AMCA : Together with Israel & France ?

[Vibs]

We may be 'interested" but that reprt of work started is false. Work has started only in FGFA.

No deal whatsoever was signed in secrecy As far as i know.

Dude, I never mentioned we started work on it..funding details won't be revealed till a concrete deal is struck. Till Late last year we were only hearing rumors of the FGFA. Suddenly we hear $6 bn is allocated for PAK FA and $2 bn for AMCA. LCA has taken a long time coming and even LCA Mark 2 is technologically inferior to other aircraft out there. I'm sure they are already thinking of a replacement for it by 2025. With the latest press releases of our Air Force chief as to how our airforce is lagging behind, I'm sure he is lobbying strong and hard for whatever funding he can get. And looking at the number of deals coming in he seems to be getting them.

 

[SpArK]

Dude, I never mentioned we started work on it..funding details won't be revealed till a concrete deal is struck. Till Late last year we were only hearing rumors of the FGFA. Suddenly we hear $6 bn is allocated for PAK FA and $2 bn for AMCA. LCA has taken a long time coming and even LCA Mark 2 is technologically inferior to other aircraft out there. I'm sure they are already thinking of a replacement for it by 2025. With the latest press releases of our Air Force chief as to how our airforce is lagging behind, I'm sure he is lobbying strong and hard for whatever funding he can get. And looking at the number of deals coming in he seems to be getting them.

I dont think there will be further allocation of funds to another 5th gen.

Lets wait for some credible report before drawing conclusions.

 

[Vibs]

^^Fair enough.
Just a parting shot.
India, Russia mulling close defence cooperation
IAF FGFA India Russia Defence
Posted On: May 30, 2011

The fifth generation fighter aircraft.
MOSCOW (PTI): India and Russia are mulling closer cooperation between their air forces, operating similar aircraft and preparing to jointly develop futuristic fifth generation fighter jet, officials said during the recent visit of Air Chief Marshal P V Naik there.

The issues of inter-services interaction, including joint air drills were high on the agenda of Naik's talks with the Russian Air Chief Colonel-General Alexander Zelin, Russian Defence Ministry sources said.

In the course of his week-long official Russia visit, Naik watched the demonstration flight of the prototype of PAK-FA T-50 fifth generation fighter (FGFA) developed by Sukhoi at an airbase near here last Monday.

The warplane will be jointly developed and produced by the two countries under an inter-governmental agreement signed in October 2007.

Besides the common heavier platform, Russia has also agreed to jointly develop a lighter fifth generation fighter tailored to meet specific requirements of the Indian Air Force (IAF).

The Indian Air Chief also watched the flight of deeply modernised MiG-29UPG of the IAF at the airfield of M M Gromov Flight Research Institute in Zhukovsky town near here.

Under a multi-million dollar contract signed in 2008, Russia's MiG Aircraft Corporation, is deeply upgrading six of the IAF's fighter MiG-29 fleet here, while rest will be modernised in India.

 

[angeldemon_007]

^^^
Actually similar reports came in 2009. Funny thing is according to the reports Mig LMFS was revived again only after Indian interest. So this might be true that we might enter into partnership again after ADA decides on the requirement of AMCA.

 

[IND151]

very good idea

 

[Skull and Bones]

Since France is not committed to F-35 program, they'll be more than happy to associate themselves with any 5th gen program. And if we select Rafale (which is more likely to happen), then the defense co-operation between India-France will be on a different level. And no one can offer the level of customization as AMCA platform can offer.

And Israel can play a significant role in the avionics dept, but making them partners doesn't seems to be viable option. Remember they rejected AESA radars deal with India under US pressure.

 

[tvsram1992]

We 2020 we will have 4G aircrafts
Heavy class: 270 Su30mki
Medium class: 126 Mrca + 69 Mig29SMT
Light class : 48 Tejas Mk1 + 30 Tejas Mk2
In 2040 we will have the 5g aircrafts
Heavy class:300Pakfa/Fgfa
Medium class:200 AMCA+/Russian Light weight fighter
Light class: 100 ???+/F-35

Leave the mirages and others. They will be used as close support aircraft.

