Rising India or Falling India

[PakistanFront]

Rich gets richer and poor gets shafted not only a Indian problem i believe you can find this disease in any country you pick Including Pakistan.

Yes, But none of any other country including Pakistan, has that much big economy with that much big percentage of population living under poverty line. Tomatos in Pakistan are used to sell at more than 100 Rs. per kilo. Do you know the highest price of this vegetable only in India?

 

[Vinod2070]

Rich gets richer and poor gets shafted not only a Indian problem i believe you can find this disease in any country you pick Including Pakistan.

Yes, But none of any other country including Pakistan, has that much big economy with that much big percentage of population living under poverty line. Tomatos in Pakistan are used to sell at more than 100 Rs. per kilo. Do you know the highest price of this vegetable only in India?

India and Pakistan have an almost equal per capita income, India being only slightly ahead.

The percentage of people below national poverty line is also almost equal as is the poverty measured by people earning under $2 day.

Pakistan is better in terms of people earning under $1 per day though.

In literacy % India is quite far ahead of Pakistan though not good enough.

 

[PakistanFront]

Flintof said:

Look man. We've tried Tribalism, Monarchy, Oligarchy, Communism and they've all failed us.

We've tried democracy, capitalism and it has worked better. Marginally.

The sad fact is, that the only perfect system is one in which everybody has perfect knowledge. Considering the average IQ of a human specimen, that's unlikely to happen.

So we do the best we can, with our limited intelligence and consequently our inefficient, corrupt systems which benefit some and harm others. Our only hope is that perhaps the benefactors outnumber the sufferers.

Ofcourse, since "we" are infact benefactors, we conveniently, and rightly so, put the sufferers out of sight and out of mind.

There is no justice my friend. Its all an illusion

Now, this is really a good analyses. Infect, the purpose in the article was not make Indians ashamed of their rising stuff. But to put their attention on real matters.

Capitalism is the main reason of all un-justice and bad living conditions of common Indians. Where India is earning a lot of money from all around the world, Indians are livng in bad economical conditions. Do you really believe that those, who are willing to sell billion dollars weapons to India are really their good wishers? But India needs a change by the common people. Indian should raise against the capitalists, against the barhamans, against the gangsters like Bal Thakre. There is no other way common people of this poor but wealthy country would ever be able to rescue themsleves from the crisis and bad life conditions.

 

[Bushroda]

I seriously doubt if this is indeed a genuine article published in any daily. However, it is totally devoid of any economic sense. Unlike China India's economic growth is fueled by its service industry which needs educated & competent individuals. The manufacturing in India picked up recently in last 4-5 years. If anybody knows about India's economic scene during 70s and 80s would know how desperate things were when even educated unemployed were on the streets in plenty. In contrast, today an educated individual cannot stay unemployed unless he chooses so. The world is open for them.

As for the income distribution.. Its a hard choice for the government whether to invest in the future or to squander away the money and be left with nothing. Anyone wise enough for the penny would try to secure his bread for tomorrow even if he has to eat only half his stomach full. GoI decision to invest started reaping reward with manufacturing sector picking up and posting double digit growth rate (although it is slipping now due to rising fuel prices) in last few years.

Even after 3 decades of roaring economic growth China still has 50% of its population living on less than $2 (PPP, equivalent to 50 cents) a day. So, all the statistics don't mean a squat. Any developing country is bound to have these problems. But some people love to peep into someone else's cleavage without bothering to realize how many buttons are missing in their own shirt.

Indians have cried a lot through years over miseries surrounding them & now they have every reason to celebrate whatever little joy that has come their way.

 

[PakistanFront]

PakistanFront, can you tell me why despite all of India's failings, Pakistan is still behind India on the HDI index?

OK. I was just going to shut down my computer to leave for home. But you stopped me. hehehe.

OK. First of all look at India's foriegn income and list 177 countries again put the country with highest foriegn income at the top and with the lowest foriegn income at the bottom. See observe the India's position. I am sure that India will be bypassing many of those countries, which are above India in HDI Index. Will you please give me one good reason of why is that?


According to wikipedea:

The Human Development Index (HDI) is an index combining normalized measures of life expectancy, literacy, educational attainment, and GDP per capita for countries worldwide. It is claimed as a standard means of measuring human development — a concept that, according to the United Nations Development Program (UNDP), refers to the process of widening the options of persons, giving them greater opportunities for education, health care, income, employment, etc. The basic use of HDI is to rank countries by level of "human development", which usually also implies to determine whether a country is a developed, developing, or underdeveloped country.

