Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[RPK]

Ce jeudi deux officiers indiens ont volé sur Rafale... - capitaine-romain


This Thursday, two Indian officers have flown in Rafale

Saturday, 20 March, 2010

This Thursday, March 18, two Indian officers were able to explore and test by themselves all the qualities of the Rafale.

After a morning briefing the Indian pilot -- very experienced pilot on board a plane just for him - Could take off in his Rafale, intercept and identify a fighterr with optical sighting of Rafale, engage multiple targets air-sourced located beyond the visual range of sight, firing a salvo of AASM -- the new GPS French bomb - Landed on the targets detected and recalls during the mission, before landing ... all in one hour of simulated flight.

The two Indian officers were able to see the realism of the Rafale simulator, using this two-seater flight tested what they had learned in less than a day.

They left the Fighter Squadron 1 / 7 amased by how easy our plane is and gave a smile ...

 

[Mahakaya]

Guys a lil off topic - But they are showing the making of "TYPHOON" on THE HISTORY CHANNEL NOW!

 

[sancho]

Ce jeudi deux officiers indiens ont volé sur Rafale... - capitaine-romain


This Thursday, two Indian officers have flown in Rafale

Saturday, 20 March, 2010

This Thursday, March 18, two Indian officers were able to explore and test by themselves all the qualities of the Rafale.

After a morning briefing the Indian pilot -- very experienced pilot on board a plane just for him - Could take off in his Rafale, intercept and identify a fighterr with optical sighting of Rafale, engage multiple targets air-sourced located beyond the visual range of sight, firing a salvo of AASM -- the new GPS French bomb - Landed on the targets detected and recalls during the mission, before landing ... all in one hour of simulated flight.

The two Indian officers were able to see the realism of the Rafale simulator, using this two-seater flight tested what they had learned in less than a day.

They left the Fighter Squadron 1 / 7 amased by how easy our plane is and gave a smile ...

Great, that should only add the good view of French fighters in IAF! If it won't be a political decision, I can't see another winner than the Rafale!

 

[Dark Angel]

Great, that should only add the good view of French fighters in IAF! If it won't be a political decision, I can't see another winner than the Rafale!

well my man as u have supported rafale with such passion if it gets selected u will have to treat all of us

 

[sancho]

well my man as u have supported rafale with such passion if it gets selected u will have to treat all of us

Hehe, you wish!
I only want the fighter, that is the best choice for India (from all points of view) and if that would be the EF, I would love to see EF in Indian colors, but imo the best choice is Rafale that's all.

 

[Raje amar]

grate man i love Rafel. Dont know whether our babus in MoD has the similar opinion.

 

[Dash]

Rafale - Relatively Sasta, sundar aur tikau... can well protect..kapdaa, roti and Makaan for all Indians in times to come!!!

 

[MIG_ACE]

Four MMRCA contenders fail Leh trials

This should narrow the field down.

My guesses.

Since the Mig-35 is basically a Mig-29 with a new name and I'm sure IAF's Mig-29s have been tested at Leh, the Mig-35 cannot have failed.

Secondly, the LCA did pretty well when they tested it at Leh. The Gripen uses the same engine (atleast the D version they sent to India for the trials. the NG will use the GE-F414 instead of the 404). The Gripen is similar in weight as well to the LCA. So the gRIPEN can't fail either. So they rest have failed.

 

[Indian-Devil]

Rafael is good option besides its engine is uprated to minimum 85-90kN, Its really a deadly platform which can outperform all the neighbour threats. And there is no issue with TOT, besides french donot repeat the same thing which they did in Scorpene Deal.

India should not settle except Rafael or Typhoon. Chances are more with Rafael except MOD babus get something from Unkle.

 

[RadyLeo]

Vendors May Get To Revise Indian Fighter Bids

NEW DELHI — As field trials for India’s 126-aircraft Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) draw to a close, vendors vying for the program could get the opportunity to revise their pricing.

The Saab Gripen is completing its final field trials in Leh, while the Eurofighter is due to start weapons and other equipment tests as part of the third phase of trials in the U.K. and Germany next month. Those trials are scheduled to be completed on April 29.

