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Nizam-i-adal approved

Hi qsaark!

There is no one who says that shariah law is wrong!!

We are saying that the shariah that is implemented by talibans is not true islam!!
And u are arguing, thats mean u support talibans!!

please can you clear us if you know the difference between terrorist taliban and people who want Sharia in Swat. what i know Maulana Sufi is not kind of guy what you are chanting against him and his followers who supporting Sharia in Swat.

people keep using the word taliban without knowing its meaning, and who they actually are. it is known with facts that there are verious element of anti-islam/pakistan working while acting like taliban. i.e. my friend been in one of op in Tribal area and caught few indian agents dressed like mujahideen and even had close links with them. well how PA know they were indian which they later admited themself but before that when they were undressed for chittroll none of them had circumcision.:enjoy:
 
Dear Mr. Sherdil!

I think you do not fully comprehend what I wrote about. If you think that I am guilty of something, then you are absolutely correct! I am indeed guilty of being extremely concerned about the cancer and the curse of the Talibaan! And I am indeed guilty of sitting here and just writing about it , for now!

Just one question? What has become of the teachings, and the Role model, of our beloved Prophet(PBUH)? IS this what he taught us? (GOD Forbid!). What Shariah are we talking about here? Where Does wanton murder, beheadings and suicide bombings on fellow Muslims figure in Islamic Law or Islam? Our Beloved Prophet(PBUH) was a model of tolerance and forgiveness, even for his worst enemies!

Or maybe, (pardon me for being harsh), that all the people of Pakistan, except Talibaans and their supporters, are apostates and kafirs??(God Forbid!)

What about the image, of Islam we are projecting to the rest of the world? What image did our beloved Prophet(PBUH) project to the world? As far as I know it was one of tolerance, compassion and love for all!

So, where does this phenomenon of the talibaan barbarians figure in our glorious Islamic history and heritage? No where!

These barbarians are not Muslims, not even humans! as they have nothing in common with our religion or humanity!

They are a curse and a Fitna, that must be quashed before it is too late! Yes, I am guilty, and I am very proud to be guilty of hating this locust, this abomination! and it's horrific impact, on our Religion, our country and and our psyche.

The Nizam-e-Adal law, will indeed, bring into the open, the very intentions of the Talibaan, for all to see.....

As I said, just wait a bit more!
 
This thread has some articles posted by Munshi Sahib from the NYT and WSJ.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/war-te...tants-threaten-pakistan-s-populous-heart.html

They do not paint a pretty picture of what is to come, if the Swat model is adopted by other militant outfits.

Within Swat, the WSJ paints a very damning picture:

Pakistani Peace Deal Gives New Clout to Taliban Rebels

MINGORA, Pakistan -- Thousands of Islamist militants are pouring into Pakistan's Swat Valley and setting up training camps here, quickly making it one of the main bases for Taliban fighters and raising their threat to the government in the wake of a controversial peace deal.

President Asif Ali Zardari effectively ratified the government's deal with the Taliban Monday by signing a bill that imposes Islamic law in Swat, a key plank of the accord, hours after legislators overwhelmingly approved a resolution urging it. Pakistani officials have touted the deal, reached in February, as a way to restore peaceful order in the bloodied region -- which lies just a few hours' drive from the capital -- and halt the Taliban's advance.

Yet a visit to the Taliban-controlled valley here found mounting evidence that the deal already is strengthening the militants as a base for war. U.S. officials contend the pact has given the Taliban and its allies in al Qaeda and other Islamist groups an advantage in their long-running battle against Pakistan's military.

The number of militants in the valley swelled in the months before the deal with the Taliban was struck, and they continue to move in, say Pakistani and U.S. officials. They now estimate there are between 6,000 and 8,000 fighters in Swat, nearly double the number at the end of last year.

Taliban leaders here make no secret of their ultimate aim. "Our objective is to drive out Americans and their lackeys" from Pakistan and Afghanistan, said Muslim Khan, a spokesman for the group, in an interview here. "They are not Muslims and we have to throw them out."