The index was developed in 1990 by Pakistani economist Mahbub ul Haq and Sir Richard Jolly, with help from Gustav Ranis of Yale University and Lord Meghnad Desai of the London School of Economics



So this is the combination of many indicators, including Per captia, GDP etc. Now according to the same website. Life expactancy ratio is better in Pakistan than India. Similarly, you have to see each contributing factor seperately. Better life expectancy means better life oppertunities. Am I right?

Secondly, I wrote this article with good intentions, but you looks like a typical indian mantality. Don't get impress with anti-propaganda campaign by your goverment. Try to understand, yea.

Now, look. India is behind Pakistan in many fields but in some fields it is well ahead of Pakistan. Maily, India is getting far bigger amount of foriegn investment. Additionally, it is earning a lot of money, infect hundreds of billions of dollars from outside. Now, you agree or not. Whether this money equally distributed amongs Indians, or this money go in the pocket of your proudable enterpreneurs. This money does make part of the GDP. That is another thing, if some of your enterpreneurs are buying big steel mills in europe but not spending their wealth in inside India and no matter whether yor other enterpreneurs are buying every second business in UK. But at the end of the day, it increase the OVERALL per capita ratio of India, without implementing any positive impact on life of common Indians.

So if you give us break up of HDI index and discuss all elements seperatly from each other, Mr. Rising India Fan. That would be more interesting and more knoledgable for all of us. I hope that you will love to do that.

 

[PakistanFront]

PF, we say India is rising because the conditions in India have improved in the last 10 years. Get the point?

Unless you can somehow prove that the conditions of a majority of Indians have worsened in the past 2 decades, this thread has outlived its usefulness.

No, I did not get the point. What conditions improved? As your own institutes reporting something else. Instead of bashing, uselessly. Will you please dare to comment on the facts provided in the post # 1?

 

[PakistanFront]

Many people are still living in the past. The last 2 decades of 6%+ average growth have transformed a large part of India. The next 2 decades of 8% growth will totally change it.

The many successes of India not least in the IT field but also in many other knowledge driven industries as also the successes in manufacturing are being noticed all across the world. Many Indian businesses are now world class and world scale.

They will help in the transformation of India at a rapid pace. Just wait and watch and take advantage if that if you can.

As I said above and I am saying this again. That large profits of big enterpreneurs did increased the per capita income ratio of common indians, but in reality, THEY HAVE GOT NOTHING. Similarly, large inflow of money did increased the GDP ratio. But, again, that did not change the life of common indians. Or may be you would be able to present us some solid statistics which can indicated increase in the standard of living of common people.

 

[Flintlock]

Sigh, alright bro. If you are so interested in proving that Pakistan is better than India...please do list ALL the human development indicators (latest ones) and lets compare.

Lets continue this useless discussion further....

 

[PakistanFront]

In all fairness, this question is outside the scope of the argument. Pakistanfront is doing a lot of cutting and pasting; but he hasn't done any comparative analysis to see what the statistics represent over time... which would answer the question if India is really Rising or falling

And in all fairness, this arguments are just an attempt of bashing over others. if I did not presented any statistics, than why don't you present statistics and proove that the information provided in post # 1 and hereafter is wrong, biased and baseless??? What you say?

 

[PakistanFront]

Venod2070 Said:

India and Pakistan have an almost equal per capita income, India being only slightly ahead.

The percentage of people below national poverty line is also almost equal as is the poverty measured by people earning under $2 day.

Pakistan is better in terms of people earning under $1 per day though.

In literacy % India is quite far ahead of Pakistan though not good enough

Now, you are acting little positively. However, the primary purpose of the post # 1 is not compare India with any country including Pakistan. But to point out the hard fact that despite all its exports and heavy earnings, including high growth rate, Indians are become poorer and poorer everyday. So we need to discuss and point out the reasonss.

someone, had correctly but un-intentionally pointed out the real problem with India and that is capitalism. Tell me with honesty, All heavy incomes by these enterpreneurs are goiong to european countries. They are buying steel mils in 40 billion dollars in europe. In 40 billion dollars, he would be able to set up atleast 4 steel mills in India. Thus 40000 indians obtain jobs in only those 4 steel mills. Tell me if I am wrong? But you Indians hate Pakistan and Pakistani so much that if we say something for your own betterness, you always regard it propaganda. Isn't it?