However, this would mean that India will have officially missed the April 28 decision deadline set for the competition.Effectively, this means that vendors can now reprice and revise their bids, since the request for proposals says commercial offers are valid for two years from the date of submission (which was March 28, 2008), and after that date bidding can be reopened for those vendors shortlisted after technical trials and evaluation.

The six bidders are Sukhoi’s MiG-35, Dassault’s Rafale, Eurofighter, Saab’s Gripen, Boeing’s F/A-18E/F and Lockheed Martin’s F-16.

Once all trials are completed, it will take two months of tabulation and then submission to the Defense Ministry, an air force spokesman told Aviation Week. One original equipment manufacturer (OEM) says it is likely the procedure would take place only in September.

Some vendors have expressed concern that the MMRCA project will be dependent on the political and economical situation, and may take more time for clearance, barring unforeseen circumstances like a security challenge.

“We do hope the process moves faster,” one OEM executive said. “However, we feel it might take time until India’s economy starts on a growth track of approximately 10 percent [gross domestic product], so that politicians can justify the expenditure to their political counterparts.”

While the Ministry has not yet commented on the possibility of repricing, vendors’ opinions on the prospect vary.
“We will redefine our bid, which will be cheaper than the one we submitted two years ago, as we were not as smart then as we are now,” one vendor said, declining to be identified. “We are more competitive and stronger now.”

Another commented, “Technical evaluation is an air force matter. We will try and ensure we hit all wickets. We haven’t made a decision on repricing.” “This, of course, presupposes that the repricing will be called for,” another vendor noted.

And another OEM added that currency fluctuation over the past two years will be another factor to consider.

 

[hembo]

Guys a lil off topic - But they are showing the making of "TYPHOON" on THE HISTORY CHANNEL NOW!

If it's on the HISTORY channel, I think it's better not to go for it as we are looking for a futuristic AC, not a historical one... lol

 

[Mahakaya]

Hi guys,

I have hypothesis that it will be either Typhoon or Raphale that India will buy. It will be great to have the members' thoughts on this as I understand it is not an air tight argument. Will be great if the more learned ones can share their thoughts so that probably we can build a consensus on which plane could India buy out of the 6 contenders.

I am not sure carrier based platforms have any bearing on the MMRCA anymore. The reason I say this is because India just ordered a squadron of Mig 29K from Russia and then on Vladmir Putin's visit another order was placed with the Russians for more Mig 29Ks. Further, the navy has already infused 900 crores in the Naval LCA and chances are that the bird will fly by the end of this year. So since we already have made investments in the Naval platforms I don't think the planes with naval variants will have an edge or any bearing on the competition.

Now at max we can/should not support more than 3 different platforms >>>> if we do>>>>extra costs of training and building the infrastructure. As of now, the implications of the deal with Russians for Mig 29K can have 2 implications:

1. We might just go for Mig-35 since we will have the infrastructure ready and training might not be a problem.

2. The deal is just to placate the Russians to justify that we will not be going in for the Mig-35 (This is what my gut feeling says)

If the 2nd scenario is true and in the light of above information if it makes sense (sure does to me cos 4 platforms might be stretching it a bit too much), Mig 35 is out.

Gripen offers no real geopolitical benefits so Gripen is out too.

That leaves us with:

1. Typhoon
2. Raphale
3. F-18 SH
4. F-16 IN

I would also take out the F-16s cos of the obvious reasons. On the other hand in the wake of the recent remarks by the Indians on F-16s being supplied to the US, it seems that the USofA has ruffled the feathers of some big wigs in the MoD and the AF, obviously exposing their double standards. So I would also take out the F-18s here.

That leaves us with two alternatives the Typhoon and Raphale. Now we do have a french platform already running with us - which gives us more confidence in their latest platform. The Typhoon is an amazing bird and I personally want it to win.

The point by the end of it is:

It may just be Rphale or Typhoon - but right now there is not enough info to make inferences:

Typhoon - It might go the typhoon way if we buy the EJ 200 for the Tejas

Raphale - It might go the Raphale way since we already have a french platform running.

