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Doklam issue: China’s Xi Jinping has a PLA problem

Gurjot.S

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The Doklam debate has missed one key element: The mutual withdrawal deal was clinched just after Chinese President Xi Jinping replaced the chief of the People Liberation Army’s (PLA) joint staff department. This topmost position – equivalent to the chairman of the U.S. joint chiefs of staff – was created only last year as part of Xi’s military reforms to turn the PLA into a force “able to fight and win wars”.

The Doklam pullbacks suggest that the removed chief, General Fang Fenghui, was an obstacle to clinching a deal with India and probably was responsible for precipitating the standoff in the first place. Fang was fired just days after he hosted America’s highest-ranking military officer, General Joseph Dunford.

To be sure, this was not the first time that PLA belligerence in the Himalayas imposed diplomatic costs on China. A classic case was what happened when Chinese President Xi Jinping reached India on a state visit in September 2014. Xi arrived on Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s birthday with a strange gift for his host — a predawn Chinese military encroachment deep into Ladakh. The encroachment, the worst in many years in terms of the number of intruding troops, overshadowed Xi’s visit.

It is bizarre that the PLA would seek to mar in this manner the visit of its own head of state to a key neighbouring country. Yet Chinese Premier Li Keqiang’s earlier visit to New Delhi in 2013 was similarly preceded by a 19-km PLA incursion into another part of Ladakh that lasted three weeks.

Such provocations might suggest that they are intentional, with the Chinese government in the know, thus reflecting a preference for blending soft and hard tactics. But it is also possible that the provocations underscore the continuing “disconnect between the military and the civilian leadership” in China that then U.S. Defence Secretary Robert Gates had in 2011 warned about.

Xi’s purges of generals and admirals and other reform-related actions have been designed to consolidate his authority over the PLA and ensure that it does not blindside the government. But as Fang’s firing and other latest changes in the PLA leadership highlight, Xi is still working to bring the military fully under his control.

During his 2014 India visit, Xi appeared embarrassed by the accompanying PLA encroachment and assured Modi that he would sort it out upon his return.

Soon after he returned, the Chinese defence ministry quoted Xi as telling a closed-door meeting with PLA commanders that “all PLA forces should follow his instructions” and that the military must display “absolute loyalty and firm faith in the party.” He has conveyed that same message repeatedly since then, including recently on the 90th anniversary of the PLA’s creation. Had civil control of the PLA been working well, would Xi repeatedly be demanding “absolute loyalty” from the military or asking it to “follow his instructions”?

Under Xi’s two immediate predecessors, Hu Jintao and Jiang Zemin, the PLA gradually became stronger at the expense of the party. The military’s growing power has troubled Xi, a former military reservist whose present wife — folk singer Peng Liyuan — is a civilian member of the PLA, holding a rank equivalent to major general.

As part of his effort to reassert party control over the military and carry out defence reforms, Xi has used his anti-corruption campaign to ensnare a number of top PLA officers. He has also cut the size of the ground force and established a new command-and-control structure.

But just as a dog’s tail cannot be straightened, asserting full civil control over the PLA is proving very challenging. After all, the party is ideologically and morally adrift and depends on the PLA to sustain its political monopoly and ensure domestic order. The PLA, with its soaring budgets and expanding role to safeguard China’s overseas interests, sees itself as the ultimate arbiter of Chinese nationalism.

The structural change in China parallels what happened in Imperial Japan, which rose dramatically as a world power in one generation after the 1868 Meiji Restoration. Boosted by war victories against Manchu-ruled China and Tsarist Russia, the Japanese military gradually went on to dictate terms to the civilian government, with tragic consequences.

The PLA’s increasing clout has led China to stake out a more muscular role, including resurrecting territorial and maritime disputes, asserting new sovereignty claims, and using construction activity to change the status quo. It won’t be long before the PLA rekindles Himalayan tensions with a new encroachment.

China’s internal politics clearly has a bearing on its external policy. China’s prospective rise as a praetorian state will adversely affect the security of its neighbours.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/analy...pla-problem/story-bEqRc9linyioqwKJGUP0aO.html
 
I had forseen a internal power struggle lo g back which would lead to civil war and eventual break up of china.
 
The Doklam debate has missed one key element: The mutual withdrawal deal was clinched just after Chinese President Xi Jinping replaced the chief of the People Liberation Army’s (PLA) joint staff department. This topmost position – equivalent to the chairman of the U.S. joint chiefs of staff – was created only last year as part of Xi’s military reforms to turn the PLA into a force “able to fight and win wars”.
What mutual withdrawal are you talking about.
Don't keep lying.
India cowardly stood down unilaterally, Period.
The next General better not make the same mistake of allowing the Indians squat on Chinese lands. Its a terrible shortcoming that the trespassing Indian soldiers were not escorted to the heavens the moment they step over the border.
.
 
