is the folksat the white house got pissd off wen somebody told tht that their trategy aint worth carrots. its a simple case of 'im the king and u dare not say no to me syndrome' some discipline!! US forces are killing eachother in afghanistan due to petty disputes. THAT NEVER HAPPENED IN Pakistan armed forces!!
You will not understand. People over here have become accustomed to concept of one man show.

Military generals should never be in the position to belittle their superiors. The defence secretaries are their for a reason. Ever heard about boss is always right philosophy?

Read this;

President Barack Obama sacked his loose-lipped Afghanistan commander Wednesday, a seismic shift for the U.S. military order in wartime, and chose the familiar, admired — and tightly disciplined — Gen. David Petraeus to replace him. Petraeus, architect of the Iraq war turnaround, was once again to take hands-on leadership of a troubled war effort.

Their are always alternatives. Unrest within the echelons of power is never a good thing.

What has Pakistan gained from repeated military coups? Did our COAS proved to be better than our politicians?

Only Ayub was good in my eyes. The others were a big disappointment. Their actions had far reaching consequences for this nation.

many NATO countries have pulled out of Afghanistan based on this issue and mor want to get out! google recent rearks of brit PM and th 1ST EVER REMARK MADEBY THEI NEW ARMY CHEIF ; I GONNA GETMY BOY OUT! no big news...
You are suffering from MEDIA SYNDROME.

NATO will stay in Afghanistan until 2014. You want to learn about details of NATO mission in Afghanistan, check their official website.

However, withdrawal process is gradual; depending upon progress in development of ANA.

Have u been to the moon? i guess not, so how do u judge things about it? btw JUGDEMENT is a culminationofall sensory inputs, not restricted to only 'seeing' or 'hearing' and what was that people say about 'seeing is beleiving'
No! I am on Earth and trying to understand the bigger picture. Every one acknowledges that Afghanistan is in mess. However, it has been mess since USSR invasion. You cannot transform a war torn and bankrupt nation in to a functioning democracy in overnight. This process will take lot of time and effort. I hope that Afghanistan become stable in the coming future and be able to stand up on its feet.

correction, NATO'S inception was mainly to counter USSR in the cold war days. thats whats sarkozy's arguement also stem from. i know a lil Internationl Relationsas well bro
I covered this part;

And NATO is a result of unity among European nations. It was formed to prevent potential wars among them and to counter external threats to them.

I believe that I am not communicating in pashto here but I will try in language of pathan;

Khochi; NATO bani thee Europe ki khiwazat ke leyee. :D

Agreed, May ALLAH give the Ummah strength through unity, ameen. history is rife wih exmples wen unity originated from trumultous times, may we be faced with such times even more, nshaAllah we will nite under pressure as foretold by Allama Iqbal, surely u cant debate his prolific intellect?
Iqbal was a visionary in my eyes. He accurately predicted the plight of muslims in modern times.

again, not comparing, onlypointing out that a super power is in shambles and cant do anything about it, accounts to self oblteration. could give u more links
I am smelling conspiracy talk here.

Thankfully, hardworking people around the world do not have this mentality.

Remember; Day comes after Night.

Economic cycle basics:

logo_large.jpg


Recession is a fundamental part of economic cycle. Look at its positive aspects; It weeds out the weak and paves way for reforms.

Nee said orimplied that, and for crying out loud, wen did i compare the US with PAKISTAN??????
And yet this talk is about USA vs Pakistan?

I have utmost regard or hard orking decent amercicans, sadly they are being led to a catastrophicend due to their neo con plicy makers. if onlu kenedy were alive, these a55 hole neo cons wold have been exposed.
Obama gave them hope. He is more liberal than Bush.

If people start loosing hope, then they will never make progress. People in America are fighting this recession. We need to do the same in our country.

3 points of Quaid: UNITY | FAITH | DISCIPLINE

these rpor tell me that this bovine poop 'feel-good' talk wont be enough to dispel this rcovery myth. Ma article to counter these myths. please google urself
These are latest articles on US economic conditions. Check their dates.

Stop underestimaing other societies, be they enemies or not.

Economic recovery process is a slow affair.

compring US and Pakistan repeatitively, MODS please include a FACE PALM SMILEY! till the time ill use this Other counris are not fighting expansiv wars with no end and neither ar they ating as bullies and challaging the sovreignty of other smaller weaker nations. theres a difference!
Did other nations faced 9/11 like events? Still lots of nations have joined WOT (including Pakistan) :pop:

It is in our interest to address the issue of terrorism.

