Dhaka must protest at Delhi’s insulting Bangladesh war narrative

[extra terrestrial]

I have explained it for countless times here...

The Bengali Army personnel never wanted any military intervention of India... They were fighting under the strategy written in the Teliapara document", formulated by the sector commanders. The strategy was split into three phases involving guerrilla warfare to full fledged conventional war and predicted to achieve independence within three years at most...

Indian troops had joined Bangladesh’s freedom fighters on December 3, 1971, which had definitely expedited the victory over the enemy forces of Pakistan, but the Indian physical involvement in the war field, despite the sacrifice of lives of about 1,500 Indian troops on the soil of Bangladesh, was in no way the decisive factor behind Bangladesh victory. AK Khandaker, deputy chief of staff of the Armed Forces of Bangladesh in 1971, says that ‘physical strength of the Pakistan forces had been exhausted, and psychological morale reached down the lowest ebb, before the commencement of the war [with India] on December 3.’ Khaled Mosharraf, a reputed sector commander of the liberation war, said in a post-independence interview that ‘the Indian army just walked in when we, the Mukti Bahini, had already finished the job’. In rather a conservative analysis, the commander-in-chief of the Mukti Bahini, AG Osmani, said in a post-independence interview that ‘if the Indian forces had not come into the war directly, the Mukti Bahini itself would have liberated the country within six [more] months’.

^It just echoes my comment...

 

[Nilgiri]

Bray? A whole nation described as donkeys?

I'm talking about those that incessantly repeat the 3 million genocide claim after having enough exposure to other sources.

How does that apply to a whole nation? Most people don't even have time to think or talk about this stuff.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I'm talking about those that incessantly repeat the 3 million genocide claim after having enough exposure to other sources.

How does that apply to a whole nation? Most people don't even have time to think or talk about this stuff.

There are hundreds of thousands believing that, rightly or, as many of us think, wrongly. How did you presume that those you were denigrating had those beliefs? How can you use such a broad brush?

What is your problem with Bangladesh and Bangladeshis? This is obsessive behaviour, and displays a disturbed mentality.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Actually yes. If India didn't get involved, the insurgency would have been crushed.

It is possible to give you a pretty detailed answer but it is pointless in this case when one single word can suffice, besides saving your time. That is,

Ghanta.

Except for one significant difference. No West Pakistani would have survived the 'war'.

 

[Nilgiri]

Heck India couldn't even keep peace in SriLanka with 70,000 soldiers operating in less than 15000 squared miles area. India ended up fighting and losing to a force it funded, trained , and built. We all know what LTTE did to Rajiv Gandhi after India's unglorified exit from Sri Lanka..

Lol completely different rules of engagement.

If there was no Indian intervention in East Pakistan by training and arming the Mukti Bahini and then the final invasion....Pakistan would have crushed the rebellion over a longer period of time. India would not have challenged Pakistani arms and troops shipments for example. Pakistan definitely had enough local support too, ask @Arefin007 for his personal story.

You were basically quite fortunate that India and Pakistan were already dead-set enemies. Some would say thats what really added impetus to the Pakistan civil war in the time frame in question.

There are hundreds of thousands believing that, rightly or, as many of us think, wrongly. How did you presume that those you were denigrating had those beliefs? How can you use such a broad brush?

What is your problem with Bangladesh and Bangladeshis? This is obsessive behaviour, and displays a disturbed mentality.

When these defence board clowns talk about splitting up a country that was a major reason for their liberation/independence (and not just once or twice, but repeatedly)....I basically see why the concept of Pakistan crystalised over there and why they eventually betrayed that cause too.

BD "elite" on defence boards...in general less said about them the better.

A couple posts here and there is all I am posting now. You do not need to be nagging me or psycho-analysing me for each one (and I won't do the same for you), if there is a forum violation, please point it out or report it.

How am I denigrating anyone beyond those that keep quoting the 3 million genocide number? Firstly, it only involves the people here in this forum and secondly I stated it only applies to those that do so specifically and repeatedly. Yes they do end up sounding like donkeys. Nothing about a whole country.