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Except there was no mutual withdrawal. :lol: The Chinese foreign minister has officially stated that Chinese troops remain in Donglang, and that China is setting up permanent garissons there. As well as completing the road too.

India unilaterally retreated from Donglang, and handed over Bhutan's territory to China. Only Indians can consider an Indian unilateral retreat, and China's increase in net territory as a victory, just like 1962.
 
India fired it's defense minister Arun Jaitley that started the Doklam incident. Arun Jaitley had said, "India of 2017 is different from India of 1962. What message does that send?

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SitharamanPTI21.jpg

New defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman must take cue from her predecessors and not repeat mistakes
 
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...d-to-name-combat-veteran-to-top-military-post
Thursday, August 24, 2017
China's Xi Names Combat Veteran to Top Military Post
Li’s appointment to the post -- created last year as part of the largest military overhaul in six decades -- underscores Xi’s desire to turn the 2.3 million member PLA into force “able to fight and win wars.” China hasn’t been involved in a major conflict since the border clash with Vietnam.

The appointment of War Veteran General Li Zuocheng frightened the shit off the Indians, confirming that war with China is impending.
That explains the quick cowardly unilateral stand down of the Indians without any concessions from China.
.
 
The Doklam debate has missed one key element: The mutual withdrawal deal was clinched just after Chinese President Xi Jinping replaced the chief of the People Liberation Army’s (PLA) joint staff department. This topmost position – equivalent to the chairman of the U.S. joint chiefs of staff – was created only last year as part of Xi’s military reforms to turn the PLA into a force “able to fight and win wars”.

The Doklam pullbacks suggest that the removed chief, General Fang Fenghui, was an obstacle to clinching a deal with India and probably was responsible for precipitating the standoff in the first place. Fang was fired just days after he hosted America’s highest-ranking military officer, General Joseph Dunford.

To be sure, this was not the first time that PLA belligerence in the Himalayas imposed diplomatic costs on China. A classic case was what happened when Chinese President Xi Jinping reached India on a state visit in September 2014. Xi arrived on Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s birthday with a strange gift for his host — a predawn Chinese military encroachment deep into Ladakh. The encroachment, the worst in many years in terms of the number of intruding troops, overshadowed Xi’s visit.

It is bizarre that the PLA would seek to mar in this manner the visit of its own head of state to a key neighbouring country. Yet Chinese Premier Li Keqiang’s earlier visit to New Delhi in 2013 was similarly preceded by a 19-km PLA incursion into another part of Ladakh that lasted three weeks.

Such provocations might suggest that they are intentional, with the Chinese government in the know, thus reflecting a preference for blending soft and hard tactics. But it is also possible that the provocations underscore the continuing “disconnect between the military and the civilian leadership” in China that then U.S. Defence Secretary Robert Gates had in 2011 warned about.

Xi’s purges of generals and admirals and other reform-related actions have been designed to consolidate his authority over the PLA and ensure that it does not blindside the government. But as Fang’s firing and other latest changes in the PLA leadership highlight, Xi is still working to bring the military fully under his control.

During his 2014 India visit, Xi appeared embarrassed by the accompanying PLA encroachment and assured Modi that he would sort it out upon his return.

Soon after he returned, the Chinese defence ministry quoted Xi as telling a closed-door meeting with PLA commanders that “all PLA forces should follow his instructions” and that the military must display “absolute loyalty and firm faith in the party.” He has conveyed that same message repeatedly since then, including recently on the 90th anniversary of the PLA’s creation. Had civil control of the PLA been working well, would Xi repeatedly be demanding “absolute loyalty” from the military or asking it to “follow his instructions”?

Under Xi’s two immediate predecessors, Hu Jintao and Jiang Zemin, the PLA gradually became stronger at the expense of the party. The military’s growing power has troubled Xi, a former military reservist whose present wife — folk singer Peng Liyuan — is a civilian member of the PLA, holding a rank equivalent to major general.

As part of his effort to reassert party control over the military and carry out defence reforms, Xi has used his anti-corruption campaign to ensnare a number of top PLA officers. He has also cut the size of the ground force and established a new command-and-control structure.

But just as a dog’s tail cannot be straightened, asserting full civil control over the PLA is proving very challenging. After all, the party is ideologically and morally adrift and depends on the PLA to sustain its political monopoly and ensure domestic order. The PLA, with its soaring budgets and expanding role to safeguard China’s overseas interests, sees itself as the ultimate arbiter of Chinese nationalism.

