Was Iraq better off under Sadam Hussein ?

[Aepsilons]

@al-Hasani , @Arabian Knight @Arabian Legend , @Hazzy997 , @Kaan , @Sinan , @xenon54 , @Aeronaut , @Abu Nasar , et al,

I cannot help my feelings of utter dissatisfaction of what is going on now in Iraq. 12 years have passed since Saddam Hussein was toppled from power in Iraq, and the country still is destabilized, and extremism has unfurled in the country. Sectarian violence is unfathomable.

Do you think Iraq was better of under Saddam Hussein ? Or is it better off in its current position? Please share your opinions.



Regards,
@Nihonjin1051

 

[qamar1990]

seems like it probably was better.

 

[Hakan]

It was more stable no doubt but it was a dictatorship.

 

[-SINAN-]

Do you think Iraq was better of under Saddam Hussein ? Or is it better off in its current position? Please share your opinions.

Iraq under Saddam was awful and now it has gotten worse.... due to secterian policies of Maliki.

 

[al-Hasani]

@al-Hasani , @Arabian Knight @Arabian Legend , @Hazzy997 , @Kaan , @Sinan , @xenon54 , @Aeronaut , @Abu Nasar , et al,

I cannot help my feelings of utter dissatisfaction of what is going on now in Iraq. 12 years have passed since Saddam Hussein was toppled from power in Iraq, and the country still is destabilized, and extremism has unfurled in the country. Sectarian violence is unfathomable.

Do you think Iraq was better of under Saddam Hussein ? Or is it better off in its current position? Please share your opinions.



Regards,
@Nihonjin1051

The country was definitely safer. The sectarianism was kept in check too. Many Iraqi Shia Arabs like to tell a fairytale of Shias not being a part of the past system while most Shias were actually Ba'athi too. Many in the leadership too. Convinced too as many fought against the "Islamic" Iran during the Iraq-Iran war. Also Iraq is not a Western democracy today after the fall of Saddam Hussein. In many ways it's just a more sectarian continuation of what the previous dictatorships were all about. On SOME areas at least.

On the other hand there are not any large scale massacres anymore by the state (outside of state sponsored militias and discrimination), no leader worship (that's reserved for the clerics), more personal rights, a more inclusive political system etc.

But that question totally depends on which segment of the population you ask. The Sunnis will tell you that it was better before and the Shias that it's much better now. The Kurds will say the same.

Economy also has a lot to say here. Social rights too.

I am pretty certain that Iraq would be better off with a sane/responsible secular leader. Although a strongman like Saddam Hussein. Than the current lot.

Overall I would say it is better for the average Iraqi. In terms of Iraq as a country (stability wise) it's worse.

In all seriousness then Saddam Hussein was a madman who when he lived was largely disliked by ALL Iraqis but people tend to get another reputation after their deaths and when problems occur. Its' due to people romanticizing the past.

 

[Indus Falcon]

@Nihonjin1051 Well it seems John Kerry agrees with you

John Kerry says U.S. war on Iraq was serious mistake
July 01, 2014 -

BEIJING: US Secretary of State John Kerry admitted that the Iraq war was a serious mistake for which the sufferings continued even today, Geo News reported on Tuesday.

In an interview to Chinese news agency, US Secretary of State, John Kerry said he had termed this decision of former President George Bush going for war on Iraq a grave mistake.

Even today, the region's many problems are caused by the Iraq war, the U.S. is trying to address, citing example of President Obama’s pulling out the troops from Iraq, he said.


The statement of the US Secretary of State has come at a time when Iraq has already suffered an irreparable loss and the country is bleeding in a civil war.

John Kerry says U.S. war on Iraq was serious mistake - thenews.com.pk

 

[Aepsilons]

In my opinion, Saddam should not have invaded Kuwait , and should have merely consolidated its power and rebuilt itself after the Iraq-Irani War. The loss of Iraq's military power, led to such power vacuum that has allowed many organization(s) to capitalize on.

 

[Indus Falcon]

In my opinion, Saddam should not have invaded Kuwait , and should have merely consolidated its power and rebuilt itself after the Iraq-Irani War. The loss of Iraq's military power, led to such power vacuum that has allowed many organization(s) to capitalize on.

You do know why he invaded Kuwait?

 

[Aepsilons]

@Nihonjin1051 Well it seems John Kerry agrees with you

John Kerry says U.S. war on Iraq was serious mistake
July 01, 2014 -

BEIJING: US Secretary of State John Kerry admitted that the Iraq war was a serious mistake for which the sufferings continued even today, Geo News reported on Tuesday.

In an interview to Chinese news agency, US Secretary of State, John Kerry said he had termed this decision of former President George Bush going for war on Iraq a grave mistake.

Even today, the region's many problems are caused by the Iraq war, the U.S. is trying to address, citing example of President Obama’s pulling out the troops from Iraq, he said.

The statement of the US Secretary of State has come at a time when Iraq has already suffered an irreparable loss and the country is bleeding in a civil war.

John Kerry says U.S. war on Iraq was serious mistake - thenews.com.pk

America should not have invaded Iraq at all in 2003. They should have built dialogue and cooperated each other to allow balance in the region. The United States was not prepared for any nation building or capacity building . The consequences they are living with now is absolute.