Now I am taking leave from this conversation, please don't quote me anymore.

And no I am not going to tag you each and every place in this forum earlier to point out why I interact with them the way I do....I really can't be bothered.

A good number of them have clearly stated India is the enemy nation for them (on both sides of their political divide). Thus such people I oppose and show the mirror to. If that denigrates them or seems denigrating, thats too bad. Anyway its history now given I have made my position quite clear as to how I will be interacting with them now.

I am not going to be posting many replies anymore, they will be quite infrequent but measured and targeted responses well within the forum rules.

If you find that venomous, so be it.

 

[Bilal9]

Bray? A whole nation described as donkeys?

Ha ha ha LOL

I'm sure he didn't mean that....

 

[Homo Sapiens]

Comparing apples to oranges. If India didn't interfere, Pakistan would have continued its campaign, because BD was a part of Pakistan, thus Pakistan wouldn't be going anywhere. The US was in foreign territory, Pakistan was not.

Bangladesh was more foreign territory for Pakistan than Vietnam was for US.Atleast South Vietnam was allied with US.But in BD, entire country bar a few stray rajakar was at war with Pak occupation force.A third world country like Pakistan,with only 45,000 men force stationed thousand miles away without heavy military equipment against 75 million hostile population have no chance.Even if India didn't intervened BD would have been independent within 2 or 3 years.Indian intervention only accelerated the process,nothing more.

 

[Bilal9]

Lol completely different rules of engagement.

If there was no Indian intervention in East Pakistan by training and arming the Mukti Bahini and then the final invasion....Pakistan would have crushed the rebellion over a longer period of time. India would not have challenged Pakistani arms and troops shipments for example. Pakistan definitely had enough local support too, ask @Arefin007 for his personal story.

You were basically quite fortunate that India and Pakistan were already dead-set enemies. Some would say thats what really added impetus to the Pakistan civil war in the time frame in question.



When these defence board clowns talk about splitting up a country that was a major reason for their liberation/independence (and not just once or twice, but repeatedly)....I basically see why the concept of Pakistan crystalised over there and why they eventually betrayed that cause too.

BD "elite" on defence boards...in general less said about them the better.

A couple posts here and there is all I am posting now. You do not need to be nagging me or psycho-analysing me for each one (and I won't do the same for you), if there is a forum violation, please point it out or report it.

How am I denigrating anyone beyond those that keep quoting the 3 million genocide number? Firstly, it only involves the people here in this forum and secondly I stated it only applies to those that do so specifically and repeatedly. Yes they do end up sounding like donkeys. Nothing about a whole country.

Now I am taking leave from this conversation, please don't quote me anymore.

And no I am not going to tag you each and every place in this forum earlier to point out why I interact with them the way I do....I really can't be bothered.

A good number of them have clearly stated India is the enemy nation for them (on both sides of their political divide). Thus such people I oppose and show the mirror to. If that denigrates them or seems denigrating, thats too bad. Anyway its history now given I have made my position quite clear as to how I will be interacting with them now.

I am not going to be posting many replies anymore, they will be quite infrequent but measured and targeted responses well within the forum rules.

If you find that venomous, so be it.

Jeez.

Take a Chill Pill brother......a dozen people on the PDF forum throwing mud once in a while do not represent a whole nation. No one is hating on India - people in Bangladesh have better things to do - like earn a living and raise families, rather than push anti-India agendas all the time.

If you're in Toronto, there's a whole truckload of Bangladeshis in Brampton and Mississauga. Do all of them look like India-haters to you? Maybe not India-lovers, but certainly not India-haters....

Instead of forming opinions from far away - get to know them.....not all of them are so bad.....

 

[Acknowledge]

If India had not gotten involved, there would be no Bangladesh today.

India not only single handedly trained, armed and supplied the entire Mukti Bahini's, we also took over the care taking of millions and millions of refugees.

India then went on to ensure that US and West did not come to physically aid Pakistan and that reinforcements from West Pakistan did not reach East Pakistan. We shut down major transit corridors.

Then we got other world powers to sign on to Bangladesh cause.