Militant training camps are springing up across the valley's thickly forested mountainsides. "Young men with no prospect of employment and lack of education facilities are joining the militants," said Abdur Rehman, a schoolteacher in Swat.

Until the fighting began nearly two years ago in the valley, it was a popular weekend getaway for well-heeled Pakistanis, known for its alpine ridges, fruit orchards and trout-filled streams. With the Taliban now imposing its harsh version of Islamic law, floggings and even executions are fast becoming commonplace. Residents said many young men are joining the militants to ensure the safety of their families, who they hope will be left in peace if one of their own is fighting the government.

"We are all frightened by this brutality. No one can dare to challenge them," said Fazle Rabbi, who owns a cloth shop in Mingora, Swat's main town. The shop sits on a square that has become known among residents as "Slaughter Square" because the Taliban have begun using it to dump bodies after executions.

Since the new peace deal was made, the militants are beginning to push into neighboring areas. Last week they overpowered a village militia in the adjacent Buner district. The attack was a violation of the peace accord. But the Taliban faction that controls Swat says it has no intention of withdrawing. "We want Islamic sharia [law] also to be enforced in Buner," said Mr. Khan. "No one can force us out from any part of the province."

Many of the longer-term jihadist fighters are loyal to groups with ties to al Qaeda, such as Jaish-e-Mohammed. They have been hardened on battlefields in neighboring Afghanistan and the Kashmir region claimed by India and Pakistan -- underlining the growing confluence between the various Islamist groups fighting on either side of the Afghan-Pakistani border, the officials say.

The Taliban and al Qaeda were once largely confined to a mountainous ribbon that runs along the Afghan border and has long existed in a semiautonomous limbo, technically part of Pakistan but never fully under the control of its government.

In the past two years, however, the Taliban and its allies have pushed into areas where Pakistan's state had held sway, such as Swat, about 100 miles from Islamabad.

Striking peace deals with some Taliban factions is part of Pakistan's broader strategy to counter the militants. The government's logic is that such accords can exploit the groups' fractious nature; one enemy can be neutralized with a peace deal while another is defeated on the battlefield. The deals also have been struck when the army has struggled to overcome militants. In Swat, about 3,000 militants pushed four times as many soldiers out of the valley in 18 months of fighting, leaving some 1,500 people dead.

Nearly all the peace accords reached in the past few years in areas near the Afghan border, where the Taliban are strongest, have collapsed. Often they have left the militants more powerful. A similar deal in Swat fell apart last year after the Taliban renewed attacks on Pakistani forces.

The Taliban's actions since the new peace deal was unveiled have alarmed Washington, where officials fear that Swat will become an effective launching pad for expansion into Pakistan's more densely populated plains. "This is a rest stop for the Taliban, it's nothing more," said a U.S. official in Washington.

Swat now offers a glimpse of the Taliban's vision for Pakistan. They have taken control of the local government and the police, who have been ordered to shed their uniforms in favor of the traditional Shalwar Kameez, an outfit comprising a long shirt and loose trousers. They also have seized Swat's emerald mines, which extract millions of dollars a year in gemstones.

At barbershops, notices warn men not to shave their beards. Women are no longer allowed to leave their homes without their husbands or male blood relatives. Girls' schools have been reopened after initially being closed but the students must be covered from head to toe, and Taliban officials routinely inspect classrooms for violators.

"We used to have lots of cultural and extracurricular activities in the school, but all that has been stopped," said Ziaullah Yousaf Zai, a principal of a private girls' school in Mingora. "We do not want to give any pretext to the Taliban to shut the school again."

Mr. Khan, the Taliban spokesman, predicted there would soon be more executions, showing off a list of people whom the Taliban want to try in Islamic courts for what he called their "anti-Islamic" ways. The list includes senior government officials, a woman whose husband is in the U.S. military, and others. Many of them have fled or are in areas outside Taliban control

"These kinds of people should not live," said Mr. Khan, who also is a commander in the Tehrik-e-Taliban, a broader Taliban alliance focused on battling the Pakistani government.