 

[rockstarIN]

Since France is not committed to F-35 program, they'll be more than happy to associate themselves with any 5th gen program. And if we select Rafale (which is more likely to happen), then the defense co-operation between India-France will be on a different level. And no one can offer the level of customization as AMCA platform can offer.

And Israel can play a significant role in the avionics dept, but making them partners doesn't seems to be viable option. Remember they rejected AESA radars deal with India under US pressure.

I agree, Jumping from 4.5 Rafale to 6th gen unmanned one is not viable for France.

It is better to form a JV with India for AMCA, may be they are waiting a little bit for MMRCA + AMCA evolve phases.

Btw.. I don't think that 6th Gen UAV is possible. It is easy to operate in Afgan, Pakistan etc. But what if the enemy has got capabilities to strike out the satellites? how will they communicate/control those unmanned??

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

I asked the same question to Sancho about a month back , about whether we could ask the French to join us in AMCA , since they do not have their own 5th gen programm yet , but he said that the French were not looking for a 5th gen programm and were going to add the stealth feature to Rafale itself , but i still believe that if all other major European countries are getting 5th gen planes then the French would also certainly want some. We should choose the Rafale and ask the French to join us in AMCA .

 

[Omega007]

What?Russia will help us with AMCA project!That's the best news of this year!Now the fate of AMCA will be secured.

 

[Vibs]

What?Russia will help us with AMCA project!That's the best news of this year!Now the fate of AMCA will be secured.

I don't think it's the AMCA they are helping us in. This seems to be a new category all together. A "light" stealth fighter. Maybe they will churn out a weird hybrid of the LCA and a Sukhoi series

 

[Dash]

Israel is NOT Too Happy about the Level of Access it has got with Tech related to F-35.
Besides, The JV will be like F-35 Consortium. Say...

France is Level 1 Partner and Israle is Level 2 partner.... ??

Hi Xinix -

Though its not a bad idea for a trail but let us see.

1. Israel is not good in Airframe design, aerodynamics and engine. They are good in flight controls, navigation and avionics. How much they can help I dont know. Plus they are getting F-35, even though they are not happy with what they are getting but it does the job for them. so doubtful

2. France is not interested at this point to field a 5th Gen plane, if they had then they would have started already, however they moved a step ahead to make 6th Gen planes, like politless bombers, UCAVs etc. Thats the reason they said they can support us in making of AURA, remember?, they are more interested in that...

We take it to a furom to discuss with them but I dont know how this is feasible in reality.

 

[Jon Snow]

even by the highly optimistic date set for the amca the serial production will begin by 2025...... Doubtful....but lets say they succeed(with jv from israel and france)- i dont think the iaf will have any place in their inventory for the amca.
Consider- 270 su 30mki
200- mrca
250- pakfa/fgfa(could even be 300 if reports are true)
80-lca mk 2
thats 800 aircraft( which i think is the sanctioned size of the iaf)- all of them having 15- 30 yrs of life left in them..... - where is the place for amca......iaf wants hal to do it alone because they know that if hal goes alone the amca will only reach serial production by 2035- when we will really be needing replacements for older sukhois and lca....and also india will get the prestigious honor of having developed a fifth gen fighter by themselves( personally i dont think this point is important but the way hal keeps harping on about how indigenous the lca is i guess it must be pretty important for them)

 

[tvsram1992]

Let us make it our own, but fund it properly and we can see the result. Any way we get help from Russia even if we dont want. Also we can use the technology of Su30mki,FGFA and MRCA.

 

[Omega007]

Guys!does this mean story ends for AMCA?if russians were talking about jv for another stealth plane does that mean AMCA will be closed?