Despite that, India saw that Mukti's were not able to succeed against Pakistani Army. It is difficult for a guerilla force to physically win over territory from a conventional army. It was at that point it was decided that a direct intervention would be required.

That said and done,

Ultimately, however India would not have succeeded if Bangladeshis did not want freedom and had not supported India as well.

There is no reason for Bangladeshis to feel bad about. All nations need support in different times of history. No one can manage everything on their own. Bangladesh is a friend of India. I have no hesitations in saying we did everything together and without both of us putting forth our efforts, we would not have been rewarded as we were.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Lol completely different rules of engagement.

If there was no Indian intervention in East Pakistan by training and arming the Mukti Bahini and then the final invasion....Pakistan would have crushed the rebellion over a longer period of time. India would not have challenged Pakistani arms and troops shipments for example. Pakistan definitely had enough local support too, ask @Arefin007 for his personal story.

You were basically quite fortunate that India and Pakistan were already dead-set enemies. Some would say thats what really added impetus to the Pakistan civil war in the time frame in question.



When these defence board clowns talk about splitting up a country that was a major reason for their liberation/independence (and not just once or twice, but repeatedly)....I basically see why the concept of Pakistan crystalised over there and why they eventually betrayed that cause too.

BD "elite" on defence boards...in general less said about them the better.

A couple posts here and there is all I am posting now. You do not need to be nagging me or psycho-analysing me for each one (and I won't do the same for you), if there is a forum violation, please point it out or report it.

How am I denigrating anyone beyond those that keep quoting the 3 million genocide number? Firstly, it only involves the people here in this forum and secondly I stated it only applies to those that do so specifically and repeatedly. Yes they do end up sounding like donkeys. Nothing about a whole country.

Now I am taking leave from this conversation, please don't quote me anymore.

And no I am not going to tag you each and every place in this forum earlier to point out why I interact with them the way I do....I really can't be bothered.

A good number of them have clearly stated India is the enemy nation for them (on both sides of their political divide). Thus such people I oppose and show the mirror to. If that denigrates them or seems denigrating, thats too bad. Anyway its history now given I have made my position quite clear as to how I will be interacting with them now.

I am not going to be posting many replies anymore, they will be quite infrequent but measured and targeted responses well within the forum rules.

If you find that venomous, so be it.

Good enough for me.

We will play by the rules, strictly.

Ha ha ha LOL

I'm sure he didn't mean that....

Then why the bloody hell does he put it that way?

 

[Nilgiri]

Jeez.

Take a Chill Pill brother......a dozen people on the PDF forum throwing mud once in a while do not represent a whole nation. No one is hating on India - people in Bangladesh have better things to do - like earn a living and raise families, rather than push anti-India agendas all the time.

If you're in Toronto, there's a whole truckload of Bangladeshis in Brampton and Mississauga. Do all of them look like India-haters to you? Maybe not India-lovers, but certainly not India-haters....

Instead of forming opinions from far away - get to know them.....not all of them are so bad.....

Why are you answering. You know that I have said many times I have good number of BD friends.

I am specifically talking about the defence board types. This is also a phenomenon that extends to other nations of people too overall.

With BD in this forum, its quite particular for me given I came trying to learn and over time got nothing but insults thrown at my country and people (and worse but I wont go there...its history) when I started questioning certain things....and then it broadened to all kinds of crazy talk about destroying India or occupying parts of it as "inevitable" and such and such. The back and forth trolling was fun I will admit too, but ok looks like various people's feelings have gotten hurt now so time to move on and accept all that stuff has run its course now. That does not mean I am not going to shy away from explaining why it happened.

You really think I would be friends with BD people in real life if this extended to something past a really small minority?

You know how many BD people I have defended and sided with against loud mouth arrogant Indian (mostly north indian it has to be said) people in real life? Or had to defend them physically from all sorts of racists and general idiots (and I know they got my back too). Or be their wingman in clubs and such during the fun earlier years

I have talked about taking a bullet for my Real life BD friends if needed...people who's weddings Ive attended and who have given me open invitation to come to BD one day (which I will definitely do sometime for sure).