Islamic courts haven't yet been set up in Swat because Pakistani President Zardari had delayed signing the bill to impose sharia, as the peace deal stipulates. Until Monday, he had maintained there first must be complete peace in the valley, though he didn't explain how he would determine that, nor did he address it Monday.

Mr. Zardari's delay was widely viewed as an attempt to save face with opponents of the deal in his own government and Washington. He relented after the Parliament vote established support from almost every national political party, said a senior official close to the president. One party walked out in opposition.

Mr. Khan had warned of more bloodshed if Islamic law was not formally imposed. "It does not matter to us whether the peace deal stays or not. No one can stop us from setting up our own courts," he said.

The Taliban were already imposing their own version of sharia, which has been interpreted with wide variations by Islamic scholars for centuries. Pakistani television stations recently broadcast a video of a woman being flogged by black-turbaned Taliban in Swat. Most official accounts say she was alleged to have left her house without a male blood relative.

While Mr. Khan insisted the video was a fake, he acknowledged that such an incident did happen. "As a Muslim, we cannot allow a woman to violate Islamic values," he said.

Pakistani Peace Deal Gives New Clout to Taliban Rebels - WSJ.com
 
I have said it before and repeating it again. I am defending the Islam and Shariyat, not those who twist it or use it for their own good. Anybody is welcome to check all of my previous posts. I have condemned Taliban as well as so-called religious political parties who are only using the name of Islam but in reality have little or nothing to do with it.

The problem is, in the opposition of Taliban, many of us have starting throwing mud on Islam and Shariyat which is not correct. Please separate the two and condemn the Taliban who have a political ideology and who are using the name of Islam to justify it.

If a doctor malpractice, you should condemn the doctor, not the medical profession. Similarly those who malpractice the religion be condemned, not the religion.

qsaark i think we are in a dilemma here...between yourself, Muse and the others including myself, i see that we all know a lot more about Islam in context than the run of the mill Mullah, Religious parties, the scheming TNSM or the nefarious TTP.
All these parties use and abuse Islam as a power tool!

The intellect i see on this forum makes me wonder why is it that a nation like Pakistan with so many gifted intellectuals still finds itself rock bottom?

Problem is that i see a great divergence amongst our views as to how best to tackle the beast which has no shame in using the name of Islam to establish a stranglehold on the the citizens!

Pakistan is a state which is supposed to model itself on Islamic principles and provide a secure, just and liberal environment to all citizens regardless of faith, creed and caste.

Now these principles are not Burqah or beard and we all know it.
The principles of Justice, equality etc. are actually the more prominent and distinguishing features of Islam and these play a part in the affairs of the state. These things are covered in the constitution so there is need to enforce the constitution.
This constitution needs to be backed by the people and not questioned and thrown out like a piece of trash which TNSM says we do!

Small things like rituals are not affairs of the state; whether i keep a beard or not is quite simply put....my personal choice.
How the Muslim men and women conduct themselves without clashing with the principles of Islam are their own business...

Within the sphere of the principles of Islam, i do not see anything wrong with Pakistani constitution and hence i shun the gangster approach adopted by TNSM and will not even mention TTP who to me are just a band of terrorists.
Yes, the law and order needs to be improved.
Justice needs to be provided to all.
These issues are genuine and merit thought, discussions, rallies if need be to make the state realize where it is lacking...No way does it merit a rebellion and to boot ....in the name of Islam.

The problem is how we protect Islam without siding with the guilty parties???

Roguish organizations like TNSM, Jamaat Islami,JUI etc are constantly supporting TTP by providing supporting statements and justifications.
These parties and organizations are sadly mostly funded by like minded individuals from middle east as well as many people in Pakistan.
They have a lot of support in money and in manpower.
TTP is the nefarious son of these organizations, which has manifested itself as the culmination of a desire to force one's political and ideological will upon the others...with extreme prejudice and without any care for others lives, properties, freedom and self respect.