 

[Flintlock]

[
someone, had correctly but un-intentionally pointed out the real problem with India and that is capitalism. Tell me with honesty, All heavy incomes by these enterpreneurs are goiong to european countries. They are buying steel mils in 40 billion dollars in europe. In 40 billion dollars, he would be able to set up atleast 4 steel mills in India. Thus 40000 indians obtain jobs in only those 4 steel mills. Tell me if I am wrong? But you Indians hate Pakistan and Pakistani so much that if we say something for your own betterness, you always regard it propaganda. Isn't it?

Yeah, India should ditch capitalism and become a..what..communist? Islamic? what? Please enlighten us.

And yeah, we hate Pakistanis. Happy?

 

[PakistanFront]

Bushroda said:

I seriously doubt if this is indeed a genuine article published in any daily. However, it is totally devoid of any economic sense. Unlike China India's economic growth is fueled by its service industry which needs educated & competent individuals. The manufacturing in India picked up recently in last 4-5 years. If anybody knows about India's economic scene during 70s and 80s would know how desperate things were when even educated unemployed were on the streets in plenty. In contrast, today an educated individual cannot stay unemployed unless he chooses so. The world is open for them.

As for the income distribution.. Its a hard choice for the government whether to invest in the future or to squander away the money and be left with nothing. Anyone wise enough for the penny would try to secure his bread for tomorrow even if he has to eat only half his stomach full. GoI decision to invest started reaping reward with manufacturing sector picking up and posting double digit growth rate (although it is slipping now due to rising fuel prices) in last few years.

Even after 3 decades of roaring economic growth China still has 50% of its population living on less than $2 (PPP, equivalent to 50 cents) a day. So, all the statistics don't mean a squat. Any developing country is bound to have these problems. But some people love to peep into someone else's cleavage without bothering to realize how many buttons are missing in their own shirt.

Indians have cried a lot through years over miseries surrounding them & now they have every reason to celebrate whatever little joy that has come their way

First of all, this article is not published in any daily. And secondly this is not a standard of geniune or non-geniune. And you know that. But you dis-agree with the contents or unable to defend against it. So trying to underscore the article and its writer.

What joy has came in their way is not pointed out by you. Government treasures are full with dollars and hundreds of billions of others are on their way, but the 77% population is living below poverty line. To pop up with a little better face in the world community, Indian government had altered its standard of poverty and excluded a significant portion of its population from the poverty ratio. Hundreds of thousands of people commiting suicide. Illegal Indian immigerants, only in Pakistan are far more than you can even imagine and then you are telling us that the buttons are missing from someone else's shirt? Bravo.

 

[PakistanFront]

Flintlock said:

Sigh, alright bro. If you are so interested in proving that Pakistan is better than India...please do list ALL the human development indicators (latest ones) and lets compare.

Lets continue this useless discussion further....

First of all, I was not interested, you were interested.

Secondly, you started this discussion, so you present all the factors here. I am not gonna spend my time to educate an ignorant like you. Who is not actually willing to become educated.

Thirdly, I did not compared India with any other country, it was your and other fools from India. Who have courage to speak but do not have courage to listen and start bashing others. If they had not been provided with the food of their own choice.

Forthly, it is not a useless discussion. It is very important to know, why Indians are dieing, why they are commiting suicide, why sex industry growth rate is higher than the industrial growth rate and other growth rates in India.

Since, we share many norms of the society and the culture. It would be interesting for us and also informative to learn about all these thing.

So why 330 million Indians are not available proper toilet, while India is earning hundreds of Billions of Dollars each year? Please tell us. thanks.

 

[Flintlock]

No, I did not get the point. What conditions improved? As your own institutes reporting something else. Instead of bashing, uselessly. Will you please dare to comment on the facts provided in the post # 1?

Your post #1 or #2 or any of your posts have still not managed to prove that the condition of a majority of Indians has Worsened since economic liberalization.

Till you manage to do that, there is no question of India "Falling".

 

[PakistanFront]

Flintlock said:

Yeah, India should ditch capitalism and become a..what..communist? Islamic? what? Please enlighten us.

And yeah, we hate Pakistanis. Happy?

Oh, I am sorry if I heart you. But I never intended to do that.

And secondly, if you adopt Islam as your system. That would be the best choice for your people. Only the Islamic system can rescue you from so much troubles.

But I am sure that you are not going to do that. So what other choices are availble to you. Do your Hinduism does not give any economical system to follow? And if at last, capitalism is your final choice then you need to make certain changes into it. I can tell you few, but I am sure that you will again mind it.