I would think you would be one of the last people that would hint at extrapolating defence board silliness and counter-silliness to real life. Come on, you know me better than that.

Then why the bloody hell does he put it that way?

OK I will be extra careful next time in the wording just for you.

So much stuff to remember hehe.

 

[Bilal9]

Bangladesh was more foreign territory for Pakistan than Vietnam was for US.Atleast South Vietnam was allied with US.But in BD, entire country bar a few stray rajakar was at war with Pak occupation force.A third world country like Pakistan,with only 45,000 men force stationed thousand miles away without heavy military equipment against 75 million hostile population have no chance.Even if India didn't intervened BD would have been independent within 2 or 3 years.Indian intervention only accelerated the process,nothing more.

I'd have to agree.

The Mukti Bahini or infamous 'Mukut Fouz' as the PA called them (love them or hate them) - did a very effective job of ambushing transport/supply lines and infrastructure. They did the majority of the heavy-lifting for the war-of-attrition during the wet season (April through November) and disrupted rail-lines, electrical infrastructure, bridges, culverts and brought the Pakistan Army to its knees as far as communication.

As time went on - they got bolder and started attacking major army camps and installation, some very heavily defended. Being locals, their knowledge of the terrain helped immensely. For Pakistani Army it was not a level playing field for sure.

Only in November did the IA move in, field a few skirmishes and line up infantry/tanks but by that time the PA was in dire straits. My senior family members told me about Indian amphibious tanks fording rivers and coming up through the Dhaka-Chittagong Highway because all the bridges had been blown up by that time.

I can certainly understand the Indian Army's need for claiming complete credit for victory but reality on the ground was different. Yet Bangladeshi in their right minds cannot deny India's assistance in our time of need.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Why are you answering. You know that I have said many times I have good number of BD friends.

I am specifically talking about the defence board types. This is also a phenomenon that extends to other nations of people too overall.

With BD in this forum, its quite particular for me given I came trying to learn and over time got nothing but insults thrown at my country and people (and worse but I wont go there...its history) when I started questioning certain things....and then it broadened to all kinds of crazy talk about destroying India or occupying parts of it as "inevitable" and such and such. The back and forth trolling was fun I will admit too, but ok looks like various people's feelings have gotten hurt now so time to move on and accept all that stuff has run its course now. That does not mean I am not going to shy away from explaining why it happened.

You really think I would be friends with BD people in real life if this extended to something past a really small minority?

You know how many BD people I have defended and sided with against loud mouth arrogant Indian (mostly north indian it has to be said) people in real life? Or had to defend them physically from all sorts of racists and general idiots (and I know they got my back too). Or be their wingman in clubs and such during the fun earlier years

I have talked about taking a bullet for my Real life BD friends if needed...people who's weddings Ive attended and who have given me open invitation to come to BD one day (which I will definitely do sometime for sure).

I would think you would be one of the last people that would hint at extrapolating defence board silliness and counter-silliness to real life. Come on, you know me better than that.



OK I will be extra careful next time in the wording just for you.

So much stuff to remember hehe.

I would rather reply in a calmer frame of mind. Right now, it will end up in something that we will both regret. All right, perhaps only I will regret.

Nothing justifies the sweeping statements and the nation-wide epithets; that is in no way explained away by talking about the 'defence board' types.

Let this pass. We will see.

 

[Bilal9]

Then why the bloody hell does he put it that way?

I think he meant 'betray'.....

In any case an older brother does not fault every misstep of the younger generation - take things in stride and with patience....we expect nothing less of a person of your stature.

অনুজ দের প্রতি অযথা বিরক্ত হবেন না দাদা। যেতে দিন। ছেড়ে দিন। সব ই বয়সের দোষ। ওর রক্ত একটু গরম আরকি।

 

[Nilgiri]

I would rather reply in a calmer frame of mind. Right now, it will end up in something that we will both regret. All right, perhaps only I will regret.

Nothing justifies the sweeping statements and the nation-wide epithets; that is in no way explained away by talking about the 'defence board' types.

Let this pass. We will see.

If I could start again, a million miles away....I will keep myself....I would find a way.