The structural change in China parallels what happened in Imperial Japan, which rose dramatically as a world power in one generation after the 1868 Meiji Restoration. Boosted by war victories against Manchu-ruled China and Tsarist Russia, the Japanese military gradually went on to dictate terms to the civilian government, with tragic consequences.

The PLA’s increasing clout has led China to stake out a more muscular role, including resurrecting territorial and maritime disputes, asserting new sovereignty claims, and using construction activity to change the status quo. It won’t be long before the PLA rekindles Himalayan tensions with a new encroachment.

China’s internal politics clearly has a bearing on its external policy. China’s prospective rise as a praetorian state will adversely affect the security of its neighbours.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/analy...pla-problem/story-bEqRc9linyioqwKJGUP0aO.html
'Mutual' withdrawal
'Encroachment' into Ladahk

Hindustantimes

No1 is stopping u from posting this in 'central n south asia' section as masturbation material

But wanna post in 'china n Far east section', please dont use home audience sources.
 
Except there was no mutual withdrawal. :lol: The Chinese foreign minister has officially stated that Chinese troops remain in Donglang, and that China is setting up permanent garissons there. As well as completing the road too.

India unilaterally retreated from Donglang, and handed over Bhutan's territory to China. Only Indians can consider an Indian unilateral retreat, and China's increase in net territory as a victory, just like 1962.

Asked if China had agreed to stop road construction, Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying told reporters: "I can tell you that Chinese border troops continue to station and patrol in the Donglang area. In order to defend the needs of defending the border and improve living conditions, China has long engaged in road construction in Donglang area. We will take into account all relevant factors including the weather and we will make plans, including for road construction, in accordance with the situation on the ground."

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/india-china-border-dispute-doklam-road/1/1036185.html

btw, what are the relevant factors your minister talked about ? or its just another spin ?

'Mutual' withdrawal
'Encroachment' into Ladahk

Hindustantimes

No1 is stopping u from posting this in 'central n south asia' section as masturbation material

But wanna post in 'china n Far east section', please dont use home audience sources.

it was about Xi's control over PLA not particularly related to Dokhlam. understood wannabe chinese ?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...d-to-name-combat-veteran-to-top-military-post
Thursday, August 24, 2017
China's Xi Names Combat Veteran to Top Military Post
Li’s appointment to the post -- created last year as part of the largest military overhaul in six decades -- underscores Xi’s desire to turn the 2.3 million member PLA into force “able to fight and win wars.” China hasn’t been involved in a major conflict since the border clash with Vietnam.

The appointment of War Veteran General Li Zuocheng frightened the shit off the Indians, confirming that war with China is impending.
That explains the quick cowardly unilateral stand down of the Indians without any concessions from China.
.

No body here thinks that chinese wont repeat dokhlam again. Yes, This new general will take the count of chinese warnings to 100 unlike 70 this time.
 
What mutual withdrawal are you talking about.
Don't keep lying.
India cowardly stood down unilaterally, Period.
The next General better not make the same mistake of allowing the Indians squat on Chinese lands. Its a terrible shortcoming that the trespassing Indian soldiers were not escorted to the heavens the moment they step over the border.
.
All this happened while I was banned for 2 long months. I was wondering if this is a friendly site or now has it been converted to pro - India.
Indians are banned for weeks and Chinese members banned for months. Makes me wonder.

It used to be seasonal outposts before the standoff. permanent garissons means China achieved Actual Control over doklam.

Indians are just too easy to fool...still obsessing over some road:sarcastic:
End result - India handed Donglang to the Chinese on a silver platter?
 
All this happened while I was banned for 2 long months. I was wondering if this is a friendly site or now has it been converted to pro - India.
Indians are banned for weeks and Chinese members banned for months. Makes me wonder.

End result - India handed Donglang to the Chinese on a silver platter?
End result - surprisingly happy ending.
Surprised that the Indians will stand down unilaterally without any concessions from China.

Welcome back, I was shorthanded during your absence.
2 months ban ! Wow !
I will take a back seat now that our seasoned combatant is back.

That is a problem for me as well, its frustrating that they did not state the reason for the ban.
I think they increase the ban period for each subsequent ban.
I guess the mods job is tedious and they have problem handling the huge amount of reporting and troll posts cleaning that they may have accidentally given you a 2 months holiday.
I think they are fair and don't discriminate, but honest mistakes and slight bias are bound to occur.
You will notice they also ban their own nationals.
I also noticed they will ban both members engaged in that troll fest notwithstanding who started it.
Be careful, will miss your sharp and enlightening comments if you go holiday again.
.
 

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