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$30bn deal: US to sell F-15s to Saudi Arabia

The US sells xyz to Saudi Arabia under the premise that it doesn't compromise Israel's technological edge. So they will give the Saudis the second best, Israel has a lot to say what US sells to KSA.


Saudis already have a decent fleet of Eurofighters with more on the way. That's the one aircraft they have that could give them technological edge and possibly air supremacy, over rival air forces in the region.
 
The US sells xyz to Saudi Arabia under the premise that it doesn't compromise Israel's technological edge. So they will give the Saudis the second best, Israel has a lot to say what US sells to KSA.


Saudis already have a decent fleet of Eurofighters with more on the way. That's the one aircraft they have that could give them technological edge and possibly air supremacy, over rival air forces in the region.

Finally you see it's very true, USA want Israel to keep the Edge in the region.
 
Such a useless thread so far. No one is talkin gabout the capabilities of F15SA, can someone throw out mor edetails on this bird.

Saudi Arabia wants 84 new F-15S strike-fighters to replace some of its oldest F-15s, but they also want an advanced radar that will be similar to the radar on the F-35 that the Israelis plan to buy.

New digital radars with active electronically scanned array (AESA) antennas can increase surveillance and targeting ranges by three times. They can create maps with enough resolution to find small, moving targets. With the right software they can become sophisticated electronic warfare devices. And the newest twist is that with the next generation of air-to-air missiles, they can defend against short-range and some medium-range ballistic missiles.

The original request from Saudi Arabia was for the F-15S with a Raytheon-made, AESA radar that could increase the sensor’s range for detecting small targets to about 150 mi. depending on the radar cross section of the target -- and almost eliminates maintenance costs. The current radar in both the F-15S and Israel’s F-15I is the manually scanned APG-70 which is no longer in production. Israeli pilots say they can see large airliner sized targets at 150 naut. mi., but tactical fighter size targets only register at about 56 naut. mi.

The F-15Ss are part of a proposed $30 billion arms package that is being promoted by the Obama Administration.

The new AESA radar designs – such as the APG-63(v)3 on upgraded USAF F-15Cs and Singapore’s new F-15SGs – can detect very small targets. The U.S. variant can target stealthy cruise missiles at ranges great enough to attack and destroy them. More importantly, AESA radars the size of those in F-15s can find and target small moving ground targets at long range so that they can be struck with standoff weapons beyond the range of anti-aircraft weapons.

While Israel and Saudi Arabia carry the same radars in their F-15s, the Israeli Air Force has fielded long-range unmanned aircraft with precision targeting capabilities that make up for a lack of long-range radar on the manned aircraft. This gives Israel a qualitative advantage for the time being.

South Korea has the APG-63(v)1 (without an AESA antenna but with a digital processing back end) on its new F-15Ks. That means that the Koreans can upgrade the fighter’s capabilities when they can afford the advanced antenna arrays. Meanwhile they get the advantages of low maintenance.

The negotiations and manufacturing capabilities still in place at Raytheon indicate the candidate radar for Saudi Arabia would be the APG-63(v)1 or 3. Since the Israeli Air Force is planning to buy about 22 AESA-radar equipped F-35 Joint Strike Fighters, the purchase of an advanced radar by the Saudis may become a moot issue. It could also soften any onus associated with introducing a stealth fighter to the Middle East.

Saudi Arabia’s fighting on the borders with Yemen insurgents reportedly has produced significant casualties within the Saudi forces. Air raids conducted with Saudi Tornados and F-15S aircraft began late last year against Houthis rebels in northern Yemen’s Sa’dah region.

It is the first military action for the Royal Saudi Air Force since 1991. Results have apparently attached some urgency to plans for upgrading the air and ground forces. The process started after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990. But some of the force is aging and needs replacement.

High on that list are 82 F-15C/Ds. The Saudis’ best strike aircraft currently are 71 S-models with the Raytheon APG-70 radar with a detuned Doppler beam-sharpening capability. The Israelis have much the same radar (the APG-70I) with a similar reduction in capability. The USAF radars have about 3 times better resolution than those on the I and the S models.* With the APG-70 radar line now closed, the question becomes what radar will the new F-15S aircraft carry.
 
This is why it's very Important for Arabs country to shift back to Russia and China and stronger relations with Iran. the west wants to keep Arabs stupid and use their currency and get ripped off cheap resources. We lacked 3 things our enemies always had Leadership, Training, and Intelligence.
 
