How can Pakistan counter India’s ABM system?

[The Deterrent]

Don't Include China here..... the BMD of US is capable enough to take care of a a couple of hundred of ICBMs which China would possibly launch against it.... Russia was and continues to be the main threat here since it has 1000s of BMs in ready to launch positions.

You seem to over-estimate American BMD capabilities way too much...here are direct quotes from US DoD Ballistic Missile Defence Report...

Strategy And Policy Framework (Page 12)

Missile Defense: Deterrence,Extended Deterrence and Assurance Goals

Both Russia and China have expressed concerns that US missile defenses adversely affect their own strategic capabilities and interests.US will continue to engage them on this issue to help them better understand the stabilizing benefits of missile defense--- particularly China,which claims to have successfully demonstrated its own ground-based midcourse interception on January 11,2010.As the US has stated in the past,the homeland defense capabilities are focused on regional actors such as Iran and North Korea.While the GMD system would be employed to defend the US against limited missile launches from any source,it does not have the capacity to cope with large scale Russian or Chinese missile attacks,ad is not intended to affect the strategic balance with those countries.

 

[Windjammer]

Its silly that you consider an unoperational Quasi-BM as an answer to the rapid thrust of 3 Mechanized Divisions well supported by AF and Navy......

The current ABM is just a building block or 1st step towards a bigger threat.... i.e. China....

These ABM systems are manual aswell as automatic... and functions spontaneously on the detection of any threat.... what you don't realize is the advantage the close distance offers.... making any launch detectable in boost phase only and intercepting it right there in the most vulnerable stage aswell... hence not allowing any such missile enter the space in 1st place.... Remember Swordfish latest variant can detect and track targets as small as a cricket ball at 1500km.... Not to mention a secret Radar project which would operate in X-band and have capability to detect a Football size target at 4000km aswell.... Besides satellite detection... Very less window remains there for any Pakistani BM to enter space.... hence BM is not the option after 2020.... Its =Fail in the scenario you have mentioned.

Well, isn't it also silly to assume that a decade from now, Pakistan will only field the current generation of BMs, technology evolves, .... man makes aircraft.....man makes radars......and man makes SAMs, yet the aircraft still manages to penetrate, now we are faced with the Stealth evolution.

 

[The Deterrent]

Yes but after the rapid thrust during 1998-2004 period we are yet to see any considerable development.... Nasr etc.... are just for public amusement and propaganda to give them assurance

Babur GLCM,Ra'ad ALCM,Nasr were all introduced after 2004.

Yet to introduce are the proposed Shaheen-III,Babur SLCM (these projects are known).

About the previous missiles....upgraded versions of all of them are being inducted (older ones being retired)...
As Dr. Samar said about version 2 of Shaheen-I.Similarly upgraded versions of Abdali (assumed by comparison new test pictures with old),Ghaznavi (aero-spike introduction,Terminal Correction System),Ghauri-II (new ReV designed by NDC,NESCOM),Shaheen-II(including counter-measures suite,MaRV)...

 

[RockyX]

Well, isn't it also silly to assume that a decade from now, Pakistan will only field the current generation of BMs, technology evolves, .... man makes aircraft.....man makes radars......and man makes SAMs, yet the aircraft still manages to penetrate, now we are faced with the Stealth evolution.

There are latest Spy Satellite too which will do rest of the Job to detect if missed by radars. We didn't had Spy satellite few years back. Still, we are planning to launch more with even better technology. So there is always improvement in technology as per new threat.

As per Stealth Aircraft after 2017, Difficult to say. But there must be some technology to detect and kill. I think, modern Spy Satellite will be helpful. Anyway, we will have all Stealth Aircraft to ABM. Even Stealth Hypersonic Missile. let see what is stored in future.

 

[The Deterrent]

The Multiple-Kill Vehicle project has been dropped,owing to the high costs and impractical design...It was aimed at China and Russia.

Since MKV will fail to protect US mainland from any Chinese/Russian attack,so it is useless to waste money on it,According to the latest report on BMD by US Department of Defence.