Individuals of your capability and many other brilliant minds here on this forum are at a point where we ourselves are feeling that TTP has already done a major damage to the citizens, Pakistan and Islamic ideology but we always enter into an argument about how to tackle the ideology which is used by the likes of TTP.

That is the million dollar question...What steps to take in order to ensure that such an ideology does not take root in Pakistan ever again?

If the ordinary masses are not as educated as many of us here are on Islamic principles then should we give the religious organizations in our country the room to manipulate masses in the name of Islam?
How to address this issue?
Should we not deal with the Mullah and restructure the Madrassas etc so that there is no deliberate perversion of Islamic principles done by these organizations?

Whoever will do this will be labeled as infidel by all the religious parties, Mullahs, TNSM, TTP etc...this is known to us all who are aware of the mentality of these organizations and is reflected in all their statements to date!
This is the issue, how to reform the Mullah and their kind?
These organizations and individuals will never be talked into relinquishing their hold, sooner or later some force will need to be used to coerce them into submission and play a positive nation building role rather than undermining all efforts to have unity and cohesiveness in our ranks.
The force needs to be applied and i see no other alternative!
 
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Dear Mr. Sherdil!

I think you do not fully comprehend what I wrote about. If you think that I am guilty of something, then you are absolutely correct! I am indeed guilty of being extremely concerned about the cancer and the curse of the Talibaan! And I am indeed guilty of sitting here and just writing about it , for now!

Just one question? What has become of the teachings, and the Role model, of our beloved Prophet(PBUH)? IS this what he taught us? (GOD Forbid!). What Shariah are we talking about here? Where Does wanton murder, beheadings and suicide bombings on fellow Muslims figure in Islamic Law or Islam? Our Beloved Prophet(PBUH) was a model of tolerance and forgiveness, even for his worst enemies!

Or maybe, (pardon me for being harsh), that all the people of Pakistan, except Talibaans and their supporters, are apostates and kafirs??(God Forbid!)

What about the image, of Islam we are projecting to the rest of the world? What image did our beloved Prophet(PBUH) project to the world? As far as I know it was one of tolerance, compassion and love for all!

So, where does this phenomenon of the talibaan barbarians figure in our glorious Islamic history and heritage? No where!

These barbarians are not Muslims, not even humans! as they have nothing in common with our religion or humanity!

They are a curse and a Fitna, that must be quashed before it is too late! Yes, I am guilty, and I am very proud to be guilty of hating this locust, this abomination! and it's horrific impact, on our Religion, our country and and our psyche.

The Nizam-e-Adal law, will indeed, bring into the open, the very intentions of the Talibaan, for all to see.....

As I said, just wait a bit more!

and where exactly do u see all this in Nizam-i-Adal???? wat makes u think nizam-i-adal will allow all this to happen when we have already got a case in which verdict was given against taliban commander???
 
What i meant, was, that now they will be fully exposed, because there are many, and i mean, many, who still believe that all what the talibaan want is the imposition of Islamic law.

They want power and they want to overthrow even a semblance of any govt authority. Now, in a sense, the Pakistani Govt has agreed, to their demand, so now, we see what happens next! But i think we all know the likely outcome!
 
Just loo at how it was that Nazam E Adl came to be in Swat -- Whereas the Pakistani govt has made a show of parliamentary procedures and legality, the truth of the matter is that the legislation has come by force of arms and it is designed to arrest development of the society.

Will this be the case in all Pakistan, much depends on how the US reacts - if the world can be threatened by Pakistan playing a suicide card, then, no, it will not spread to the rest of pakistan - but if the US and therefore the world decides it can live with a talib Pakistan, then, yes, it will spread to the rest of Pakistan and everyone can be happy muslims enjoying "islamic" law.
 
Do you guys think that such a huge rebellion against GoP and Security Forces by Taliban is possible without Local Support?

I believe that somewhere there is some willingness of the Locals for the Shariat Laws. Other wise, it wouldn't be easy for insurgents to enter a land and ask for a change of system.
 
