Pakistan Defence

Thank you for your compliment. I think you are referring Xinjiang topic.

IMO, it's quite tough. I think it's culture conflict. Both sides have deep belief on their opinions. Also there are misunderstanding on China Xinjiang policy, Pakistanis may not know Xinjiang history and political motivation well.

Chinese praise collectivism because thousands years fighting against flood of yellow river(one of the toughest river on earth). Only collectivism can make us survive. The psychological impacts on Chinese is that collectivism is preferred than individual liberty including religion.

In China, government always be first throughout thousands years of history. No central government, no China.

Xinjiang issues are "terrorism, separatism and religious extremism". Those issues won't be tolerated by Chinese government and people. Chinese has very strong belief that measures must be taken.

On the other hand, Pakistan is a country built on Islam, no Islam no Pakistan unity. So Islam religion is the most important thing in Pakistan, IMO. The war between Pakistan and India strengthened both side on religions, so Hinduism is more and more popular.

Both opinions have deep social roots and I don't think it will change by words.

My personal experience is when an adult beyond 30+, it's extremely hard to change his belief.

I won't waste my time to change other people's belief. I do my duty, leave it as it is.

PDF is just a forum. Pakistan foreign policy maker won't take our views into account. Some Pakistanis disagree our doing, we can agree on disagree.

It's not about Xinjiang along. You're so level headed and knowledge-able in any thread that I read in PDF.

About Xinjiang, Yes. Both Pakistani and Chinese have their own point of view based on their value and belief. Which is very fundamentally different to each others. I've said that in Xinjiang thread. But they still not satisfied, and not taking "agree to disagree".

So, you live in United States or in China?

Thank you. I live in US.

PDF helps me to put myself in Pakistanis' shoes, or Iranians', or Arabians'. It helps me to challenge the philosophy I believed for years.

I like this forum, it's vibrant. But I don't believe discussion can resolve anything or bring progress. If you read my post, you knew I strongly against so called "Free Speech". So called "Free Speech" brought wisdom here and there, but mostly chaos and conflicts all over the world. Especially in developing countries where the media is so corrupt and manipulated.

I think you are ethnic Chinese. China was so weak in 1998, I feel so sorry and bad.

I read your post too. I like your post. Many who live in "Free Speech" environment are open minded and have more balanced views.

Thank you. I don't think that there is a real "Free Speech" in this world. There is only an illusion about that. . And I don't believe that there is a real freedom either. Even in countries like Europe and America, there is no real "Free Speech" and "Freedom". Free Speech is restricted by what we call as "Political Correctness". While freedom is limited by law.

The problem of Chinese posters in PDF, and also Chinese Mainland Tourists in general are that their political correctness is so different from the rest of the world. They're like Alien for everyone else. People who are so different that cross the line in every political correctness that has been embraced by most people in this world; specially in developed countries.

IMO, the current political correctness is built on liberal hegemony. and the end of hegemony is coming, let alone liberalism. There is no such political correctness back to 30 years ago. In year 1990, you can't image US politician support same-sex marriage, in year 2000, no US candidate do this either.

I believe political correctness is just like fashion. China and Chinese has no interest to follow their political fashions.

I agree Chinese in general have less awareness of the rest of the world. We disagree their political correctness fundamentally. Chinese think their political correctness makes no sense, at least won’t work in China.

Chinese live in a different world, more homogeneous, political discussion has more limitation. Chinese are less sensitive on other society, culture and religions.

In the end of day, I think liberalism won’t resolve any social issues, especially in developing countries. Only make it worse. Just like communism, liberalism have to change to adapt people’s needs, not the other way around.

Well, political correctness is not only about Same Sex Marriage nor feminism. But also about politeness, respect, and public behavior. There is also about "Racism" and "Religion respect".

So if you talk about free speech, I think Chinese Mainland Posters exercize more "Free Speech" because they don't care about "Political Correctness". That's why they tend to be responded with hostility by others.

Totally agree. I use same-sex marriage as example. There are many other political correctness.

Some political correctness do make sense, most of them don't in Chinese opinion.

Politeness, respect, and public behavior is universal I believe. Don't expect too much from a country which went through Cultural Revolution 40 yeas ago and so poor. China grow too fast, the people can't catch up with the economy, it will take at least 2 generations I think.

Thanks bro. It always interesting when discussing with you. And that's condition is also my basis when I post in Xinjiang threads.

They can avoid some hostility I believe. They don't want to. That's the problem.

There are things hide in our Chinese heart. A nation humiliated by one century, dislike finger-pointing. It's knee jerk reflex.

Some posters hide behind the flags, provoke and create chaos and mistrust. Propaganda is big business.