Instead,US aims to co-operate with Russia and possibly China to share information and detection structure on Ballistic Missile Threat from states like Iran and North Korea.

Practically,the BMD of USA is against Iran and North Korea only.Against Russia/China,MAD is the deterrent.

Here is the direct quote from DoD BMDR...

Policy Priorities

... Fourth,the commitment to new capabilities must be fiscally sustainable over the long term.The President has made clear that US will move forward with missile defenses that are affordable,proven and responsive to the threat.This primarily means that the DoD will realign spending away from defenses planned to rely on currently immature technology,away from technologies that require unrealistic concepts of operations to be effective,and away from technologies intended to defeat adversarial threats that do not exist and are not expected to evolve in near to midterm.
These considerations led to the decisions to terminate both the Multiple Kill Vehicle and Kinetic Energy Interceptor programs and to shift the Airborne Laser to a technology demonstrator program in the FY 2010 budget.

---------- Post added at 01:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:58 PM ----------

There are latest Spy Satellite too which will do rest of the Job to detect if missed by radars. We didn't had Spy satellite few years back. Still, we are planning to launch more with even better technology. So there is always improvement in technology as per new threat.

As per Stealth Aircraft after 2017, Difficult to say. But there must be some technology to detect and kill. I think, modern Spy Satellite will be helpful. Anyway, we will have all Stealth Aircraft to ABM. Even Stealth Hypersonic Missile. let see what is stored in future.

Too much talk of the future by Indians...why not talk of the present or near future?

 

[RockyX]

Here is the direct quote from DoD BMDR...



---------- Post added at 01:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:58 PM ----------

[/COLOR]

Too much talk of the future by Indians...why not talk of the present or near future?

Talk about present. We still have advantage.

 

[DARKY]

Well, isn't it also silly to assume that a decade from now, Pakistan will only field the current generation of BMs, technology evolves, .... man makes aircraft.....man makes radars......and man makes SAMs, yet the aircraft still manages to penetrate, now we are faced with the Stealth evolution.

Satellite detection is nothing new.... BM can be detected via satellite... and I would mention here that whole of Pakistan and Arabian sea would be under the envelop of such satellites by 2014-15...... about radars yes... the Radars which I mentioned are being developed and would be fully operational only after 2017.

There are some holes left in every technology..... nothing is full proof however we cannot bank on such traces of holes.... which is very hard to find and get through..... as I said earlier the best possible solution for the scenario presented by ABMs is making more and more nukes and BMs numbering in 1000s to overwhelm the ABM defenses.... still an answer remains here for such an attack by a swarm of BM.... SCALAR shields and High Energy weapons..... like LASER or KALI.

 

[DARKY]

You seem to over-estimate American BMD capabilities way too much...here are direct quotes from US DoD Ballistic Missile Defence Report...

Don't try to quote any report from US they usually publish such reports to have a some more $$ for their projects..... US ABM system is very large and includes infra-red based detection method along with satellites and Radar detections... they support ABMs on a large array of platform including airborne and space based ones.... Their defenses against China starts from the yellow sea itself.

 

[The Deterrent]

Talk about present. We still have advantage.

Again...

Direct comparison never leads to a realistic approach...you have to consider the requirements and preferences...

Here,Pakistan's aim is to keep a (so-called) minimum deterrence level,so that India always remains vulnerable to a Pakistani nuclear attack (first-strike)...Pakistan does not cares about its own existence in such a case,since the first-strike nuclear threat will prevent any Indo-Pak war.

India's aim is to protect its country...so that they continue developing economy and become a major power...any danger of an Indo-Pak war will push India back by decades...

---------- Post added at 02:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:19 PM ----------

Don't try to quote any report from US they usually publish such reports to have a some more $$ for their projects..... US ABM system is very large and includes infra-red based detection method along with satellites and Radar detections... they support ABMs on a large array of platform including airborne and space based ones.... Their defenses against China starts from the yellow sea itself.

Dude you are just putting it in the dustbin...