We actually have 4 platforms right now with the British/French Jags and BAE Harriers but then again if we chose the Raphale then we cut the platforms to 3.

Indian - Tejas, MCA
Russian - SU 30 MKI, Mig 29 Ks, Mig 21 Bis, PAKFA/FGFA
French - Mirage and Raphale

On the other hand if we chose the Typhoon then we can just take off the Raphale from top and add another platform with Typhoon i.e. 4 platforms in all, which is what we have right now and has worked well so far.

SO in my opinion it could be a call between the Raphale and the Typhoon with odds favoring the Typhoon.

Members please feel free to correct me or add more to this!

 

[Mahakaya]

If it's on the HISTORY channel, I think it's better not to go for it as we are looking for a futuristic AC, not a historical one... lol

HAHAHAHAHAH!

Good one!

 

[sancho]

Four MMRCA contenders fail Leh trials

This should narrow the field down.

My guesses.

Since the Mig-35 is basically a Mig-29 with a new name and I'm sure IAF's Mig-29s have been tested at Leh, the Mig-35 cannot have failed.

Secondly, the LCA did pretty well when they tested it at Leh. The Gripen uses the same engine (atleast the D version they sent to India for the trials. the NG will use the GE-F414 instead of the 404). The Gripen is similar in weight as well to the LCA. So the gRIPEN can't fail either. So they rest have failed.

First of all, nobody has failed, they just needed some modifications on the fuel system, which should not have anything to do with the T/W ratio. Secondly this was reported before the Gripen started the tests there, so 4 of the 5 contenders, that entered trials before had problems. I agree that the Mig 35 should have past, because it uses only a modernised version of the same RD33 engine that our Mig 29 has.

 

[sancho]

I am not sure carrier based platforms have any bearing on the MMRCA anymore. The reason I say this is because India just ordered a squadron of Mig 29K from Russia and then on Vladmir Putin's visit another order was placed with the Russians for more Mig 29Ks. Further, the navy has already infused 900 crores in the Naval LCA and chances are that the bird will fly by the end of this year. So since we already have made investments in the Naval platforms I don't think the planes with naval variants will have an edge or any bearing on the competition.

Hi Mahakaya, the first order of Mig 29K was a combined deal with Gorshkov carrier and we already building our own Vikrant class carrier, which will have the same STOBAR design like Gorshkov, so it is logical that we use the same combo with N-LCA there too. For the limited use in sea control and air defense role, this combo will be capable enough and no costlier N-MMRCA is needed now.
but this will change when the next class of bigger carriers will arrive at the end of the decade, which is aimed on blue water operations far away from Indias costline and if necessary, projecting power to other places. Therefore IN will need a much better combo and where N-MMRCAs could be interesting again.

IN send out an RFI to several vendors to get a better picture about the capabilities of actual and possible carrier fighters and if IAF goes for a fighter that has a good carrier version for IN future carriers too, they could simply add their order and could reduce the costs dramatically.

Regarding MMRCA, imo we can rule out F16IN and Mig 35 for sure, the first gives simply not enough advantages over PAFs F16s, the latter offers nearly nothing new to IAF, that they don't have already through MKI.

The faith of EF will be decided by it's improvementes in the A2G role, because till now it is mainly an air superiority fighter only and IAF don't need the same capabilities that MKI, or FGFA will offer again. So if it offer us advantages in other roles and fields that makes the highest costs worth it, it would be a great addition of course.

IMO the only real options will be Gripen NG as the choice of the finance ministry, because it is the most cost-effective fighter.

The F18SH as the choice of GoI/MoD, for political and possibly strategic reasons.

The Rafale as the choice of IAF/IN, because it offers the most advantages in terms of capabilities, commonality to present IAF fleet, independance, customisations and integration of indigenous techs, as well as future potential for IAF and IN.

The point by the end of it is:

It may just be Rphale or Typhoon - but right now there is not enough info to make inferences

Maybe this helps:

EF weapon configs:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/700461-post114.html


Rafale weapon configs and capabilities:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/682636-post1364.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/682646-post1365.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/682658-post1366.html