Finally you see it's very true, USA want Israel to keep the Edge in the region.

As far as the F-15 deal goes,
Saudis have invested in this planes for several years now. They have infrastructure and human resource to support this platform.
Thus it makes sense to purchase upgraded versions as compared to buying a new platform and starting from square 1.

However If there was a saudi company which was co-producing the plane, or assembling some of them in Saudi Arabia
that would have been super cool !
 
When we signed the deal for the typhoon we got AESA radar tech we got avionics and assorted key airplane tech. Now this deal with the mandatory reinvest policy means even more tech. I am eager to see what tech will come with these planes as well.
 
The real problem is KSA with its financial resources should have by now developed their own state of the art defense industry and have established indigenous production of military hardware. Instead they invest in western defense industries in exchange the West gives then their political backing and support. This is what is very disappointing about KSA.

Instead of Eurofighter they could have had an 'Arabfighter' had they developed their defense industry, they have the resources available they simply don't fully capitalize on them.
 
The real problem is KSA with its financial resources should have by now developed their own state of the art defense industry and have established indigenous production of military hardware. Instead they invest in western defense industries in exchange the West gives then their political backing and support. This is what is very disappointing about KSA.

Instead of Eurofighter they could have had an 'Arabfighter' had they developed their defense industry, they have the resources available they simply don't fully capitalize on them.

Saudi's spend around 10 % of their GDP, I admire Iran for building a Domestic Weapons Industry. they spend alot less but a more efficient military.
 
This is why it's very Important for Arabs country to shift back to Russia and China and stronger relations with Iran. the west wants to keep Arabs stupid and use their currency and get ripped off cheap resources. We lacked 3 things our enemies always had Leadership, Training, and Intelligence.


No, reliance on China and Russia is also a wrong route, perhaps short term benefits but in the long term it is also problematic. As bth China and Russia have their own interests to look out for.

For a country like KSA which has the financial resources investment in RD and a indigenous defense industry is the way to go.
 
The real problem is KSA with its financial resources should have by now developed their own state of the art defense industry and have established indigenous production of military hardware. Instead they invest in western defense industries in exchange the West gives then their political backing and support. This is what is very disappointing about KSA.

Instead of Eurofighter they could have had an 'Arabfighter' had they developed their defense industry, they have the resources available they simply don't fully capitalize on them.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-forum/132464-saudifighter-typhoon.html
 
No, reliance on China and Russia is also a wrong route, perhaps short term benefits but in the long term it is also problematic. As bth China and Russia have their own interests to look out for.

For a country like KSA which has the financial resources investment in RD and a indigenous defense industry is the way to go.

Cooperation is a better term then reliance, I admire how fast China managed to build up it's defense industry.
 
Look at my native country Egypt, it got downgraded Abram Tanks, Egyptians troops are trained the best out of all Arab armies. still they need better weaponry then downgraded weapons. the fact is the west will never sell weapons to Arabs they want Israel to keep the Edge that's why Cooperation With Iran, Russia, China are important. you heard first the USA throws a Bone to Israel then to the Arabs then the leftovers to Pakistan ?

Which is why Pakistan no longer depends on the US for most of our major weapon systems. The BLK 52's along with the targeting pods we received are definitely bugged, which is why Pakistan with the cooperation of China is producing the JF-17 BLK1 and later on BLK 2 and 3, we will also be receiving the FC-20's. Also, most of our new artillery units are Chinese, as well as TOT for the A-100 MLRS system, and with the research going on with 155mm gun barrels we will be producing our own self propelled howitzers. We produce our own tanks, our own standoff weapons for Jet fighters, our own missiles, our own drones, and InshaAllah we will achieve more success in this field along with other fields.

It might not be much as compared to what the USA is making, but at least we won't have to worry about some guy switching our weapons off, and neither do we have to worry about the lack of spare parts.
 
Instead of Eurofighter they could have had an 'Arabfighter' had they developed their defense industry, they have the resources available they simply don't fully capitalize on them.

Well, if Mosamania is correct about the technology offsets in the Eurofighter and F-15 deals, then this will certainly go a long way in jump-starting their defence industry.

The only remaining issue will be developing enough trained manpower to absorb the existing technology and then engage in continued R&D to advance further.
 

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