WOOHO good luck with that AMERICA!! as if the chinese gonna play by US rules. 5th coulmn farce at its best. thats the whole problem, with america, its ok if they do it but if someelse does it, they wanna send their battle gruops to the nearest seas.
sounds like another boston tea party
Again! 'China is invincible' mentality? :hitwall:

America can impose penalities on nations, which are its trading partners. In case of China; argument is that Chinese enjoys unfair advantage in its trading activities due to its policies.

REALITY CHECK: America is the largest trading partner of China.

Anyways! This Pakistani article nicely summed the bigger picture of the events:

Currency war and global economy | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

Currently, China is being blamed excessively by the US for currency manipulation. During the financial crises, most currencies fell against the US dollar and investors bought it, as it was seen as a safe haven. However, with the weakening dollar, investors started disposing of their dollars for other currencies. In addition, the US interest rates are almost zero making it even less attractive.

Certainly, the US wants to recover from the economic downturn by boosting its exports, but the high rate of the dollar compared to the Chinese yuan makes its products more expensive in the international market. The Chinese re-pegged their currency to the dollar in 2008, and stuck with the peg throughout the crisis. The People’s Bank of China bought up trillions of dollars in order to keep its currency weak against the dollar. So, the US was not happy because it helped keep Chinese exports artificially cheap.

According to leading economists, the Chinese yuan is actually 20 percent lower than its actual market value. This gives China a tremendous advantage in exporting against other countries, even other emerging markets that have low wages and, therefore, fairly cheap merchandise to sell on the world markets.

cheap labour costs..... are we forgetting someting here?
Situation may change under fair trading rules.

Read this: information.

Even China cannot sustain American pressure for long or afford its enemity.

good we agreeon something bro this alone is a tribulation, which makes the US sh!t bricks
Read these articles:

Treasurys resume gains after Fed buyback Bond Report - MarketWatch

The Fed expects to buy $7 billion to $9 billion in debt maturing from 2018 to 2020 later Friday.

The purchases are part of its second round of quantitative easing, on top of the reinvestment of maturing mortgage-related debt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/11/business/economy/11fed.html?_r=1&ref=quantitativeeasing

US is already making plans to deal with its debt.

You called istalling a puppet regime with secterian violence 'MAINTAINACE OF BALANCE?? btw Muqtadaal Sadr just returned to Irag from his oneyr exile in Iran, oops!! ROYAL PAIN IN THE US REAR END
I am not surprised, since US withdrawal from Iraq is taking place. Only 47000 coalition troops are left over there by now.

Their is a concern among Sunni circles in Iraq now that Sadr can restart sunni-shia conflict. This is bad news for Iraq actually. Sadr needs to act sensibly if he really wants to do something positive for his nation. Because in his previous attempts; he got some cities ruined and thousands of people killed.

may be the largest gold reserve but is it enough? there is no semblance in their reservs vs currency ratio. sorry not enough to rebut this problem.
Americans maintain high level of secrecy in this regard. So we can only speculate in this case.

so?? are u saying that the UN can say anything that go against the US?? Facts are facts bro, wethr someone likes it or not, google and ye shall find
No! I am saying that UN made a suggestion; which has been rejected by European Union. That is a lot of countries.

Legend, ur concrns about Pakistan ar genuine, thats great bro, but the crux of the matter remains the same. PAKISTAN WILL NOT COW DOWN IN THE FACE OF US AGGRESSION!!
Pakistan already has. WOT was not our war. We were forced in to it via threats.

Pakistan Zindabad, Afwaaj e Pakistan PAINDABAAD!!!
Indeed! And to live up to the terms of 'zindabaad' and 'paindabaad', we need to drop suicidal tendencies and do something positive. Thank you.

God! I sound like US-Pakistan relations spokesman in this thread. :blink:
 
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Ohhhhh my national pride gone for a toss
just because some god of war says so:rofl::rofl:

hey, thank God u have a PANDA as ur avatar, since its a Chinese animal, Im letting u off, other wise u would have suffered my wrath :D :sniper:

thank the Chinese :china: :lol::rofl:

Thats all u can bring to this arguement? some 5th grade standard jokes! come on man, grow up, or at least try to act as an adult :chilli:
 
Fine Presentation Skills, im sure u got an A in most of ur MBA courses :partay:

Legend, Im not going to debate further, because this wont go anywhere. Its just going to dwindle into space without any conclusive evidence.