Had Saddam been still alive, no doubt he would have Annihilated ISIS within a week's time. In my opinion, Iraq needs a strong and capable leader.

You do know why he invaded Kuwait?

My knowledge is a bit limited on it, @Abu Nasar , i know he claimed that Kuwait was monopolizing oil prices? Please go into detail, my friend.

 

[Desert Fox]

@Nihonjin1051 Well it seems John Kerry agrees with you

John Kerry says U.S. war on Iraq was serious mistake
July 01, 2014 -

BEIJING: US Secretary of State John Kerry admitted that the Iraq war was a serious mistake for which the sufferings continued even today, Geo News reported on Tuesday.

In an interview to Chinese news agency, US Secretary of State, John Kerry said he had termed this decision of former President George Bush going for war on Iraq a grave mistake.

Even today, the region's many problems are caused by the Iraq war, the U.S. is trying to address, citing example of President Obama’s pulling out the troops from Iraq, he said.

The statement of the US Secretary of State has come at a time when Iraq has already suffered an irreparable loss and the country is bleeding in a civil war.

John Kerry says U.S. war on Iraq was serious mistake - thenews.com.pk

There really is no point in these people making apologetic statements when all is said and done.

 

[Aepsilons]

There really is no point in these people making apologetic statements when all is said and done.

No apology can bring back 1,000,000 dead. Period.

 

[al-Hasani]

In my opinion, Saddam should not have invaded Kuwait , and should have merely consolidated its power and rebuilt itself after the Iraq-Irani War. The loss of Iraq's military power, led to such power vacuum that has allowed many organization(s) to capitalize on.

The problem with the pathetic state of the Iraqi army and in general instability has a lot to do with the whole system being abolished back in 2003. I mean everything started from a scratch. In fact Iraqis only became truly independent in December 2011 when the Americans left the country. Before the Americans were in control of all military affairs and they made all the progress.

And guess that the situation was back then? A divided Iraq. Thanks also to al-Malikis non-inclusive/sectarian policies and political failures.

Anyway the entire army was disbanded, local production stopped, the police was changed etc. Hundreds of thousands of ordinary Iraqis (Sunni and Shia) lost their jobs and income overnight. Because they were officials of the system. This created frustrations and made them join various armed groups which further destabilized a already weak central government.

There is always a vacuum after such strongmen especially after major wars/conflicts.

The Kurds obviously have taken full advantage of everything that has happened since 2003 and they have benefited the most.

The entire political system that the Americans implemented in Iraq does not work either. It was not a bad idea it just does not work in a country like Iraq CURRENTLY. One day, maybe.

 

[Desert Fox]

No apology can bring back 1,000,000 dead. Period.

Kerry is just another Politician. It's his job to capitalize on the failures of his political adversaries not because he genuinely feels sad for the 1,000,000 dead Iraqis or the thousands of American troops who died in the pointless war, but because that is what he's supposed to do. Where were these people when millions of Iraqis were dying of malnutrition in the 1990's during the sanctions imposed on their country or when Bush invaded in 2003??

These politicians only care about their pockets and who's going to stuff them. There is no democracy in America.

 

[al-Hasani]

Kerry is just another Politician. It's his job to capitalize on the failures of his political adversaries not because he genuinely feels sad for the 1,000,000 dead Iraqis or the thousands of American troops who died in the pointless war, but because that is what he's supposed to do. Where were these people when millions of Iraqis were dying of malnutrition in the 1990's during the sanctions imposed on their country or when Bush invaded in 2003??

These politicians only care about their pockets and who's going to stuff them. There is no democracy in America.

Anyway I still struggle to see what the Americans exactly accomplished? I mean what was the initial plan? The foreign policy under Bush Junior was simply terrible.

If the Iraq War was about weakening Iran then they failed tremendously. Influence as well. Natural resources too. Unless the plan was always to make the current Iraq a largely satellite state of Iran (I am overreacting for the sake of my argument) and eventually become friends with Iran again?

In short it was a utter failure. Economically and politically.

Where is that 1,000,000 big number coming from btw?

 

[Desert Fox]

Anyway I still struggle to see what the Americans exactly accomplished? I mean what was the initial plan? The foreign policy under Bush Junior was simply terrible.

If the Iraq War was about weakening Iran then they failed tremendously. Influence as well. Natural resources too. Unless the plan was always to make the current Iraq a largely satellite state of Iran (I am overreacting for the sake of my argument) and eventually become friends with Iran again?

In short it was a utter failure. Economically and politically.

We will never know, but there was a sinister purpose. Whether it was achieved or not, we won't know for sure. But i do know this for certain that the end result was definitely not beneficial to American interests in any way. So this definitely wasn't a war fought for the security and National Interests of America.

Where is that 1,000,000 big number coming from btw?

Iraq conflict has killed a million Iraqis: survey| Reuters

Iraq’s Shocking Human Toll: About 1 Million Killed, 4.5 Million Displaced, 1-2 Million Widows, 5 Million Orphans | Global Research

There are other websites that dispute this number. But nonetheless this war was pointless IMHO.