I follow the Islam in which every man and women has right to get education, where schools are not bombed, and the women are not mishandled, and dont spread Islam with Ak-47 and bazooka!!
 
please can you clear us if you know the difference between terrorist taliban and people who want Sharia in Swat. what i know Maulana Sufi is not kind of guy what you are chanting against him and his followers who supporting Sharia in Swat.

people keep using the word taliban without knowing its meaning, and who they actually are. it is known with facts that there are verious element of anti-islam/pakistan working while acting like taliban. i.e. my friend been in one of op in Tribal area and caught few indian agents dressed like mujahideen and even had close links with them. well how PA know they were indian which they later admited themself but before that when they were undressed for chittroll none of them had circumcision.:enjoy:

Sufi Muhammad is the head of a rebel military group TNSM and father in law of dear old Fazlullah (also a member of TNSM), this is the same Fazlullah who has been butchering all and sundry in Swat in the name of Islam...
Sufi Muhammad has already publicly stated that Fazlullah is a bit strict but did nothing wrong...actually TNSM and TTP do not accept any responsibility for the bloodshed orchestrated in SWAT....
Sufi Muhammad was arrested and then released to broker peace in the region to end the bloodshed, with such a shady past why should we trust Sufi Muhammad?

I have nothing against Islamic Law as obvious from my posts but by the same Law these people also should be given capital punishment.
Will the Taliban be punished for all the damage they have done???
That is something i am waiting to see, impatiently.
That alone shall determine whether it is Islamic values or power which was up for grabs and being fought upon by these organizations.

I do know people who hate TTP for damaging their lives work in these regions, people who have been threatened into cooperation..Forced at the point of a gun...maybe you cannot realize what it feels like to see your own being held at gunpoint...the fear of suicide attacks which blow away all to bits and leaves the loved ones shattered for all their lives.
What price will Fazlullah pay for his crimes?
What price will TTP pay for their crimes?

That will be the true test of Nizam-e-Adal and nothing else...charity begins at home, lets see how TTP answers for its crimes in front of Shariah Courts...they should be happy to die if sentenced by the Shariah courts...would you not agree?
Afterall they were willing to risk their lives to bring Shariah to Swat...
Absolute justice, absolute equality and an exemplary punishment to be meted out to the killers of innocents, that is what i expect.
 
When these barbarians:guns:, come to our cities and our homes, all across pakistan, and start whipping the female members of our families, then we will see!

Just wait! a bit more!

Not really you see the point you all are missing here is that her brother was also among the guys whipping her, meaning whatever happened wrong or right i am not going to go into that, happened with the consent of her family. So i don't see the connection that you are trying to establish here. Also remember sharia law is something people of SWAT too wanted themselves, its not like that is being imposed on them, people in Lahore or Islamabad or karachi does not want sharia law, so unless people want it it cannot be implemented by anyone no matter how force full they really are, in the end even taliban take their power from the locals.
 
stop blaming anyone without having any proof, and if you have any please share with us.

U dont know how many pakistanis are murdered by these talibans??
How many mosque are bombed by them??
How many muslim pakistan army men are killed by them!!
 
Tell me is there any one who has balls to live in swat with his mother and sisters??
 
What i meant, was, that now they will be fully exposed, because there are many, and i mean, many, who still believe that all what the talibaan want is the imposition of Islamic law.

They want power and they want to overthrow even a semblance of any govt authority. Now, in a sense, the Pakistani Govt has agreed, to their demand, so now, we see what happens next! But i think we all know the likely outcome!

and now islamic law has been imposed. this means now they dont have any moral ground left to fight GoP. not obeyin shariah courts will bring them in direct confrontation with TNSM and also the ppl. so i do think likely outcome will be alot better than could have been if we were to continue with the military operation
 
I follow the Islam in which every man and women has right to get education, where schools are not bombed, and the women are not mishandled, and dont spread Islam with Ak-47 and bazooka!!

i dont understand how will this new law allow taliban to carry out such acts. tell me wats wrong with this law??? i already know wat wrong with talibans
 

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