You are rite, Im not going to buy what u are saying :lol: not not because of the fact that im acting stuburn as u said, its merely becasue i seriously think ur points in suport of the US dont make sense in my opinion.

I'd rather die fighting honourably than surrender, it has nothing to do with being realistic or having suicidal tendencies. By ur logic, the likes of Sultan Tipu Shaheed were also silly because they didn't bow down to a super power. What do u have to say about David and Goliath? Its very easy to rebut the case of Vietnam, Afghanistan etc but each and every country has its own set of gepgraphical edge, that a foreign invader finds very difficult. Assymetric warefare dosent nesseceraily mean that i have to go to Chicago to fight US imperialists.

I respect ur thoughts, indeed Pakistan is weak in a lot of fronts and needs to improve, but it certainly doesn't amount to being subjugated and scared to meet a mighty adversery. I don't doubt ur love and integrity for Pakistan one bit, but as i said, don't loose heart bro.

:pakistan:
 
the US is almost surely not going to "invade" pakistan. what would the endgame be for such a scenario? replace the government with some puppet? but then the militants in question are not govt controlled in the first place. the US will have to then dedicate forces to secure this new puppet AND afganistan without the pakistani Army to help it. it simply is a no win scenario for the US and therefore this fictitious invasion will never take place.

just in case the invasion does take place, the nukes will be pretty useless. where will they be used? on the supply lines that lie entirely in pakistan? or on afganistan which mostly contains afgans and not americans? and a nuclear response from US will surelyreduce their headaches in the endgame with so many fewer people to people angry with them. So please stop claiming that the invasion will not take place because pakistan is a nuclear state. the invasion wont take place because the US has nothing to gain from it.

what the US will most probably do is send small 15-20 man teams into pakistan to hunt specific targets, all with a nod from rawalpindi. anything more will be politically unviable for the pakistani govt. and an angry GOP causes more problems for US than it is willing to face
 


Just found this, and saw relevance. listen to the last minute carefully ...........

:pakistan:
 
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Fine Presentation Skills, im sure u got an A in most of ur MBA courses :partay:

Legend, Im not going to debate further, because this wont go anywhere. Its just going to dwindle into space without any conclusive evidence.

You are rite, Im not going to buy what u are saying :lol: not not because of the fact that im acting stuburn as u said, its merely becasue i seriously think ur points in suport of the US dont make sense in my opinion.

I'd rather die fighting honourably than surrender, it has nothing to do with being realistic or having suicidal tendencies. By ur logic, the likes of Sultan Tipu Shaheed were also silly because they didn't bow down to a super power. What do u have to say about David and Goliath? Its very easy to rebut the case of Vietnam, Afghanistan etc but each and every country has its own set of gepgraphical edge, that a foreign invader finds very difficult. Assymetric warefare dosent nesseceraily mean that i have to go to Chicago to fight US imperialists.

I respect ur thoughts, indeed Pakistan is weak in a lot of fronts and needs to improve, but it certainly doesn't amount to being subjugated and scared to meet a mighty adversery. I don't doubt ur love and integrity for Pakistan one bit, but as i said, don't loose heart bro.

:pakistan:
Brother, you are patriotic. This I can see within you.

However, you do not have proper grasp of ground realities of this world.

Stop thinking that we can take upon the entire world. We cannot.

I have even heard this hoax from a few fellow Pakistani: "Hitler said that if he had command of Pakistan's army. he would have conquered the entire world." Yeah right! :rolleyes:

Stop believing in hoaxes and wake up. Pakistan is currently perceived as a weak nation. Yes! This is hard truth.

Want to know the reasons? Watch the program cited in this thread. It may open your eyes.

USA is a superpower (regardless of present crises and this is not the first time for that nation) and we cannot afford its enemity. This is why we have no choice but to continue to serve its agenda regardless of our likings or dislikings. Do not confuse the situation of USA with that of India. Even India is stronger than us.

Their is a limit to impact of patriotism in the hour of need. We need to make our nation strong. Only then, we would be able to protect our interests.
 
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