You have less knowledge of the subject...There were two Boeing YAL-1 Air-borne laser aircrafts built...Both have been declared TDs...There is no space-based system.The Brilliant Pebbles project was cancelled a long while ago.

 

[DARKY]

Babur GLCM,Ra'ad ALCM,Nasr were all introduced after 2004.

Yet to introduce are the proposed Shaheen-III,Babur SLCM (these projects are known).

About the previous missiles....upgraded versions of all of them are being inducted (older ones being retired)...
As Dr. Samar said about version 2 of Shaheen-I.Similarly upgraded versions of Abdali (assumed by comparison new test pictures with old),Ghaznavi (aero-spike introduction,Terminal Correction System),Ghauri-II (new ReV designed by NDC,NESCOM),Shaheen-II(including counter-measures suite,MaRV)...

See Babur, Ra'ad, aswell as Nasr are all tactical missiles.....

Now taking of Shaheen III and other BM we are yet to see any thing happening.... I would love to see new technologies being tested on the newer BMs rather than the same old longer in length version of M-11 or Scud rockets.....

 

[DARKY]

Dude you are just putting it in the dustbin...

You have less knowledge of the subject...There were two Boeing YAL-1 Air-borne laser aircrafts built...Both have been declared TDs...There is no space-based system.The Brilliant Pebbles project was cancelled a long while ago.

Yes we are told they were cancelled but they have the capability.... what I said was we are only shown the tip of Ice berg in such a costly BMD program.

 

[The Deterrent]

ABM is not point missile but range. AAD/PDV will cover 1,500-2,000 KM 360 degree so 3,000-4,000KM. So, Kashmir to Mumbai if deployed at Delhi. (Delhi will be centre of 3,000-4,000 KM border of Pakistan)

Also PDV will replace PAD in 2014.

I think I got now what you were saying...

Dude,the ABM system based in Delhi will protect the city from a missile having 2000km range,launched from anywhere....This does not mean that it will also intercept missiles targeted towards other areas.

 

[The Deterrent]

See Babur, Ra'ad, aswell as Nasr are all tactical missiles.....

Now taking of Shaheen III and other BM we are yet to see any thing happening.... I would love to see new technologies being tested on the newer BMs rather than the same old longer in length version of M-11 or Scud rockets.....

The same old ..."longer in length version of Scud"

Why make a new missile having characteristics of Ghaznavi missile (for example) when it can be upgraded and can accept new technology?

Just because we don't announce things like DRDO does,does not mean that we don't have projects in the pipelines...

 

[DARKY]

Again...

Direct comparison never leads to a realistic approach...you have to consider the requirements and preferences...

Here,Pakistan's aim is to keep a (so-called) minimum deterrence level,so that India always remains vulnerable to a Pakistani nuclear attack (first-strike)...Pakistan does not cares about its own existence in such a case,since the first-strike nuclear threat will prevent any Indo-Pak war.

India's aim is to protect its country...so that they continue developing economy and become a major power...any danger of an Indo-Pak war will push India back by decades...

No Country in the world would want its people to be in danger of any Nuclear retaliation attack by a country who is more powerful and posses Thermonuclear weapons.

Any 1st strike=Total destruction of Pakistan.... nothing would be spared.... this would be like giving a license or like.... putting your head on the block and handing your enemy the sword.

Pakistan's aim is also to protect its people and resources..... I still believe it has similar goals... as I think it would be too early to call it a failed state or terrorist state.... and any large scale war would push it back in stone age no mercy on that note....

 

[DARKY]

The same old ..."longer in length version of Scud"

Why make a new missile having characteristics of Ghaznavi missile (for example) when it can be upgraded and can accept new technology?

Just because we don't announce things like DRDO does,does not mean that we don't have projects in the pipelines...

At least test and show them.....
We tested Agni IIP, Agni III, K-X, K-15, Shuraya, after your last tests of Gauri and Shaheen series missiles and would test Agni V in a few months.....
Besides concentrating our resources in BMD and SAM, AAM systems along with CM systems.